Hate Speech: When Worlds Collide (Revisited)

There’s nothing in this world more loathsome and repugnant than a flip-flopper. As we are reminded in every national election cycle, true leaders never change their minds, and they’re never, ever wrong. And I, of course, am a true leader, so please keep that in mind this week as we take another look at the function and implications of online play.

While I do indeed stand by everything I’ve previously said on the subject, the shockingly decent netplay afforded us by SC5 definitely warrants a new round of consideration regarding what benefits it ultimately provides us, the limits of its usefulness, and how far it can take us in our development as players.


Legitimately Playable Netcode (and Other Signs of the Apocalypse)

As we all know, when space aliens came down from on high and taught the ancient Mayans about science, mathematics, pyramid building, and online fighting games, it was with the understanding that they would closely guard these secrets until the end of days. With the end times now upon us, however—it’s 2012, after all—we finally have access to online play in a 3D game that isn’t patently terrible. In fact, it’s quite good . . . deceptively so, at times. That being the case, let’s dive back into what online play is and is not.

In the interest of fairness, a rebuttal to the above point.
First and foremost, online play is still not actual SCV, despite the fact that it approximates the actual (read: offline) gameplay experience far more faithfully than its predecessor ever could. The distinctions are, of course, subtle, but they’re nonetheless important. A multitude of online “lag tactics” still exist. Certain lows become much more difficult to block on reaction, some setups which require precision timing to defeat become entirely more solid than in fact they are in offline play, and numerous other small yet significant discrepancies come into play.

Despite all that, however, SCV’s enhanced netcode does allow for a nontrivial degree of reaction-based play, and tactics that are effective offline will generally work online as well. This becomes truer for semi-local matches. While I’ve had cross-country connections that would characterize as pretty damn good, I’ve had matches with people in my part of Norcal that are positively phenomenal. Whether almost-as-good-as-offline or just unexpectedly good, given the circumstances, almost any match that isn’t absolutely crippled by lag spikes and disconnects can serve as a useful training tool because the fundamental psychological elements of SCV play now remain largely intact when translated into the online realm. This becomes even truer when players enter into a gentlemen’s agreement of sorts, endeavoring to play in a manner that stays as true as possible to the sort of offline play seen in tournaments.

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Neither Pyrrha nor Pyrrha Omega (above) will be spamming out 1A in this match!
Even when that isn’t the case—against someone hell-bent on laming you out with moves and setups of dubious offline legitimacy, let’s say—simply playing online in all sorts of matches definitely increases the number of characters and strategies to which you are exposed. This can be hugely beneficial to players whose regions lack representatives for popular characters. For example, it’s prohibitively unlikely that anyone will be winning a major tournament without going through at least a few Pyrrhas, Pyrrha Omegas, and Natsus, but what if nobody in your local scene plays those characters? SCV’s improved netcode allows us to seek out those characters online and actually begin getting a rudimentary sense of what their moves look like, what their general playstyle might be, and how to counter those things. While imperfect, it’s a hell of a lot better than going in totally blind, and we would be fools not to make use of that.

The Pitfalls

So we’ve established that online SCV is comparatively amazing. What’s more, the gruesomely terrible online play we had in SCIV was still enough to give rise to mutant freaks like Woahhzz. Taken together, then, shouldn’t this new online play just be taken as perfectly legitimate?

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Of course not.

SCV online is incredibly useful for the reasons I’ve outlined above, and it’s enjoyable, too, to the point that I find myself playing quite a bit of it without ever getting so angry that I want to murder whoever thought it’d be a good idea to run games that require 1/60th of a second timing over a DSL connection that was already behind the curve in 1998. Despite that, there’s still a level of engagement and complexity that only instantaneous offline play can really provide. Just as importantly, though, there are certain elements already rising within the “online SCV culture” that we should guard against, lest they drastically interfere with our ability to become better players.

