Just because you haven't heard of it happening very much doesn't mean it isn't a common occurance. There are millions of people around the world dying from diseases such as cancer and AIDS. Even if only 1% killed themselves, that's still a lot of people. "Hell" is a subjective term, but I can almost guarantee that you've never suffered the same way these people have. If you did, you'd realize that being a "pussy" doesn't factor into the equation.
Why do people think that suicide is wrong?
- Thread starter coolfighter1993
- Start date
I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather and father. My mother suffered from ovarian cancer for over 14 years. She was the kindest, strongest, and most intelligent person I've ever known. Towards the end of her life, I could tell that she had resigned to her fate. I'd wake up in the middle of the night and hear her crying while she was throwing up in the toilet. In the last month of her life she was in a medically induced coma...the chemo therapy had severely poisoned her entire body. The only time she "woke up" was to cry because of the horrible pain she was in. Fortunately, she finally passed away. That was probably the saddest day of my life and also one of the happiest, because I knew that she didn't have to suffer any longer.
I respect anyone who fights a terminal illness to their dying breath, but I equally respect those who chose to end their own lives.
0VincentRayne0
Faith
I know what you meant by "hell" and once or twice a year I get to live through this "hell" btw. I just happen to have the worst type of headache you can get. even women say that the pain is worse that giving birth and it last for 2 straight hours at least once to three times a day. i know that it's probably not as bad as what some other people get but you said I have no clue and I know I do. this is all personal preference and opinion anyway. I know I wouldn't kill myself ever. if my hands got cut off through some accident and that means I can't play any instruments, can't draw, type, or play games, etc (because I love doing things creative which involve use of hands) I would only then consider having a friend stick a drug in my IV and let me die but that's only if I'm not married or have the support of my family or friends, which I do. so even then me dying when it's not my time is out of the question. that would be selfish on my end. I have people that care about me and I wouldn't want to do the worse thing I can do to them by offing myself.
Once again, you're making an assumption based off of your personal experiences. Having painful headaches a couple times a year doesn't compare to being in so much pain that you can't even function as a normal person. Everyone experiences pain in varying degrees, but few will ever approach the level of suffering these people go through. Even the toughest person on Earth has their breaking point, a time when they will say 'enough is enough.' If you couldn't even go to the bathroom on your own, which is downright humiliating, you might reconsider your stance the subject. Now imagine living like this day after day, for years on end. Many of these people love life just as much as any of us do. They've fought the good fight and just want to rest after a long struggle. Their families may even support their decision.
I appreciate your strong will to live, which is admirable, but try to see it from someone else's point of view. Death isn't such a bad thing, after all, it's just the beginning of another journey.
I appreciate your strong will to live, which is admirable, but try to see it from someone else's point of view. Death isn't such a bad thing, after all, it's just the beginning of another journey.
0VincentRayne0
Faith
i already clarified that my experience probably didn't amount to whom you were referring to and I already said that my opinions were of my own preference. no one can say whether suicide is ultimately right or wrong because when it comes down to it, it is only a matter of people's opinion. you think death is the start of another journey. some people think that it is the end and afterwards is just completely nothingness. others state that if death is by suicide then you either go to hell (or some other place of suffering) or you're reincarnated into a fly or something. no one can say if suicide is the correct decision, even if they're the person doing it. but they/we can say whether we think it's right or wrong though.
btw I was thinking of myself in the other person's shoes. hence the hand cut off scenario.
Saying whether something is right or wrong could be considered irrelevant. Your definition of right probably differs from mine, hence, we will never come to a solid conclusion. I'm talking about what is necessary. There is a world of difference between the two subjects. Religious beliefs aside, I don't see the point of suffering through agony when I can rest in peace. If I'm an atheist, why should I be judged by someone of a different religion for wanting to bring an end to my pain?
By the way, didn't the Catholic Church recently announce that if you commit suicide you won't go to hell/stay in limbo? I think that's pretty interesting and I wonder what brought about that change, if it's true.
By the way, didn't the Catholic Church recently announce that if you commit suicide you won't go to hell/stay in limbo? I think that's pretty interesting and I wonder what brought about that change, if it's true.
0VincentRayne0
Faith
i don't know the answer to your question. i'm not associated with the Catholic Church and had no idea this happened. and the thing about what is "necessary" is also a blurred term as well. it's no difference than the right or wrong equation. what you deem is necessary may differ than me and both of our views may differ from the third party. i keep saying that we believe what/how something should be in our eyes. so we can only speak for ourselves. can't speak for the people that want or thought or won't commit suicide because it is different in every case and in every case there is a different mind with a different view of how they see things.
I agree that our terms of "necessary" may be blurred and I'm speaking from the perspective of the person who is suffering. I believe their version of what is necessary is clearer than ours, for obvious reasons. But, I also think we can agree that neither of us have a right to label these people as "pussies." I certainly wouldn't label you as such if you were suffering from an extreme headache and begged for pain medication. Some people who are suffering from a terminal illness are simply too poor to afford medication, or they live in a region of the world were such opportunities are not readily available. We owe it to these people to honor their wishes, just as we would hope that they would honor ours.
