Sophie Match-up Rankings

Suirad

Suirad

[10] Knight
So the call has been put out by Jaxel to get some ratings on match ups. http://www.8wayrun.com/f6/putting-together-a-proper-matchup-chart-t4148/
That should explain what's being looked for and for sophie lets discuss it here.

Only post if you have decent tournament experience under your belt please!

# - Algol
# - Amy
# - Astaroth
# - Cassandra
# - Cervantes
# - Darth Vader
# - Hilde
# - Ivy
# - Kilik
# - Lizardman
# - Maxi
# - Mitsurugi
# - Nightmare
# - Raphael
# - Rock
# - Seong Mi-Na
# - Setsuka
# - Siegfried
5 - Sophitia
# - Taki
# - Talim
# - The Apprentice
# - Tira
# - Voldo
# - Xianghua
# - Yoda
# - Yoshimitsu
# - Yun-seong
# - Zasalamel
 
5 - Algol
4 - Amy
5 - Astaroth
6 - Cassandra
6 - Cervantes
5 - Darth Vader
4 - Hilde
5 - Ivy
4 - Kilik
6 - Lizardman
6 - Maxi
5 - Mitsurugi
5 - Nightmare
7 - Raphael
7 - Rock
6 - Seong Mi-Na
5 - Setsuka
6 - Siegfried
5 - Sophitia
4 - Taki
6 - Talim
5 - The Apprentice
6 - Tira
6 - Voldo
4 - Xianghua
9 - Yoda
6 - Yoshimitsu
7 - Yun-seong
5 - Zasalamel
 
4.5 - Algol
6 - Darth Vader

I don't think she is that bad against Kilik. And I don't think she is that good against Seong Mi-na. Kilik should get a 5. I need to think of a number for Mi-na.

I find Zasalamel to be a bad matchup for Sophie. I need a bit to think of a number.
 
Ramon, why do you feel the match up against X is in her favor? I always thought it was at least even, if not advantage sophie just because most of her transitions into her stance can be interrupted on block and sophie punishes a lot of what X can do with aa or as b
 
i found that mostly a safe X still has MANY tools to use...not as much as against other characters but still plenty of tools!
 
Vincent said:
I find she only struggles against Algol, Amy, and Hilde.
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This, they feel like 4s at best to me. Algol for bubbles/B,B/1A/backstep range game; Amy's speedy pokes and safe 33B launcher; and Hilde's charge moves/safety/doom combo/uber sidestep.

I'm slightly confused by a few of the numbers given so far... could you guys share your reasoning (at least brief ones) for your ratings?

edit:
Ramon said:
i found that mostly a safe X still has MANY tools to use...not as much as against other characters but still plenty of tools!
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I agree w/ this... but at the same time, you have both X and Hilde rated as a 4, and I'm having a difficult time thinking these two fights could be of equal difficulty... maybe I just haven't fought a good-enough X, I dunno.
 
Ramon said:
6 - Lizardman
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I don't mean any disrespect, but is there a specific reason you place Lizardman at a disadvantage? I suppose maybe because of his large hitbox, but he can be downright deadly aganst Sophitia if you find someone who actually knows him.
 
FunkyChunkyDude said:
I don't mean any disrespect, but is there a specific reason you place Lizardman at a disadvantage? I suppose maybe because of his large hitbox, but he can be downright deadly aganst Sophitia if you find someone who actually knows him.
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That could be said about anyone that knows their character, but what tools does Lizzy has that puts him at an advantage over Sophie? I would leave him at a 6.

And I agree with X being a 4. X is not an easy matchup for Sophie. Algol is a 4. He has the advantage over her, but it's not an impossible matchup. Plus he can keep her spaced with bubbles or BB.

Yoda should be at 10. Sophie RAEPS! that nooga. :-)
 
This is why I hate matchup charts. I strongly believe Sophitia is superior to Xianghua. I estimate the score should be 5.0 - 4.5 in Sophi's favour.

But, how are we supposed to prove who's right? I'm a good player, I main both characters, and I play against a good X. Does that count for anything? And, why does this matchup stuff matter? How does anyone benefit if there can be a gray area with such conflict in opinion? Also, tier rankings were established long ago. We all know who's generally considered to be in what tier. Isn't that good enough? That thread should've been stickied.
 
vincent if u dont think it matters then dont post here...simple as that! if ppl want it written out then respect that. i dont get why ppl in this community see something they dont fully like and just bitch at it! its my match up chart...make your own if you dont like mine, im not changing anything unless i feel its true.
 
I'm still not sold on X having advantage over sophie. like what safe moves does X have that makes the matchup in her favor? fc3B? 1b+k? she doesn't have any safe lows that aren't seeable like sophie. she has a faster aa, but it's minus on hit I think. so if they just stop at aa, you can pressure some. her throws front throws are better than sophie cause they seem to have a bit more range and ring out, but the damage is about even. if X steps something, she get's a launch, but that's punishable by sophie I believe. X can't really punish 1k hard, all she get's is a fc3b/throw mixup and you may be able to step the fc3b

anyway, against X, I use 66A, 1k, and sit back in punish. sure she can hit me with chip lows, but if I block one, I get all that damage back and some more.

*i forgot about 1k, that's a good low, but it's steppable too.

still, what type things does she do that's hard to stop or get around?
 
Ramon said:
vincent if u dont think it matters then dont post here...simple as that! if ppl want it written out then respect that. i dont get why ppl in this community see something they dont fully like and just bitch at it! its my match up chart...make your own if you dont like mine
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Listen to what Jaxel is actually saying. His first post didn't exactly ask to please make your own personal chart. He wants everyone in the soul arena to agree on a list. That's just asking for trouble. Look at his reason for it too: "The majority of the community here completely disagrees with the french chart, so I figure its time we made our own."