Of those elements, perhaps the most prominent comes from the game’s benignly cruel insistence on keeping track of all one’s wins and losses. While this is useful information to have, in a sense, it’s also somewhat dangerous in that it confers a significance to what should essentially be casual matches that frankly isn’t deserved. Hell, I catch myself getting entirely too worked up about these things from time to time, too. Just recently I played a ranked match against a player whose connection began fluctuating wildly from five bars to one, and back again. This shifting, pausing, stopping, and starting nearly destroyed my fragile little mind, and in the end I lost to silly stuff, dropping my overall win ratio to 93%. I was livid for almost three seconds, which was an eternity, given the circumstances, but that’s the sort of wildly irrational response that this level of stat-tracking elicits.

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Numbers never lie.
If any of us, myself most certainly included, make the mistake of lending too much credence to these sorts of numbers, we run the quite real risk of failing to push ourselves. If every win and loss is tracked forever, then every win and loss somehow matters, effectively erasing the concept of casual play. Unfortunately, casual play is absolutely essential to improvement. Without a no-stakes environment, it’s impossible to test out new characters, try new things, and so on, all of which is the key to getting the most out of online play. The only solution to this is to really embrace the notion that online play, while certainly good enough to help us improve, remains subordinate to offline play. Also, and more importantly, all online play is by definition casual play. This mindset is necessary in order to avoid both picking up online habits that will get you killed offline, and also as a general means to learn and improve.


Taking Your Beatings

As frustrating as it is to lose, particularly when the game remembers every mistake you make for the rest of eternity, losing remains the single most effective way to become a better player, and this is true both online and offline. In fact, the best potential upside of SCV’s online play is that it affords everyone the opportunity to go out and lose to new people and new characters in varied and intriguing ways.

During the first couple of months of both SCIII and SCIV, for example, I was beaten mercilessly, often by people who I was used to dispatching with relative ease. That’s simply the nature of the beast; a new game means an extended period of learning and adjustment. Luckily for us, however, we finally have a game wherein the online component is solid enough to allow us to take meaningful losses, reflect on them, and ultimately get mo’ better, mo’ faster. By keeping the relative value of online play in perspective and remaining steadfastly unafraid to get totally shined up on occasion, all of us can speed up the learning process and have a great deal of fun in the process.

Homework:

Tell me about your online experiences thus far. Are you finding it as potentially beneficial as I am, or is it already devolving into a cesspool of lag tactics and other garbage? What are the pros and cons?
Also, find some faux pro online and send him to 8wr. I’ve managed to get a few people against whom I’ve fought to come check out the community here—online play is an excellent way to add new blood to our community.

Finally, grab me on psn and help me wring all traces of respectability out of my win/loss record: bh8ffs

@Original_Hater
 
But it becomes spam when you have torn apart there sequence of moves and they continue to do it to no avail.

Just my 2 cents

Im with you. The fact that i kept side stepping, ducking and blocking the crossbow bolts didn't stop him from firing them.
 
Im with you. The fact that i kept side stepping, ducking and blocking the crossbow bolts didn't stop him from firing them.

Sadly, sometimes a player brings the one or two moves he/she knows to the player matches and ranked matches. If he/she is lucky they'll match up with someone else that has done the same thing and both parties will have "fun" otherwise things can be comical. One player will be side stepping, ducking and blocking and the other player's character usually gets, well.... Punished :-) When I face this kind of player, I usually don't try to punish them immediately, I use the opportunity to practice moves and techniques that I'm still working on. I treat my opponent like we were in training mode. I will always give them a 'gentlemen's round' and always give them the first half of the last round(that way everyone goes home with a prize), and then I bring the match to a merciful close. This gives my opponent just enough motivation that they think to themselves "I almost had him" and they are encouraged to go practice, but not so much punishement that they are scared to go Online again, or that they totally put the game down.