0VincentRayne0
Faith
I do agree that I was out of line for saying that. normally don't slip like that. and I wish i could take pain medication but unfortunately pain medication takes a good little while to kick in and with my headache they come in too suddenly for it to work. so I have to resort to taking pain medication before I go to bed and when I wake up in the mornings then I might be able to give them the slip. it's funny because doctors couldn't diagnose it but my grandmother came across a page that described exactly how I told her my headaches felt. had these things for years and a couple of weeks ago I find out what it is. go figure. but enough about me...
MysticBoudha
[10] Knight
Personally i think that suicide isn't something we should judge. First of all every suicide has different reasons and motives, what everyone goes through and how everyone experiences life is different. Judging suicide is in my opinion trying to elevate yourself as a higher existence.
Every human is different and life doesn't make us equal. Some of us are more intelligent some have stronger will, some are more sensible. some are more talented in some areas, some are physically or mentally stronger than others.
Which is why i totally disagree with the idea of judging suicide. Since we are all different and some of us are stronger than others we all see things differently at some point but that is only our own reality. And since we all have different realities, nothing is absolute.
Those of you saying that suicide is weak or bad or selfish are in a way saying that this would be how you would feel committing suicide. It is your own take on your own reality and not the reality of the person who committed suicide. It probably means you are a mentally strong person. Good for you i'm like that too which is why i once thought the same thing. ( That suicide is weak and self-centered ) But as i grew as a person with time and experience i started to see things differently. Suicide is the best solution a person came up with at a certain point in his own life. Its a choice that person made to end his suffering. It isn't anybody's business besides the person doing it.
Being hurt when someone you loved committed suicide is perfectly normal and justified but judging him for doing so is SO wrong and is a lot more self-centered than committing suicide. Lets be honest, very few persons will say to themselves hey you were my best friend but since you committed suicide now you are just some weak little shit.
The other option is judging people who you don't even care about or know for that matter. Now this IMO is more than wrong its complete non-sense and denial of your true nature unless you really are a truly pathetic individual which is rarely the case. To the ones thinking like this i'll say only one thing. If you think that someone you don't know is a stupid, self-centered individual because he committed suicide and that he makes all the people around him suffer, would you be able to go see is mother for example and say: Hey i'm sorry your son or your daughter was a stupid self-centered person who didn't care about how you would feel. Probably no one here would say this.
With all this said, i think its truly important to accept that everyone is different and has a different reality before questioning a choice they make. I also think that even if suicide could be interpreted as weak , as a strong person we should help people get stronger instead of judging people who can be weaker on certain parts of their nature.
Suicide is a sad thing and that's all there is to it.
Every human is different and life doesn't make us equal. Some of us are more intelligent some have stronger will, some are more sensible. some are more talented in some areas, some are physically or mentally stronger than others.
Which is why i totally disagree with the idea of judging suicide. Since we are all different and some of us are stronger than others we all see things differently at some point but that is only our own reality. And since we all have different realities, nothing is absolute.
Those of you saying that suicide is weak or bad or selfish are in a way saying that this would be how you would feel committing suicide. It is your own take on your own reality and not the reality of the person who committed suicide. It probably means you are a mentally strong person. Good for you i'm like that too which is why i once thought the same thing. ( That suicide is weak and self-centered ) But as i grew as a person with time and experience i started to see things differently. Suicide is the best solution a person came up with at a certain point in his own life. Its a choice that person made to end his suffering. It isn't anybody's business besides the person doing it.
Being hurt when someone you loved committed suicide is perfectly normal and justified but judging him for doing so is SO wrong and is a lot more self-centered than committing suicide. Lets be honest, very few persons will say to themselves hey you were my best friend but since you committed suicide now you are just some weak little shit.
The other option is judging people who you don't even care about or know for that matter. Now this IMO is more than wrong its complete non-sense and denial of your true nature unless you really are a truly pathetic individual which is rarely the case. To the ones thinking like this i'll say only one thing. If you think that someone you don't know is a stupid, self-centered individual because he committed suicide and that he makes all the people around him suffer, would you be able to go see is mother for example and say: Hey i'm sorry your son or your daughter was a stupid self-centered person who didn't care about how you would feel. Probably no one here would say this.
With all this said, i think its truly important to accept that everyone is different and has a different reality before questioning a choice they make. I also think that even if suicide could be interpreted as weak , as a strong person we should help people get stronger instead of judging people who can be weaker on certain parts of their nature.
Suicide is a sad thing and that's all there is to it.
Madnis
[12] Conqueror
"Death is so final. Whereas life, ah life is so full of possibilities." it is known.
