Yoshi vs Backstep


[10] Knight
So I'm having this huuuge problem against spacers and people who love to backstep. Let's see, I have considerably less issues playing a Mitsu in my face than an Omega who pokes and keeps me at mid-range. Any ideas how to handle these beside blocking and gaining distance? Here are the moves that I usually use to close the gap, but a lot of them have their own probs:

1) 33B-shark: Can stop anytime, but I get crouched/hit out of it. Basically not safe
2) 44bB: Fast. Vertical. Sidestep prob.
3) 66A+B: Sidestep prob
4) 66K: the range is actually not that great. A lot of times I will 66K into a backstep and end up in front of the other guy's face
5) FC 3K: hard to see, but whiff/blocked and get punished
6) 66A: range not that great
7) 44A: decent, must use. Outranged by some 3Bs though
8) 8wr B+K: slow
9) BB: Actually has better range than most of his other moves. Steppable. But damn useful.
10) 4KB. JG/step the B. Can delay..

Then the shenanigans part:
11) JF 4AAAAA: in theory this is great; now if I can just consistently throw it even on my off days...
12) Flea hop
13) Deathcopter
14) MED 2A+B (these last 3 more often than not result in me eating something)

Any other strategies/favorite moves that you guys have to counter this issue? I feel like if Yoshi can just get something like Aeon's 66A, he will be top tier...


[10] Knight
First, the backstep:
Against Mitsurugi and MST 4KB is what I use. Most other stuff collides weird with him....
BB alone can pursue backsteps.
1K has better recovery now and can be used to close some gaps, but the start-up is stupid long.
9K is.... not as good as it used to be....
B+K B or A can sometimes work.
4A (not just) is decent and only -9. I use this when I expect them to block.

Now the sidesteps:
77_11 A is OK.
44bA ~ G.
4A (either just or not).
B+K B actually tracks semi-decently and B+K A is a decent low.
Even if you whiff 3AB you can still BE and it will track like magic (like most BEs).

I've completely given up on teleports for now. No one fears them and you can't option to teleport behind them. :\


FC 3K is fast enough that they would have to guess in order to block it. If the trend is that they backstep it's fast enough to catch them. If you're worried about a move being countered, really almost anything can be so weigh the odds on what you need for the situation. I throw FC 3K out fairly liberally. 4K, B is great against backstep and against moves like Mitsu's 4B. If the opponent has a strong JG game, just don't throw the B out everytime or delay it. 4K followed by another 4K, B or B, B or whatever really works pretty well because the opponent has created their own disadvantage waiting for the B to come out.


[10] Knight
My problem with FC 3K is that even though it's fast and deceptively long range, it still gets outspaced by Omega's BB/3B, Aeon's 66A/3B, which pushes me sufficiently far enough that an FC 3K will stop right before a 2141G backdashing opponent, or that I have to dash in a bit before doing so. Sieg's agA is probably on the top of my shitlist now. Or maybe I'm just doing something wrong.


[14] Master
Generic anti backstep tools (imo):

Point blank:

aB+K - Kills back and sidestep leading into launch. Sadly its high, but it covers all movement options.

3B - The range on this move is underrated, if they backstep from close it will chase you down and you'll earn some more frequent flyer miles with air Yoshi. Unsafe, but zoning characters (eg. NM, Xiba) aren't known for being great punishers, so you can get away with it to an extent on block.

bA - For show ONLY, satisfying when it works though, heh. (I do not recommend this in any serious match, but shitty players who use to much backstep deserve fire slash, lol.)

Close range:

BB - As covered in above posts

33B - I don't like 33B B+K because if you're going for backstep kill, 33B alone will net you more damage + okizeme and is only -12 on block.

iFC 1K: K: K: K: K series - hit confirmable between NH (3 hits) and CH (5 hits) and deals annoyingly good damage. Matchup dependant though - I wouldn't even consider this vs a high damage punisher like Alpha or Omega.

