SC Community needs to move on....

[KingAce]

It's far too late to ban hilde, that ship has sailed and things turned out pretty much like many of us expected.

Banning button binding is absurd, playing with claw style on a pad is very uncomfortable, although that's how I am learning tekken I don't find it appropriate for SC at all.

If you want to deal with Hilde now, address her and confront the situation directly don't beat around the bush talking about banning binds. That's an entirely different discussion and a debate you won't win.

Outright banning hilde is pointless. Unless you can guarantee a higher turn out. And algol shouldn't be banned, really come on now, by now everyone should have anti algol strats. Even my Asta is starting to look like a 6:4 instead of 7:3 match-up.

For hilde your options are these.

Ban button binding with hilde.
Lock hilde matches on 3 walled stages.
Allowing Stage selects.
Ban ROs, with cage matches only.
Or leave things as they're.

 

[IdleMind]

It's far too late to ban hilde, that ship has sailed and things turned out pretty much like many of us expected.

If you want to deal with Hilde now, address her and confront the situation directly don't beat around the bush talking about banning binds. That's an entirely different discussion and a debate you won't win.

You know, some of us out there did deal with it proactively already, just saying.

-Idle

 

[KingAce]

When these discussion counted the most while players where complaining, those with any clout in the community didn't have the balls to address them.
Controversy is one thing people in this community like run away from, when there is a problem those that can make change happen tend to look away and hope the situation will solve it self or go away.

They're so concerned with saving face and protecting their egos to actually stand themselves in the light and expose themselves to scrutiny.

That's how it was for VC in SC3 that's how it's been so far with SC4, of course Jaxel always looks out for his community and does something but it's usually a bit late in the game.

At no point in SC4 did we have a solid community, we were rebuilding that's how it was. And early on most of us were smart about it and considered bans as a viable option to help in our renewed growth. However, people got too comfortable with the situation a little bit too early and thought that what the heck we got players why ban anything? Some how thinking their will be no repercussions.

Before Evo and Nationals, how many threads were opened, how many of those same threads were locked, how much flaming happened...a good amount. A downward spiral, by the time Nationals was done and the hype had died down it was already too late IMO.

These kinda of discussion noone wants anything to do with, most of you feel real uncomfortable when you read this shit, but that's how it is.

My personal theory behind bans is to maintain a strong community, not because I am a scrub, but because I want people to have fun playing this game, to invest their money to show-up to tournaments and enjoy the social side of gaming. And if that means two or three characters are never to be played in tourny's that to me is a reasonable trade off; I gain that much competition from it.
But at this point since the damage has already been done I really don't see the point.

It's like a buziness you know, you got customers you make more money. You please your customers they give you more money and tell new customers about how good your service is. They're happy you are happy. You piss them off with your bad quality and tell them to deal with it, well that's bad buziness there son.

 

[IvyFanboy]

DO NOT BAN BUTTON BINDING. Other characters need not suffer for a broken characters abuse of it. It's a bad solution. Soft ban the combos or ban the character those are the only valid options.

People really need to think about what's good for a game. I constantly play games where something is broke and pointing out an obvious flaw and presenting a solution is regarded as whining and counter productive. I don't get how so many people fall into this mentality. It's those people that further bad game design. It's the scrubs mantra of "It's part of the game so it must be fair". Bans on Hilde should've been a simple move and so many people fought it and of course they were wrong and the community paid the price.

The community leaders should not be afraid to upset the people that are obviously wrong. In the end the community will benefit more than their backlash will harm it.

 

[Impending_Doom66]

DO NOT BAN BUTTON BINDING. Other characters need not suffer for a broken characters abuse of it.

Banning button binding wouldn't bother me if you were still allowed to move the buttons around. Hilde isn't the only character that gets a boost that they wouldn't have without binds.

 

[IvyFanboy]

The mechanic isn't broken with other characters though. My Ivy as well as the rest of the cast should not have to suffer because 1 character can abuse it. Attach rules to the sole character that's an issue, not the rest of the cast. I've become far to comfortable having a B+K and A+K button for stance shifts.

