Why the hate?
- Thread starter Kilik_21
- Start date
kaminari616
[08] Mercenary
Kilik + noob and/or ultra high-rank doosh-bag = Spam
He is overpowered, overused and needs a serious toning down.
Kilik spamming has to STOP. Period
He is overpowered, overused and needs a serious toning down.
Kilik spamming has to STOP. Period
sephalump
Video games kill people
You could really say that about any character, and I don't play killik so please dont suggest that's why I'm defending him.
Edit because my phone auto corrected killik to killing my first time
Senzait
Steamed Buns!!
Obviously your referring to online play. Kilik need a minor nerf, he is probably the worst of the high tiers. And spamming doesn't work offline against decent opponents. But I do agree that online he can be frustrating at times.
when you say worst of the high tiers, you mean worst as in poorest or worst as in most unbalanced? I think he may be the top character in the game (excluded banned characters, and possibly along with Ivy), I feel like he is slightly stronger than Voldo or Amy. His evasion/reverse-mixup at mid-range is disgusting, 1B counters like 90% of Amy or Voldo's moveset, does a ton of damage, and is hard for either character to do more than chip punish. Asura is also not completely trivial to punish, it is hit confirmable and thus on block you can vary completing it versus not completing it to discourage your opponent's punish. Online it is basically impossible to punish Asura for this reason, against a smart player. Then on top of it, Asura JF does 80 damage. Almost nobody can punish Asura for 80 damage, so the statement that the Asura punishes do more damage than Asura is just false.
I hate Kilik because I play a lot online, and even played legitimately Kilik (along with Ivy) get absurd boosts.
I hate Kilik because I play a lot online, and even played legitimately Kilik (along with Ivy) get absurd boosts.
CassSophFan
A Young Lady Longing For Adventure
Because most spammers use him. 'Nuff said.:P
sephalump
Video games kill people
Lol legitimately played Voldo gets an even bigger boost considering the common agreement that aggression is boosted online and Voldo does good damage and SG damage too. His only big weakness is he's linear, good luck stepping online especially with the threat of CH 3A which is hard to realize you've been hit by then shake the stun off in time for follow ups. Killik's punishment isn't that terrifying, and his step kill options aren't that scary either. WS B has a decent sized whiff recovery. I used to be under the misconception "ohhhhhh he's too good killik is broke as hell" but played off line and got advice on him. 1B is too safe for what it does but is still -16. Asura can be countered by highs, I think body attacks, and "thrust attacks". Is he deserving of a nerf, sure. But people exaggerate him.
Senzait
Steamed Buns!!
Kilik is not stronger than Amy or Voldo.... and I meant he is the poorest of the high tiers.
1B is great, BUT its unsafe even on hit, and only does solid damage on CH. + LOL It does not counter 90 % of Amy's or Voldo's moveset.
In what case Is Asura hit confirmable? the second hit of it is GI'able and aGI'able (by at least 4 characters) and who presses B+K, waits to see if its blocked and then proceeds to press 6B??, it just doesn't happen. I never said Asura punishes do more than Asura but every character gets at least 60+ damage on it and its step-able for even more than that. Dont get me wrong its a pretty flippin good tool but if you know the match up its something you have to be extremely careful about throwing. Specially if you cant hit the GB version consistently.
Kilik also has a much worst Oki, ground game, punishment and SG game than Amy and Voldo.
Again dont think Im hating. Kilik was my first main and its still one of my 4 main chars but I think people think maybe cause he is GOD-tier online or for whatever other reason that he is OP offline, which is not the case.
TsunamiBye
[14] Master
So we all get bored and hate on *insert character here*? Oh my.
Let me address things one by one.
1) Aggression is boosted only for low blockstun moves. Otherwise you can just buffer in your response while the blockstun is active and it plays out the same as offline. So this argument maybe applies to Amy, but not at all to Voldo.
2) Spacing is boosted way more online than aggression. Because at the beginning of every match, after every knockdown, after ever spacing move, you have to close distance against Kilik/Ivy, and this is much harder to do online. Step and movement in general are penalized online, and Kilik and Ivy force their opponents to move just to be in range to attack. It's true that its harder to step Amy and Voldo's vertical attacks but at least when they finish attacking you can counterattack. With Kilik you are out of range after his attack ends and he just keeps attacking.
3) Voldo's 3A catches step poorly, is punishable, and does not guarantee any damage after. In addition to being very linear, Voldo has other weakness i.e. a lack of good moves to discourage his opponent from cheating on frames. He has nothing like Mitsu's 3A which is i15 mid and huge damage on CH, etc.