Alpha
[12] Conqueror
I know it's painful to think about. I've thought about it a few times, not giving a damn who gets hurt because I was hurting as well. It's a horrible thought process that some humans undergo. Some of you say it's dumb and people need to get over themselves and some say that they're sympathetic. Everyone has their own opinions.
I had thoughts of committing suicide, it sucked. I kept remembering something I heard in a song. It was by Gangstarr, he said "Dark clouds over my head, my heart's racin Suicide? nah, I'm not a foolish guy". That has always drove me to aim higher and better.
Why did i think of it? I hated myself, sometimes I still do. Why? Stupid high school shit and other home probs.
You know what? Fuck suicide... Live your life.
I had thoughts of committing suicide, it sucked. I kept remembering something I heard in a song. It was by Gangstarr, he said "Dark clouds over my head, my heart's racin Suicide? nah, I'm not a foolish guy". That has always drove me to aim higher and better.
Why did i think of it? I hated myself, sometimes I still do. Why? Stupid high school shit and other home probs.
You know what? Fuck suicide... Live your life.
Lasercakes
[12] Conqueror
"It's taking the easy way out", "It's selfish", "It's looking for attention", "I will think you are a pussy", etc are not ethical arguments. They still don't answer the question: "Is suicide ethical?" I don't think anyone has come close to addressing this correctly and I don't think the regulars of 8wayrun are qualified to do it.
I don't know what you're trying to say exactly, but for the sake of theists and atheists, I'm going to say you can't just make that sweeping generalization.
0VincentRayne0
Faith
this question was already answered though. well by a couple of people anyway. me and nasty in a detailed conversation. Mystic did too. all we can do is state our opinions. is that what you were looking for?
acefrost
[12] Conqueror
"Completely depends on the reasons" I honestly think that is the only realistic answer someone can give.
Lasercakes
[12] Conqueror
I suppose you're right. I misread the original post, leaving a word out. I read it as "Do people think that suicide is wrong?"
No, I was looking for a formal argument because I'm an asshole. Talking about how suicide makes you and others feel is not an argument for why suicide is wrong, but I suppose it is more relevant to what the original post in the thread was asking.
No. I do not believe the question in the form I asked it was answered.
I do not believe in a moral universe where moral truths exist exactly, but I can still respect a well built argument even if I did not agree with it. But I don't see any arguments like that. I don't see any solid or interesting arguments for suicide as acceptable or not.
Let me use the statements I picked in my last post to show you how everything talked about fails to connect to an ethical argument. Let's say for an example that all people committing suicide are irrefutably pussies, cowards, looking for attention, and taking the easy way out. Even if all of that is true, it doesn't touch upon why suicide is unethical unless:
- Being a pussy is unethical
- Being a coward is unethical
- Looking for attention is unethical
- Doing things the easy way is unethical
Do I need to explain why these fail as ethical arguments?
Additionally:
That you can have an illness and not kill yourself is not an ethical argument against someone who does.
That you can suffer and not kill yourself is not an ethical argument against someone who does.
But anyway, I don't think this is all too important, since the thread is about people's perceptions on why it's wrong, and not on if it can be objectively be argued wrong.
Mamoru_Hasukage
[10] Knight
Wrong? It all depends on what you think.
I believe in a very odd way of Bushido. I am a man who holds honor and loyalty above all else. However, I personally see killing yourself as a disrespectful and cowardly way to die. I see it as one not respecting the gift of life they were granted and shun what they can do with that said life. A gift by whom? No one.
Life is your blade. You fight, until it breaks. That is my way of life.
However, I am not one to say another's way of life is wrong either. I know not why this subject was brought up, however, I do know this: Whatever life throws at you, do your best to make the most of it by any means possible (aside from the ones that would land you a worse life, or death of someone) and only then contemplate the thought of ending your life.
If one feels it is the best way, so be it. Let them. Just so long as you do not drag others who still wish to live with you, I have no objections.
I believe in a very odd way of Bushido. I am a man who holds honor and loyalty above all else. However, I personally see killing yourself as a disrespectful and cowardly way to die. I see it as one not respecting the gift of life they were granted and shun what they can do with that said life. A gift by whom? No one.
Life is your blade. You fight, until it breaks. That is my way of life.
However, I am not one to say another's way of life is wrong either. I know not why this subject was brought up, however, I do know this: Whatever life throws at you, do your best to make the most of it by any means possible (aside from the ones that would land you a worse life, or death of someone) and only then contemplate the thought of ending your life.
If one feels it is the best way, so be it. Let them. Just so long as you do not drag others who still wish to live with you, I have no objections.
TerminatorCortez
[10] Knight
killing yourself for emotional distress or bullying is plain stupid. Before you go kill yourself go to your local hospital and go to the sick children department. You will start crying and value your life. I went there to visit a friend in grade school who passed away, it made me realize how lucky I am to be alive. Poor dude never got the chance to see HD TvS, Nintendo wiis, iPhones, and act. And tbh, why kill yourself when you know your going to die one day.