 

[IdleMind]

The simple fact of the matter is, we did not foresee the effect binds would have on the one character. Other characters also have bind exploits too; that just aren't as severe as Hilde's. Now it's too late to ban button binding without seriously alienating what part of the community we have left, and on top of that making it harder to recruit new people. Telling new people "this character is banned because of this" is easier than saying "well we banned button binds because this character can abuse this bind command and this one, and these ones to a lesser extent blah blah blah blah".

We can afford to have the luxury of principles when we have a community to stand by them.

-Idle

 

[IvyFanboy]

Better solution...

Ban button binding ONLY on Hilde...? People can play their character and not have to deal with the BS (I assume it's button binds that make the doom combo possible or something like that).

 

[IdleMind]

Wait, are you making statements and you don't even know WHY the statements are taking place? How can you be expected to be taken seriously when the issue being discussed is an issue you are uneducated about?

-Idle

 

[Eyce_Theon]

Only binding second A/B inputs on Hilde brings up any sort of issue, it's been discussed plenty of times before. A quick recap -

Hilde is the only character in the game that has separate moves from the release of a button. Assuming the standard setup of one A/B/K/G button per controller, holding down A or B ensures that those buttons cannot be used normally until they are released, either as a charge move or dropped during a different animation. Having extra A/Bs set on the shoulders however allow Hilde to have full access to her whole move list while charging both A and B.

Note that this isn't an issue with any other character, the key difference being moveset availability. Other characters can benefit from extra shoulder binds with -ease of use- for complicated inputs that are impossible with one thumb (ex a:B+K) while Hilde loses the entire negative effect of charging moves.

I'm done, carry on.

 

[IdleMind]

Just an example of some other things you can do with binds aside from Hilde:

Guard rolling: Assign multiple G buttons and make JF teching easier. Try it vs mitsu 2kb.

Easy JF's: Cass 4BB:A becomes (even) easier with more A's. Cervy FC A+BBBBBBB GB becomes easier with multiple B's. Nightmare agA can be done with A~A+G. These are just a few examples.

I'm sure some of you will say "but it's hard! but I can't do it without a bind, its impossible!". That's bullshit. All of these things can be done, pad or stick on just ABKG. I've seen it done. I've done it. The bind ban isn't gonna happen it's just gonna alienate more people. In every area that Hilde is legal, the Hilde players have recourse to the above points; as they are VALID uses of binding for other characters besides her. So to my mind, you only have two choices. You either ban her as a character, or you don't ban anything at all.

IMO, you ban for one, you ban for all. Because that's not gonna happen, Hilde got shelved in some places.

-Idle

 

[lobo]

i'm too scrubby to play without my easy mode combos, stance shifts, and JFs ban. binds and i'll QQ.

look at this point i'd support a ban on certain characters OR a ban on binding. i think no harm could come from either. yes a bind ban would be more practical, but yes it would make more people cry.

bottom line is i am not running this show, and the people who have taken initiative and are doing so...well they get to make the decisions because they are the ones holding the offline community up in the first place. tghe debate is over. it was long ago.

at this point, please do one of 2 things...accept the rules as presented and support the tournaments, or stfu and play online or something.

 

[franman]

Wait I'm a little confused here, is your idea to ban single button binds assigned to an extra button or multiple button binds assigned to one button or both?

 

[IdleMind]

Wait I'm a little confused here, is your idea to ban single button binds assigned to an extra button or multiple button binds assigned to one button or both?

In a perfect world, I would have it so that you get 1 of each ABKG and place them wherever you want. For pad players, you cant bitch about how hard it is to hit A+K when K could just as easily be on R1 as it was on Circle.

We do not live in that perfect world. The bind ban isn't gonna happen anyways, for any character. Nobody really wants (or can afford to) alienate the players we already have. The only successful ban that's been put into place is the Hilde/Algol ban in the NE. The players alienated by this are signifigantly less (and in the NE, I think the count is at 1/2) than the people alienated by a bind ban or restriction.

