Character Matchup Tier Project

Er...yeah.
Am I the only one who thinks that?
Of all the Cervantes that I fought and who knew better than to use 4B+K and BBB, they all used almost nothing but horizontals.
 
...Was it really possible to not understand what I meant?

Of course Cervantes has and uses verticals. I never said he didn't.
A serious Cervantes *might* throw a 66B or a WR BB here and there. But most serious Cervantes players that I've seen used horizontals way more than half the time.
And mixed with the low sweeps, it makes sidestepping fairly pointless.
Resulting in Setsuka partially losing a good source of damage, compared to several other matchups.
 
Cervy 2A+B can be stepped to his right, and with step G you have enough time to recognize 1A and low guard on reaction. 3A+B can be step G'ed, as well as WS A as long as you are not at too big a disadvantage. I don't see why Setsuka can't step vs Cervy.

IMO Lizardman has the best anti-step in the game, but even then with proper step guard it is still always in setsuka's advantage.

Not to mention Setsuka can just A+B aGI whatever she can't step.
 
You guys don't seem to get the point.
I'm talking about the frequency of horizontals.

But whaaaaaaatever. Looks like there's only room for theoryfighting in this thread.
 
Plume: Cervantes has more verticals/steppable moves than you realize. His 3B is a great move, and must be utilized, but it's vertical, for example.

Here's a short list of good moves he has that are steppable to at least one, if not both sides:

3B
66B
1K
44B
6K
3K
bK
66K
11B
WS K
2A

You're going to see many of those in high level play a lot.

Now thank me for the amount of restraint I showed in not simply flaming you off the face of the earth.
 
eltoshan: cervy 3A+B is i15, so yeah you could step G it but most of the time probably not. also, it's a mid that tracks both sdies, which opens up mixup options (throw) that can be used vs step G/2G

also this 4A move sounds good to me because of the block recovery.
 
Mmm.
The Cervantes players that I saw used only a minority of those moves.
And seeing how Setsuka gets so much damage from a successful sidestep, it makes me wonder if it would be safer to play like the Cervantes players that I had to face, when fighting against Setsuka.
 
it seems like the bigger problem here is that your criteria for Setsuka having a good matchup seems to be dependent on whether she can sidestep B+K string a lot. Setsuka has a quite a few things that could make for a difficult matchup for Cervy. ss B+K is not one of them
 
Of course Setsuka has other ways to win. But SS B+K is pretty major. Land it twice in a round and you can't really lose anymore.
And since it's pretty much the only way to land B+K against the headstrong types who refuse to crouch, it becomes even more important to be able to sidestep something.
 
You make it sound like Setsuka's main offensive game is based on her SS B+K, and while it's a great tool, it's not something she has to rely on. This applies with most characters. If you get sidestepped - expect to eat a significant amount of damage if your opponent is on point.

Think of it this way. If Setsuka could not B+K post side-step, would that change her character match up with Cervantes?

No, it wouldn't.
 
Tiamat, 3A+B that fast? Didn't know that, I was probably better off not knowing, lol.

Plume, if they don't duck, just start hitting them with 1A:A:A or throws. They will start ducking. Hell, even 11A is strong enough to make people duck.

Edit: my point is that setsuka doesn't need SS to win. It's not even her strongest attribute.
 
Agreed. SS B+K is far from needed to win.
Plume, you misunderstand Setsuka's true strenghs IMO, you should see the character as a whole, instead of focusing on a certain strengh of the character. That's her greatest strengh btw, she's able to adapt her gameplay to deal damage with lot of tools, if your opponent focus on blocking your step, you'll still be able to deal damage with other tools.

But let's keep on topic, if you want we'll continue this discussion with PMs.

Hates, what's your opinion about Setsuka vs Cervantes ?
I really lack of versus against solid cervantes so it would be great to get some insight about this match.
 
Can I recommend adding .5 to the Character matchup chart? I think it will be a little more accurate that way. Old school GI.com style.

I'll do Maxi's chart since he's my main.

ALGOL - 3.5/6.5
AMY - 5/5
APPR - TBD
ASTA - 4/6
CASS - 4.5/5.5
CERV - 4/6
HILDE - TBD
IVY - 5/5
KILIK - 3/7 (ASURA Dance FTL!)
LIZ - 5/5
MINA - TBD
MITSU - 4/6
NM - 5/5
RAPH - 4/6
ROCK - TBD
SETSU - 4.5/5.5
SIEG - 4.5/5.5
SOPH - 4.5/5.5
TAKI - 5/5
TALIM 5/5
TIRA - 5/5
VADER - TBD
VOLDO - 4/6
X - 4.5/5.5
YODA - Easy
YOSHI - 4.5/5.5
YUN - 4.5/5.5
ZAS - TBD
 
Shenrei said:
Think of it this way. If Setsuka could not B+K post side-step, would that change her character match up with Cervantes?

No, it wouldn't.
Click to expand...

Sure it wouldn’t because she still have agb post sidestep;D.

I must agree that her after sidestep punish tools are not her only strengths, but in other hand, you underestimate the power of sidestep (lol), yes its important, nobody likes to loose ~30~40% of life after making a safe and fast move like 3K for example. It can win you a round vs any types of players.


Setsu - Hilde : 4-6 or 5-5 - I don’t think there is a character that have advantage or is equal with Hilde on RO arenas. On arenas like cage setsu may have little advantage but i think it's more to equal.

Setsu - Ivy: 5-5 i dont think there is any advantage if both players know these characters. Maybe a little advantage for Ivy, hard to tell.

Setsu - Mitsu: 6-4.

Im curios about that 5-5 on Setsu - Asta, I don’t think its equal, more like 6-4. For me smaller guaranteed dmg after A+G doesn’t change that much in this match up.
 
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