Yoshi vs Backstep

Frostheart

[10] Knight
I used to always iMCF twice until people backstep/jump. That's when 66B helps, really. Plus the animation is different from iMCF so inexperienced people sometimes attack and end up eating the CH 66B instead. Risk is definitely there though, which is why I mentioned it is disastrous on whiff.
 

Signia

[13] Hero
You guys have most of them covered, but have weird preferences lol.

66B (i17 -12/+8/DNK STN), 44bG (i18 -9/-3/iMCF STN), FC3K (i19 -22/KND/KND), 4KB (i20 -8/KND/KND), 66A (i21 -12/+6/+6), and all have the SAME range, which is just out of reach from starting position. Each have their advantages and disadvantages.

So... Why should Yoshi players care this move exists?
At i17, 66B is his fastest move for that range. May wanna reexamine it's range too... you have 33B in the "close range" section. 33B will be 10 frames slower though due to quick step.


The other option for them, of course, is sidestep, which will make 66B whiff for hurt upon hurt. Definitely don't try anything like FC 3K after a blocked iMCF unless you know for certain they're a sucker and will take it. Remember that you can for some reason be thrown out of TC moves in this game. []
Almost everybody I've played so far treats iMCF and 6B (BE) like advantage. I can generally do whatever I want after it lol. Btw FC 3K is not a TC.
 

JT_the_Ninja

[09] Warrior
Almost everybody I've played so far treats iMCF and 6B (BE) like advantage. I can generally do whatever I want after it lol. Btw FC 3K is not a TC.
Eventually, they learn...like they no longer try to counterattack after blocking 88K when I have a full meter (although, to be fair, a very fast move can interrupt the CE), given that it's i17.

I could've sworn that FC 3K was TC...in any case, I've had similar experiences with 214A, as I recall. []
 

Supa

[10] Knight
Wiki says FC 3K is TC and it dodges highs. hm....

There are wonky standing frames on like... everything, though...
 

Frostheart

[10] Knight
It isn't a TC? I could swear that I duck over some As with it... just that I got agA-ed out of it before and get grabbed out of it every so often. There are wonky frames/hitboxes everywhere, I hate it when I get BT hit by Natsu PO 8A, Xiba BT B+K, even connected once with Yoshi CE while opponent was behind.

I still wouldn't classify 66B as anything but "short range" though. It can get outdistanced by pretty much every "mid-range" thing - Aeon 66A, Natsu 66B, half the cast's 3B, shields 236B, aPat bA, the list goes on and on. "Mid-range" to me is starting position hit from tip range. And I'm pretty sure 4KB hits further, and FC 3K has a little extra "tip" distance too - 66B just feels like it bluntly stops there. Not discounting CH combo usefulness, of course.
 

mkl

[00] Signia's Cheerleader
It isn't a TC? I could swear that I duck over some As with it... just that I got agA-ed out of it before and get grabbed out of it every so often. There are wonky frames/hitboxes everywhere, I hate it when I get BT hit by Natsu PO 8A, Xiba BT B+K, even connected once with Yoshi CE while opponent was behind.

I still wouldn't classify 66B as anything but "short range" though. It can get outdistanced by pretty much every "mid-range" thing - Aeon 66A, Natsu 66B, half the cast's 3B, shields 236B, aPat bA, the list goes on and on. "Mid-range" to me is starting position hit from tip range. And I'm pretty sure 4KB hits further, and FC 3K has a little extra "tip" distance too - 66B just feels like it bluntly stops there. Not discounting CH combo usefulness, of course.
I would classify Aeon's 66A as absurdly long reaching. It's one of the only things I know of that can consistently punish Elysium's CE.
 

Signia

[13] Hero
And I'm pretty sure 4KB hits further, and FC 3K has a little extra "tip" distance too - 66B just feels like it bluntly stops there. Not discounting CH combo usefulness, of course.
If you main a character you should be going into training mode and seeing exactly how far your moves trace out... I can tell you 66B has disjointed hitboxes that make it deceptively long, and 4KB is only a hair longer.
Wiki says FC 3K is TC and it dodges highs. hm....