I've noticed online C1, D3s,B5s,etc just brutalizng E5's who are at less than Level 10.
I don't know where the fun is in that. Its obvious to everyone in the room the C1's etc are more skilled, but they just for some reason feel the need to just obliterate the new comers. Why don't they pick on someone their own rank or higher? It can be a cruel world online LOL. I've already noticed the E5 Bullies, that won't go rank up, but instead they stay at E5 and sport the 'Beginner' title but in reality they are intermediate players, who think that its sport prey on unsuspecting noobs. Intermediate -to-advanced players should really leave the beginner's rooms to beginners. Beginners can willfully come to causal rooms or everybody's welcome room or the Colesseo if they want to casually play higher ranked players. Most times when beginners pick beginner's rooms they don't expect to have to meet strong intermediate to advanced players. In these instances usually what happens is you will see the room has been terminated because host has left the room. This happens a lot because of those E5 bullies :)
 
Everything is ok in SCV except that all the stats are permanently tracked like you mention and there's no casual type games where we can just play around and not have it reflect on our numbers. And 70% of the player population seems to be Natsu right now.. it's.. really annoying.. the other 10% is Xiba and the last 10% is Maxi or Mitsurugi.

For me matches keep dropping completely near the second or final round of the fight. It's frustrating as well! But yes the connections overall seem to be quite smooth!
 
My experience at the moment is that there are a lot of new guys starting out and learning the game. If I come into a game that I know I am likely to win then I decide during the loading screens on working / doing something in my game that I struggle to pull off and use that against my opponent. This usually means dropping a few rounds unnecessarily but I will still try to win the match overall - hopefully helping to improve my clutch play - albeit against lower skilled players. I do get mad still, always at myself though because I did something stupid, or because of lag! ARGH!

If the new player is spamming though, I do try hard to break their habit - by beating them with mix up and hopefully showing that spam isn't effective, it's predictable :)

Would love to get some more offline games though but for me at the moment it isn't really feasible; friends live too far apart.
 
Yes, with the titles and all i started picking characters that i don't normally use to learn something new. Then i start getting wrecked by someone who was a way better player than me. No shame in that though. In SCIV i would like to think that i was a intermediate to a little higher player, but i have lost so many of my game mechanics (still find myself trying to parry), and the removal of my top characters (Cass, Amy, xianghua. [and no the replacement aren't the same]) so it's been slow going.
 
This is why I face every opponent with the assumption that they can kick my ass.

Also playing soft on people is disrespectful IMO.
 
This is why I face every opponent with the assumption that they can kick my ass.

Also playing soft on people is disrespectful IMO.

If after looking at your opponent's license, rank and level it should be obvious whether you are facing someone who is more skilled, similar skilled, or less skilled than you are.

If you are facing someone that is considerably less skilled than you, you know you're probably going to win the match (as long as there is more than one round LOL) There's really very little harm in giving your opponent enough space to show what they know is there? Since you're confident you're going to win, why not give your opponent a round or half a round to show off their skillset. Obviously how you play is you business. But a little sportsman like conduct is actually good for the game and good for the SC community, it promotes a fun online experience for new players. Sure, we could all apply a high pressured rushdown game on any and everybody we meet, we could crush those noobs without mercy demonstrating that we are superior beings, but in my experience, if we show a little sportmanship here and there, we actually help build the SC community and encourage players to learn more about the game. The bigger the SC community is world wide, the more and better games we are all likely to see. If you crush a new comer severly enough, they may prematurely decide this game is not for them and move on the Call of Duty or something. Even worse they could spread the word to their mates that the game is just too hard to play, and they will FN kill you if you ever get online LOL

Playing soft on intermediate to advanced players is another game altogether.
Reave, you're right there. It is disrespectful to put forth less than your best, if you're playing intermediate to advanced players. But to brutalize and punish some new player, because they have the poor fortune of just being new to the game... C'mon.... give-em a chance to grow up a little first, before you destroy them into oblivion LOL
 
Well no one ever took it easy on me. I had to get smacked into the floor and buried by ridiculous amounts of shit talking from my older brothers, cousins and sister when I was little. I got mad but there was nothing I could do about it until I practiced and got better. If people lack that type of drive to get better then it's personal.

It also ruins my experience to have to check everyone's record every time I face someone new. I just keep it moving or play friends

I also don't think softhearted people belong on the Internet but that's a whole different thing entirely.
 