Close-mid range:

iFC 3K - Pros and cons covered in above posts

33B - still effective here, but be careful with spacing it, its not a disater on whiff, but don't go whiffing moves willy nilly.

4KB - Good damage + KND but I hate this move for backstep kill unless I HAVE TO use it - if this whiffs (which at mid range is much more likely) then its GGs. I will concede it can answer things like Mitsu 4B/Raph 44B but I certainly wouldn't rely on it generally unless I needed it specifically for that answer. =/


It's like 33B only it causes a crumple on CH but is linear and has no evasive properties aside from TC. No shark attack combo option either.


[10] Knight
It's something I throw out mainly if I'm online with 3 bars, like buffering it after iMCF for a DNK 3B followup if it's too laggy for RCC. The prob is that you can't shark if it whiffs so, free launcher.


[10] Knight
^If you can't RCC after iMCF, this is for you. Can't assume that every Yoshi knows how to iMCF or RCC. I know some people who prefer this over (CH) iMCF, RCC 3B, a:B+K, (ender)


Steamed Buns!!
It also has solid RO (better than any other iMCF combo except for a:B+K on characters that DNK connects after) when you combo DNK after it. Correct me if im wrong (I haven't messed with Yoshi in a while) but it also yields more pure combo damage than CH iMCF RCC, 3B, a:B+K, 3B.


[10] Knight
CH iMCF RCC 3B 6K does 2 points more though, negligible. If 66B DNK can RO then so can a:B+K DNK on all characters, regardless of whether DNK can connect on them midscreen or not. But 66B is a nice alternative after iMCF under pressure, at least you don't have to worry about messing up RCC, regardless of how low the chances are.

CH 66B DNK does not fully connect near walls though, the 3rd or 4th hit will whiff and the 3B will be blocked and punish, so watch out.


Steamed Buns!!
Well a:B+K DNK will only connect on all characters and RO near the edge. 66B, DNK will RO from farther than what earslicer into DNK will connect on everyone.


[00] Signia's Cheerleader
You know what's really bad? Whiffing 66B on a backstep. Disastrous.
Yeah it sucks. I usually try to sucker people into eating it after a blocked iMCF and it works shockingly often. When it does whiff and they whiff punish, it hurts bad though. 66B in general is pretty solid. It's only -12, does slightly more damage than 33B, causes a stun on CH which is the spice of life for Yoshi players, and can generally catch backstep as good as any move Yoshi has.


[10] Knight
I also got a lot of people to eat 66B after a blocked iMCF if they try to abare or attack. Though in subsequent matches they would have wizened up and start blocking the 66B. I guess there aren't many yoshi players who exist online who do this or can iMCF that results in people falling for it, but in time this would probably change.

Kamikaze is cool, but I want 6A back!


[09] Warrior
I also got a lot of people to eat 66B after a blocked iMCF if they try to abare or attack.
They can beat 66B after blocked iMCF with anything 20 frames or better, which makes it pretty risky. It is nice when you get them to eat that CH, though...combos combos combos. I need to stop doing it by default, though. Mix up with another MCF or WC K for safer options (would need i12 to interrupt another MCF; would need i17 or better that isn't high to beat WC K). Off a normal hit iMCF you're at +6, which is really when you can get them. It's just finding times for a normal hit iMCF to connect, since they can block it standing or ducking. []


[10] Knight
The people I play online I usually just iMCF twice.... or three times if they don't back up.... You can mix iMCF RCC or just iMCF FC MCF.

I would never think to iMCF into 66B since 66B is i17 + 3 (iMCF guard) for i20. Good reward if they eat it, though, and it would catch backstep.

since they can block it standing or ducking. []
Or punish with a jump if you're too predictable. :(


[09] Warrior
The other option for them, of course, is sidestep, which will make 66B whiff for hurt upon hurt. Definitely don't try anything like FC 3K after a blocked iMCF unless you know for certain they're a sucker and will take it. Remember that you can for some reason be thrown out of TC moves in this game. []