There are wonky standing frames on like... everything, though...
Oh, well the FP guide says it is in the frame data but isn't in the move description. It probably has TC frames somewhere in the animation, idk where though.
Eventually, they learn...like they no longer try to counterattack after blocking 88K when I have a full meter (although, to be fair, a very fast move can interrupt the CE), given that it's i17.

I could've sworn that FC 3K was TC...in any case, I've had similar experiences with 214A, as I recall. []
You're frame trapping with CE? :/
 

Supa

[10] Knight
22_88K and 4B were used as frame traps into CE pretty early. You can gauge pretty quick if someone consistently tries to counter attack after either.

It's not exactly EVO strats, but it works........
 

JT_the_Ninja

[09] Warrior
For whatever reason, his CE seems to beat out nearly anything else (other than a TJ move) after 88K. I don't think the move TCs, but it may have some invincible frames...a very fast move will beat it, obviously, and people are beginning to figure that out (beyond just remembering to block afterwards and not, say, stepping or attacking). []
 

Frostheart

[10] Knight
If you main a character you should be going into training mode and seeing exactly how far your moves trace out... I can tell you 66B has disjointed hitboxes that make it deceptively long, and 4KB is only a hair longer.
Huh. Are you pressing 66~6B? Or delaying the 6 so that, like you said, it is "disjointed" but no longer i17? If that's the case I can do the same for every other Yoshi move. And if you don't believe me about 66B vs FC 3K range:

(vid also covers other range options)

No offense, but I don't know what you're smoking lol. :X

For whatever reason, his CE seems to beat out nearly anything else (other than a TJ move) after 88K. I don't think the move TCs, but it may have some invincible frames...a very fast move will beat it, obviously, and people are beginning to figure that out (beyond just remembering to block afterwards and not, say, stepping or attacking).
I used to do that last month but now people are blocking after 22K. When I do CE by habit, it gets blocked and, well, launched Yoshi. I just iMCF after a blocked 22K, safer and you can still CE if they fall for the trap (albeit for less dmg). 0/-3 on block.
 

Signia

[13] Hero
Huh. Are you pressing 66~6B? Or delaying the 6 so that, like you said, it is "disjointed" but no longer i17? If that's the case I can do the same for every other Yoshi move. And if you don't believe me about 66B vs FC 3K range:
Wtf?? Hmm maybe I need to test that again...

For future reference, don't use CaS characters in demonstration videos like this. I can't stand all the combo videos that use them... hitboxes are different for CaS characters. Training mode replay is shitty too... make it look like a repeatable situation in a tournament match environment
 

Frostheart

[10] Knight
^oh yeah true that, should have considered the CaS hitbox issue. Proportionally distance-wise it should still compare the same though, regardless of whether the moves hit or not. Trust me I'd rather not have to rely on replay, I'm using a phone to record cos I lack a DVR :/
 

mkl

[00] Signia's Cheerleader
The beauty of 66B is that it is a 66 move and thus covers more space much safer than other 8wr options just because of the movement in this game. 66~G is the safest movement in this game, sadly. So pulling out 66~6B is AOK with me.
 

Signia

[13] Hero
Yeah ok 66B has significantly less range than I thought. Still though, it's not bad for backstep catching. It still probably has more range than most of you think!

Another possibly overlooked poke is 2B. It has more range than B and much safer than the rest of the choices I listed whooaa wait is the wiki correct? -18?? Surely it's -8 :)
 

OneManjiArmy

[10] Knight
If a mitsu is spamming 4B on reaction, I tend to CANCEL a BB move to bait it out for JG, side step then punish, deathcopter, and to a certain extent, AK. Usually gets them spamming noobs.
 

Frostheart

[10] Knight
Easy to block on reaction for the most part. It's really slow and interruptible, too. Though leaving you at advantage on hit is nice, but otherwise it's pretty meh. I wish 44A is 22A and vice versa.
 

flask

[09] Warrior
i´m wondering if i´m mixing these up! i´m thinking of the horizontal mid step-killer?
definitely not blockable on reaction.

i´m probably talking about 44A :)
is 22A his old 11A? the low slash?
 

Frostheart

[10] Knight
Oh that explains it :) Yeah, it's his low slash. My favorite step-killer still has got to be iFC 3K though.