Maybe it's because I'm a very apathetic person, but the numbers thing never got to me. I remember I used to watch high level Japanese arcade matches in a bunch of games and the best players would only have 60-something percent win ratios. Of course, unless you're the ultimate Calibur player, if you're playing decent players (or even just someone around your level) you're going to take a couple losses (especially if you play like me and try to either learn or have fun mostof the time).

I think it is all a part of being egotistical of disillusioned with our own abilities. I constantly remind myself that I don't know everything and that I'm playing against a human opponent (which causes me to give people to muc credit but that's a whole other story). You can't let your ego control you, because, deep down, everyone knows that they can lose, which leads to fear and disappointment, which will stunt your growth in anything.
 
Fighting games are not social services. Play to win, unless they ask you for help.

Here's a scenario that I'm finding a lot in SC5 online.

There are 4 or 5 players in a room mostly E5's maybe an E4. Everyone has had a match or two. Then , say a D3 joins the room and just wipes the floor with eveybody without mercy, next thing you know, the host has left the room. Everybody's kicked out, and that's the end of that. The noobs don't know that they can just kick the D3 out of the room. Instead they shut the whole thing down ending the fun for everybody. That's not such a big deal right now, the game is new , lots of ppl are on. But it won't always be like that.

Now I've seen some of these noob rooms go for 4 or 5 hours ,(I 've seen one go all day) with one person leaving and another person coming, and everyone's having fun, until some person with considerably more skill (and they know they have more skill) joins the room and ruins the fun.

I'm all about building the SC community, I think the bigger it is the longer it will last, the more new versions we will get. I want to see new players enjoy the game and last long enough to become good players. But it is easy to get discouraged and put the game down all together, after being manhandled, then obliterated by some advanced player.

Now I can understand if the D3 joins the room because there's simply no other rooms, okay, but the D3 will have a sense of the skill of the players once he's played one or two. Lower the gear a little,.Why senselessly crush everybody into oblivion. It would be like a professional athlete playing his hardest against a bunch of high school noobs. LOL what is the D3 proving :-) Why not use the opportunity to share knowledge and techniques with the noobs? What not use the opportunity to practice moves and techniques that you need to get better at? Some opportunities are good training opportunities for both sides, why not take advantage of that?

Otherwise if you're that hungry for blood, go find some B's or some A's to play. See how it feels to have the shoe on the other foot LOL. And no matter how good you are, there is always somebody somewhere that can kick your @$$ go find that person instead of ruining a fun room with a bunch of new players , who are not just new to SC5 but new to Soul Calibur series and are just really starting out. Show a little sportsmanship. Is sportmanship such a bad thing? Or at the very least go pick on somebody your own size LOL.

Not unless you're the kind of cat that just likes to beat up on those players that you know are weaker than you. They have a couple of words for those kind of ppl where I'm from: Bully and Coward
 
Bleeding Heart Post

This is just pathetic. I'm sorry, there are no other words for it. You spent so much time crafting a "happy noob utopia ruined by people who know how to play" in that post, you forgot 3 things.

First: Online rank doesn't mean anything. I'm sorry, it doesn't.

Second: There are no "professionals" at SC. Nobody makes their living playing the game. So your sports comparisons are off-base.

Third: The game is built on the premise of head to head competition. "Going easy" is the best way to stunt someones growth. If they want to get better, getting an ass beating is the best way to encourage growth. If they don't understand why they lose, they can ask, and most players are more than happy to help them level up (myself included).

If people want to have casual games, then they can kick people, make private slots. They have the power and the control to control their own experience.

We have words for people who make social services out of games built on clear cut winning and losing (as the ends of the game) where I'm from: Ignorant and Pathetic.
 
Not unless you're the kind of cat that just likes to beat up on those players that you know are weaker than you. They have a couple of words for those kind of ppl where I'm from: Bully and Coward
I like to do this on SCIV online (haven't tried SCV online) because some of those players will be willing to learn and improve more readily than mid-level players who have misplaced pride in their 'skills'. Also, are you seriously using rank to grade players online? When I get Xbl in my flat, I will be an E5 and I'm competing at Cannes this week.
 
