Yoshi Match-up Chart

HajimeOwari

HajimeOwari

[11] Champion
This chart was created in collaboration with Lolo. Any match-ups Lolo and I didn't agree on are noted as such in quotes.

Let me preface this chart by saying that this chart is for a Yoshi who plays safe. A safe Yoshi can defined as a Yoshi that does NOT DGF K spam, spam or depend on other punishable lows (214A, FC 3K, etc.), stance dance, iMCF spam (as opposed to intelligent iMCF use), and/or do randomly, stupidly unsafe things in an attempt to confuse the opponent. If the Yoshi you're playing against is anything like the above, the match is easily 7/3, 8/2, or even 9/1 in your favor. I don't care what character you're using. You have excuse not to win then. =/

Anyways, I hate tier discussions and theory fighter, but since some people asked...

Algol - 5/5
Amy - 5/5
Astaroth - 6/4 (Lolo 5/5)
Cassandra - 6/4
Cervantes - 5/5
Darth Vader - 6/4
Hilde - 4/6
Ivy - 4/6
Kilik - 5/5
Lizardman - 6/4
Maxi - 6/4
Mitsurugi - 6/4 (Lolo 7/3)
Nightmare - 6/4
Raphael - ??? (Lolo 4/6)
Rock - 6/4
Seong Mi-Na - 6/4
Setsuka - 4/6 (Lolo 5/5)
Siegfried - 6/4
Sophitia - 5/5 (Lolo 6/4)
Taki - 6/4
Talim - 6/4
The Apprentice - 6/4
Tira - 6/4
Voldo - 4/6
Xianghua - 6/4
Yoda - 6/4
Yoshimitsu - 5/5
Yun-seong - 6/4
Zasalamel - 5/5
 
It would be good if players from the different chars, post their toughts, cause maybe they know things that we don´t... that´s for sure.
 
I agree with all of that. Yeah I feel it's an uphill battle (not by much) when fighting setsuka. But, in addition to that, I find it hard to fight Mina's who can properly space and play relatively safe. Thats the only other trouble I really have with a character.
 
I dont believe X is 6/4 in our favor. Its more 5/5 IMO. Maybe even 4/6

X's range is farther than yoshi's and she has ways to keep us from stepping. A lot of her moves step yoshi's arsenal. She can match us poke for poke.

I dont have any clue how Yoshi has advantage of against X.
 
Codemaster: Can you be more specific about what part of Mina's game is causing you problems? I can't point out specifics, but I haven't had any serious issues with Mina. For me, fighting Mina is like fighting Asta or Kilik in which whiff punishing and 9A+Bg and 9B+K play a big part of getting inside.

funkpanda: Having played Jimmy, It's hard for me to say whether Yoshi has a serious advantage or not. Since I was leaning 5.5/4.5 and lolo went 6/4, I just rounded it up. One thing for sure for is that Yoshi isn't at a disadvantage in this match-up. 6/4 at best, 5/5 at worst, imo. Can you break down specific issues you've had in your matches?
 
Well, I don't really play Mina all too well. However, when playing good ones they see my Deathcopter and use 4B+K or 4A to get away quickly enough, or sometimes even just use B+K to hit me out of the air. Yes, 9B+K us a greatm GREAT tool to use against those with range, but it doesn't help me enough to the point where I find her to be a good match for me. I can't give you specific attacks because, as I said, I don't play her so I don't know the names of her moves, but I will look into them. However, I played KrazySyko, H2O Tidal Leaf and Dragon. They space me enough to the point where my game has to change completely and I always have to remain quite defensive to a point where it messes up my game sometimes.
 
No im talking offline. Her spacing gets to me, I have a problem getting around it. I was mentioning on-line people cuz unless you live in Whitesboro, NY you wouldn't be able to play the people I play =D
 
Nofacekill3r said:
You guys feel that Ivy has an advantage over you? Explain?
Click to expand...

No I wont, hehehe, I´ll give u more tools to beat my Yoshi.
Nah, it´s just that Yoshi´s strenghts and weakness were evaluated, so, it´s not a secret that Yoshi lacks long raged moves that can compete with those of long ranged chars.
Yoshi´s strenghts to me are, "punishing, speed in close range, and strong combos", but there are chars that can´t be punished so easialy like Ivy, HIlde, Raph among others, so u are taking away one of his strenghts, get it close range against a char that can create space like Ivy, takes away another strenght...

If u see in the chart, Yoshi doesn´t have good numbers against long ranged chars (not everyone), that means that Yoshi depends on side step verticals, evade highs, and take advantage of any mistake to get close, once he is close is another story.

And before anything else, I´m not telling all the strenghts and weakness of Yoshi, I think there´s another thread for that.
 
I'll admit I feel somewhat different. I feel that Yoshi has the answers against ranged characters and it shouldn't be an issue. Ivy does feel that she more ways to deal with my answers. I'll need to session with an Ivy off-line to be sure of this, though.
 