What does that really mean? "The French are wrong, so let's show them we're right... somehow, with this subjective list. Muhahaha! USA! USA!"

Well, I'm okay with individual lists. But that's not what this is about. If it were really just your list, I wouldn't mind. But I don't think it's right to sit back and let someone speak on my behalf. That's why Tiamat and Lau were probably in opposition as well. I bet several French players don't like when people refer to them as the guys with the "French chart", as if everybody's thoughts/feelings can be grouped into a singularity. Stereotyping = offensive.
 
fine but your previous post DIDNT help anything... the whole "i beat X's so that means that X is not a hard matchup" isnt what we need...so if u really dont want me to talk for you...then start saying something that matters and stop talking like a retard. give me something to work with...


unless u want me to say Vints vs X is like a 5.5
 
Setsuka vs Sophie

4:6 (sophie favor)

Nightmare : Sophie

3.5:6.5 (sophie)

reasons: because i said so

-LAU
 
LAU said:
Setsuka vs Sophie

4:6 (sophie favor)

Nightmare : Sophie

3.5:6.5 (sophie)

reasons: because i said so

-LAU
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Can't argue with that logic.

Truthfully though, I agree with this. Nightmare is a walking mass of unsafe, and Setsuka is simply outranged badly.
 
Setsuka outranged by Sophitia ?

Here are some basic facts.

- Range? Setsuka has 33B, bA (unsafe but eh ...), a good BB, wsA, A+K,A, ...
- Setsuka's damage from safe combo starters is very high
- Setsuka has 1A : A : A to deal damage from a low. Sophitia has ... 1K and 11A ...
- Setsuka has much stronger throws
- Setsuka's step is better than Sophitia's

How can Sophitia have the edge in this matchup ?
(or a good setsuka hasn't even crossed your path ?)
 
tresto said:
Setsuka outranged by Sophitia ?

Here are some basic facts.

- Range? Setsuka has 33B, bA (unsafe but eh ...), a good BB, wsA, A+K,A, ...
- Setsuka's damage from safe combo starters is very high
- Setsuka has 1A : A : A to deal damage from a low. Sophitia has ... 1K and 11A ...
- Setsuka has much stronger throws
- Setsuka's step is better than Sophitia's

How can Sophitia have the edge in this matchup ?
(or a good setsuka hasn't even crossed your path ?)
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dude... the points you made above... can be said about setsuka vs ANY characters... however... you didn't address ANYTHING that is sophie vs setsuka specific

therefore... you fail...

my reference to anti-setsuka is really based on playing agaist Chang's Friend's setsuka.. i think his is quite good.

here's a little more detail... and if you don't buy it.. fine.. i'll leave it as it is.. i'm NOT looking for an ongoing argument.. but if you're in for an argument it pretty much proves everything Vints said... about nobody ever agreeing.... and if you do listen to me.. then I guess whatever I say is always right

out-ranged doesn't necessarily mean who's got the bigger range...

it means who's got the bigger range at a certain speed...

sophie BB shuts down setsuka...

I literally can BB spam the shit out of setsuka.. and it's hard for her to get in.. and when i say spam... obviously spam 'intellegently' NOT BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

maybe incorporate other pokes or backstep with it.. but as well as using a lot of BB..

you'll realize pretty much ALL the stuff you mentioned above fails either in speed or range...

with Sophie spamming BB i automatically killed all her chance to mixup

here are the points you listed above vs BB

1. 33B/bA although frame wise they are i17 and i18 respectively they lose to BB in speed obviously i'm not doing BB out of range and not to mention both these moves actually have 'execution' frames unless you're doing it out of guard buffer... so technically it's impossible to achieve i17 for 33B from empty guard situation.. however... BB doesn't have this problem...

2. setsuka's BB fails soooooooo much against sophie's BB.. it's not even funny.

3. WS A? you won't even have a chance to duck BB

4. A+K you wanna jump into BB now?

5. safe combo starter.. sure it's safe against block.. but problem is starting it without getting BBed

6. those lows you mentioned are awesome lows... unfortunately they are too slow and way too short ranged and will get BBed

7. a. like lows.. she'll never get close enough... b. if you don't consider throw range a comparison then yes setsuka's throws are even better than NM's... reality is.. throw range counts and sophie's range is slightly better than setsuka from what i remember... so i wouldn't necessarily say setsuka's automatically better.. but regardless... it's probably the way i play... since i step left for the right side throw and use that the most more than frontal throws.. but anyways.. as i listed in point A... this is a totally different issue.. and lets just say setsuka's throws >>> sophie.. but still doesn't beat BB

8. step better than sophie.. this i'm not sure.. but FINALLY you found something out of your 8 points to beat out BB... however.. once i put in other moves like AA or other horizontals every so often... that kinda shuts it down again ... also not to mention the fact BB for sophie... we all know the 2nd B kinda tracks a bit as well...but for this argument step > BB but fails against horizontals.

---------
BB shuts down setsuka HARD.. try it out...

for bonus...
you got your regular pokes to contain and pressure setsuka...

11A to keep her on her toes
11AA setsuka can't even BB/AA this she's gotta think and react and do something else and it's not easy for her to punish this on block ...
step + 4B+K owns setsuka close range... that is if setsuka MANAGES to get close range.. you start doing this.. it'll make setsuka very sad.
AA/3K/other horizontals - keep her honest with staying still

finally last but not least A+B since setsuka LOVES mids...

-LAU
 
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