-Idle

 

[franman]

As discussed in JavaChat; I'm already well aware that itz too late for a button-bind ban, but I'm more concerned that this maybe the future rule for the upcoming SC5.

I'm used to using multiple binds on the pad but I definitely would like to practice w/o using multiple binds on my spare time.

 

[teflon2105]

Wow even my girl don't bitch this much jesus button binds ban hilde ban this that. WTF So what hilde is broken a lot of ppl think she is a great addition too the SC roster.

Just because ya'll can't handle a character doesn't mean she should get banned it's far numbers of players around the world who likes a challenge. So hilde killed the SC community nothing but excuses. Players saying they leaving for SC5 not attending tournaments all because of one character. (shakes head)

 

[D.I.N.O]

I don't to enter Ban subjects. I'm still down for banning Star Wars.

But I don't think we should get rid of main roster characters.

How about Stage Select for all Hilde matches. BUT the only stages that would be allowed are ones with both Walls and Edges. This is fair to both players. This is th easiest solution UNLESS the other opponents agrees to random select.

This way we keep binds we keep characters everyones happy.

 

[IdleMind]

bottom line is i am not running this show, and the people who have taken initiative and are doing so...well they get to make the decisions because they are the ones holding the offline community up in the first place. the debate is over. it was long ago.

at this point, please do one of 2 things...accept the rules as presented and support the tournaments, or stfu and play online or something.

/thread

-Idle

 

[Chickenwing]

random stuff

No, reason being is because i played SC for years on pad, SC is made with 4 buttons, not 10.

Soft ban the combos or ban the character those are the only valid options.

no they're not, it's like what i've been saying. If you're going to make a rule, make it universal. Don't half ass anything.

Banning button binding wouldn't bother me if you were still allowed to move the buttons around.

I never disagreed with mapping. I only disagree with binding.

Better solution...

Ban button binding ONLY on Hilde...? People can play their character and not have to deal with the BS (I assume it's button binds that make the doom combo possible or something like that).

Go back to my last point, make a rule, make it universal.

Wow even my girl don't bitch this much jesus button binds ban hilde ban this that. WTF So what hilde is broken a lot of ppl think she is a great addition too the SC roster.

Just because ya'll can't handle a character doesn't mean she should get banned it's far numbers of players around the world who likes a challenge. So hilde killed the SC community nothing but excuses. Players saying they leaving for SC5 not attending tournaments all because of one character. (shakes head)

Tekken is made with 4 buttons, people play with 4 buttons. SF is made with 6 buttons, people play with 6 buttons. SC is made for 4 buttons, so why should you be the bitch and have 10 buttons? Also, i've never said ban the character, if you read my post that Idle quoted, i'm all for the cast. Just not the crutches that people use.

My point is clear and simple. So far, NONE of you have made any valid arguments against on what i am saying. Period

cept for you lobo...and that's because i <3 you :D


I'm not trying to be a dick, but after seeing your resonsonses your reasoning behind your arguments seem to only benefit yourselves. Not everyone else. If you can provide a point that is benefical to EVERYONE. I'll be glad and oblige to your argument. Until then, don't try to argue against my point. (+10 for me!!!!) Had i been in charge or at least had a say in the matter, that would've been the first rule i would've laid down. and like WCMaxi, i wouldn't of cared. Yea, he couldn't been a dick, but when he laid down the law, it was for the GOOD of the community. Yes, i would've lost some players. But i BET $100 that people would've stayed because of the fact that Hilde wouldn't of appeared as bad as she does now. And also the issue, AND ONLY ISSUE, would've been Algol. Assuming that's the case.

Fran: I disagree with this:

L1 = A+B
R1 = B+K

However, this is ok with me.

L1 = G
R1 = K

 

[IdleMind]

Chickenwing, I want what you want, but honestly, is it possible without bleeding players like an open wound?

-Idle