Personally i'd say
X vs Yoshi is 6/4 in her favor
Yun vs Yoshi 5/5
Cass vs Yoshi 5/5
I agree with lolo's 6/4 vs Sophitia

vs X
X is one of the most underrated characters in the game. She is without flaw and excels at pretty much everything in the game. I simply can't see ANY adv for Yoshi here at all considering she can pretty much do everything he does and a bit more safely too. Yoshi needs to gamble lows and throws or he has no mixups. Relying on CHs here, is not in his favor here...she's pretty much safe and evasive and just as fast. She punishes QUITE heavily, and many times for ring out too (ouch). Her sweet i11 AA being as rangey as it is (and combo CH and confirmable), as well as her ultra low ducking 2K (hard to step) makes poking her difficult. Yoshi can't punish 2K, but she can even punish his 2K with crouch throw. Combine this with sensible 1B+K, 44B and step B application makes her very dangerous. Keep in mind Yoshi is rather linear and has ZERO scary antistep attacks of good speed. She tracks step better, and has the better step game and punishment.
Her lows are all trickier to deal with, and even if blocked, Yoshi doesn't punish them well. She also does better gauge damage. She's quite simply beastly when played correctly....sadly i'm yet to see one that uses her to her fullest.

Yun vs Yoshi
Interesting matchup to discuss but almost everyone is under the misconception that counter CR = Yun's demise. Wrong. His strength lies in his ability to HEAVILY punish highs, and lows, with his awesome TC, and awesome TJs. His spacing game is what makes this match even combined with a nice i12 K that offers CH combos and good throw range. Conservative play would yield him rewards....I'm having difficulty seeing how Yoshi is going to crack him, without taking some serious risks. ps. Yun can punish blocked lows and ducked throws with 236KK. Good step and spacing makes iMCF FAR less threatening in this matchup. Having a safe low in 11A helps as he doesn't really haven't take any serious risks. Whittle at he soul gauge and maintain space.

Cass vs Yoshi
Pretty even imo. I see no advs for him, neither do i see advs for her. Solid damage, solid pokes, good step. Matchup needs to be expanded on. Both of them slug it out really nicely. It's a matchup i do quite often.

Sophie vs Yoshi
Sophie's issue vs Yoshi, is that she's quite open to throw mixups almost everytime she's blocked. Yoshi's throws are dangerous. Also being vertical heavy as she tends to be Yoshi has the evasive tools and speed to counter for high rewards. Quite literally, she doesn't have much to work with in this matchup. Her throws aren't scary in the slightest and her 1K....blows. Her autoGI can be troublesome though. This is another familiar matchup for me.
 
Invert the Ivy numbers and I'll agree with you Hajime.

At least that's how it feels when I fight any decent Yoshi, you and Rayi included. I already posted the reasons on the Ivy SA, but to sum it up, you force Ivy to play extra defensively without her being able to employ a good variety of her mixups or combo starters via dragonfly, pogo, iMCF, etc. Last thing Ivy needs her opponent to be is on a pseudo TJ/TC, or beating out her SW 6 after a blocked 2B with iMCF, among other things.

I'd like to hear why you think Ivy's at an advantage though.
 
Thanks hotnikkelz.
I´m an X player too, she was kind of my main for 1 or 2 months, and was my main back in SC3 and SC2... At the begining I considered her as mid, but after playing her seriously, I see that she can compete with most tops.
She would be a monster if she had a better RO game (I like to RO with 2A+G), I see Yoshi vs Xianghua as an even match too, if both are played safely, there´s not much to punish for both, iMCF owns her "just kidding" game in case it´s being abused (I know you mustn´t do this, it´s great for wakes tough), X wins the throw departament, no doubt about it, but Yoshi has good throw game too.
Overal is an even match, but, then the Yoshi´s RO game came to my mind, is within the top 3 in this department, so many options to RO and X RO is limited, so for me, this is the reason that I´m giving 6/4 to Yoshi.

VS Cass, it´s even too, but I think Yoshi can punish her more than she can punish Yoshi, but it´s even.

VS Yun, I might reconsider it, I do have some problems vs Yun, altough 214A becomes an strong weapon vs him, but you´re right, if he is spacing well, it will give some problems to Yoshi.

And Yoshi is a Sophie eater, no doubt about it.
 
isnt the pirate supposed to have a slight advantage over yoshi considering how hard he punishes yoshis lows and id say his range is a little better than yoshi making yoshi have to come to you :)
 
Codemasters: I know far more offline players than online players. I'd venture to say that I know maybe 10 at most by name. The thing about 9A+Bg and 9B+K is that the ranged player must commit to a vert with a high hit box to stop you. So, it becomes a guessing game for the ranged opponent whether to try and kill your step or try and anticipate your "jump-in" game. If the Yoshi player guesses correctly, he gets inside + damage + potential Oki. If the ranged character guesses correctly, he gets whatever he hit with and that's it. That's how I see the match-ups, IMO.

Babalook: Please read the preface at the top about scrub Yoshis and spamming lows. Yes, Cervy can punish Yoshi hard for being unsafe, but Yoshi can in turn punish Cervy. Based on my last fight with Hates (we'll call him 80-90% Hates due to new stick adjustments at the time), I'd put Cervy at a slight advantage, but not enough to swing it to 4-6.
 
i agree maybe 5.5/4.5 but id have to say when cervantes punishes it normally hit quite a bit harder than yoshi and in in my oppinion his bigger punishers iGDR & 3B both leave him with better wakeup to.
 
Sure. But there are few things the Pirate gets to punish a smart Yoshi on. The only thing I expect to get punished for in the Yoshi v. Pirate match-up is 3B on block (iGDR punishable with near perfect timing) and FC 3K (WS A is free). There's no real reason to do anything else highly punishable against him. Yoshi still has plenty of tools to win with.

Cervy, on the other hand, has slightly more staple moves he relies that can be punished. So, I think it tends to even out in the punishment department.
 
Well, step punishing would just be 3B. That isn't above average damage, nor does it give any special wakes.

Whiff punishing what, though? iGDR isn't exactly free on any whiff.
 
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