4) Kilik's 1B: -16 is barely unsafe at all. Punishing a -16 with an i16 isn't that easy even offline, online its impossible. So that means Amy/Voldo are getting chip damage from 1B, sometimes not even that if its well spaced. How much damage does 1B do on CH? To give an idea, Voldo's 3A is also -16 and doesn't guarantee any damage after. Furthermore, yes it really does counter like 90% of either character's movesets. There's a good thread on the Voldo forum about his step catchers, you need to read it. Voldo has a handful of moves that reliably track step period, and most of those are trash. Facing forward, AA is basically Voldo's ONLY reliable anti-step in both directions (at least that anyone actually uses).
5) Lots of people hit confirm Asura. I'm not 100% if you can confirm the second hit or not, but you can definitely confirm the third. Some character's (i.e. Amy) can aGI after the first hit. Most (including Voldo) cannot. Regular GI's are not punishment, they are basically mixups. Sure you can counter Asura using highs and kick attacks. You are missing the point though. Of course there is some way to deal with it. The point is that the risk reward on Asura is amazing, and so its very hard to deal with. If you use a high you open yourself to TC moves in the future. If you are lucky enough to have a kick attack that does good damage vs a TJ move than congrats, most combos though are completely screwed up by the jumping.
6) Yeah he has worse Oki/ground game (not sure what you mean by listing those separately). Yeah he has worse punishment. His SG game is the same as Amy's and basically the whole cast minus Voldo: non-existent. How many critical finishes do you see in any tournament level game? Even by Voldo? On the other hand, for whatever reason the devs decided that rather than have the same options for getting up that 95% of the cast has, that they should give Kilik a zillion things he can do off the ground. It doesn't affect Amy's oki very much but it has a very big impact on Voldo's oki, it's much harder for Voldo to attack Kilik on the ground than any other character.
1) Aggression is boosted only for low blockstun moves. Otherwise you can just buffer in your response while the blockstun is active and it plays out the same as offline. So this argument maybe applies to Amy, but not at all to Voldo.
2) Spacing is boosted way more online than aggression. Because at the beginning of every match, after every knockdown, after ever spacing move, you have to close distance against Kilik/Ivy, and this is much harder to do online. Step and movement in general are penalized online, and Kilik and Ivy force their opponents to move just to be in range to attack. It's true that its harder to step Amy and Voldo's vertical attacks but at least when they finish attacking you can counterattack. With Kilik you are out of range after his attack ends and he just keeps attacking.
3) Voldo's 3A catches step poorly, is punishable, and does not guarantee any damage after. In addition to being very linear, Voldo has other weakness i.e. a lack of good moves to discourage his opponent from cheating on frames. He has nothing like Mitsu's 3A which is i15 mid and huge damage on CH, etc.
4) Kilik's 1B: -16 is barely unsafe at all. Punishing a -16 with an i16 isn't that easy even offline, online its impossible. So that means Amy/Voldo are getting chip damage from 1B, sometimes not even that if its well spaced. How much damage does 1B do on CH? To give an idea, Voldo's 3A is also -16 and doesn't guarantee any damage after. Furthermore, yes it really does counter like 90% of either character's movesets. There's a good thread on the Voldo forum about his step catchers, you need to read it. Voldo has a handful of moves that reliably track step period, and most of those are trash. Facing forward, AA is basically Voldo's ONLY reliable anti-step in both directions (at least that anyone actually uses).
5) Lots of people hit confirm Asura. I'm not 100% if you can confirm the second hit or not, but you can definitely confirm the third. Some character's (i.e. Amy) can aGI after the first hit. Most (including Voldo) cannot. Regular GI's are not punishment, they are basically mixups. Sure you can counter Asura using highs and kick attacks. You are missing the point though. Of course there is some way to deal with it. The point is that the risk reward on Asura is amazing, and so its very hard to deal with. If you use a high you open yourself to TC moves in the future. If you are lucky enough to have a kick attack that does good damage vs a TJ move than congrats, most combos though are completely screwed up by the jumping.
6) Yeah he has worse Oki/ground game (not sure what you mean by listing those separately). Yeah he has worse punishment. His SG game is the same as Amy's and basically the whole cast minus Voldo: non-existent. How many critical finishes do you see in any tournament level game? Even by Voldo? On the other hand, for whatever reason the devs decided that rather than have the same options for getting up that 95% of the cast has, that they should give Kilik a zillion things he can do off the ground. It doesn't affect Amy's oki very much but it has a very big impact on Voldo's oki, it's much harder for Voldo to attack Kilik on the ground than any other character.
Kitz
[09] Warrior
It's really simple. Fotd-JFAsura and you have a God match on your hands. BB and 6B Spam, you're probably dealing with someone from ign, which will be a really hard match anyway. [/sarc]
All and all, yeh, kilik is a broken Character. Psh with all them aGI, and range; How will you ever get your 1As in?
[/sarc]
All and all, yeh, kilik is a broken Character. Psh with all them aGI, and range; How will you ever get your 1As in?
[/sarc]