I just started playing Ranked today so i have been a steady E5 since the 31st of January but im sure i play on an A3 or better level. So your Rank doesn't say anything about your level honestly.
 
Online seems amazingly good. Matches I've had with US and Canada players were more laggy but still playable. Any of you N/S America guys want some games?
 
A bit off topic, but I just want to point out something.

"There’s nothing in this world more loathsome and repugnant than a flip-flopper. As we are reminded in every national election cycle, true leaders never change their minds, and they’re never, ever wrong."


That's not really the way a leader should act, you should be flexible and willing to admit that you are wrong, and always willing to change your opinion if you are wrong.
 
This is just pathetic. I'm sorry, there are no other words for it. You spent so much time crafting a "happy noob utopia ruined by people who know how to play" in that post, you forgot 3 things.

First: Online rank doesn't mean anything. I'm sorry, it doesn't.

Second: There are no "professionals" at SC. Nobody makes their living playing the game. So your sports comparisons are off-base.

Third: The game is built on the premise of head to head competition. "Going easy" is the best way to stunt someones growth. If they want to get better, getting an ass beating is the best way to encourage growth. If they don't understand why they lose, they can ask, and most players are more than happy to help them level up (myself included).

If people want to have casual games, then they can kick people, make private slots. They have the power and the control to control their own experience.

We have words for people who make social services out of games built on clear cut winning and losing (as the ends of the game) where I'm from: Ignorant and Pathetic.

So Very Sorry IdleMind, didn't intend to offend you. I see some of your points. You are definitely correct in terms of making private rooms, kicking people and such. No problem there., Just so we're clear and I understand where you're coming from and the kind of player (and consequently person) you are.

You personally enjoy demolishing beginning players who are new to the game and players who you know you have considerably more skill than and don't stand a chance of winning? Correct?

You are the type of player who intentionally looks for rooms that have players with much less skill than you, so that you can show how great you are by crushing the considerably less skilled players into oblivion one by one over and over again. Correct?

You enjoy going into a room obviously full of noobs and by your sheer power and pitbull knowledge of the game shutting the room down. Is that correct?

You could care less whether you intimidate a noob from ever picking up SC again after a few sessions with you. Because if they're too weak to be humiliated by a great player such as your self, too bad for them, they wouldn't make decent players anyway correct?

As far as you're concerned the Internet is a cruel place and if you can't take getting your ass whooped, or getting humiliated in front of your friends then why the fuck login right?

As far as you're concerned this game is built on head to head competition
and good sportsmanship has absolutely nothing to do with the online
experience or SC. Crush the weak, kill the women and children. Correct?


There are many thousands of ppl on SC5 right now that are properly described by the above statements. This appears to be exactly where you are coming from also. Am I correct?

In fact, IdleMind you are in the majority if you agree with the above positions. but then again the Internet is full of bullies and cowards that hide behind the anonymity of online. They prey on the weak and run from the strong. And then rationalize that rank doesn't matter. Bullying is a way of life for many ppl around the world, so I'm not mad at you. I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing. In my posts I'm describing the behavior of online bullies and cowards. Now if that describe s you, its all good Bullies and coward are real and a normal part of real life, and the little punk ass weaklings that log into SC5 for the first time can learn a lot from a good ass whoopin at the hands of someone such as you self. Hey if somone gets their ass whooped online don't come crying to you. Right?

I just want to know so I won't ignorantly and pathetically barge into your posts anymore, and so I know what to expect from you if we meet online.

And IdleMind you're right about me, I'm definitely a bleeding heart, I don't pick on the weak, I don't beat women and children, I help the poor, I keep my word, Honor is important, I tend to the wounded and down trodden, and respect the agency of others. Its a thing all of us Samurai have in common, its called the 'code', Bushido the way of the warrior..... Like my father before me, and his father before him, I am Samurai....
 

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