Hate Speech: When Worlds Collide (Revisited)

There’s nothing in this world more loathsome and repugnant than a flip-flopper. As we are reminded in every national election cycle, true leaders never change their minds, and they’re never, ever wrong. And I, of course, am a true leader, so please keep that in mind this week as we take another look at the function and implications of online play.

While I do indeed stand by everything I’ve previously said on the subject, the shockingly decent netplay afforded us by SC5 definitely warrants a new round of consideration regarding what benefits it ultimately provides us, the limits of its usefulness, and how far it can take us in our development as players.


Legitimately Playable Netcode (and Other Signs of the Apocalypse)

As we all know, when space aliens came down from on high and taught the ancient Mayans about science, mathematics, pyramid building, and online fighting games, it was with the understanding that they would closely guard these secrets until the end of days. With the end times now upon us, however—it’s 2012, after all—we finally have access to online play in a 3D game that isn’t patently terrible. In fact, it’s quite good . . . deceptively so, at times. That being the case, let’s dive back into what online play is and is not.

In the interest of fairness, a rebuttal to the above point.
First and foremost, online play is still not actual SCV, despite the fact that it approximates the actual (read: offline) gameplay experience far more faithfully than its predecessor ever could. The distinctions are, of course, subtle, but they’re nonetheless important. A multitude of online “lag tactics” still exist. Certain lows become much more difficult to block on reaction, some setups which require precision timing to defeat become entirely more solid than in fact they are in offline play, and numerous other small yet significant discrepancies come into play.

Despite all that, however, SCV’s enhanced netcode does allow for a nontrivial degree of reaction-based play, and tactics that are effective offline will generally work online as well. This becomes truer for semi-local matches. While I’ve had cross-country connections that would characterize as pretty damn good, I’ve had matches with people in my part of Norcal that are positively phenomenal. Whether almost-as-good-as-offline or just unexpectedly good, given the circumstances, almost any match that isn’t absolutely crippled by lag spikes and disconnects can serve as a useful training tool because the fundamental psychological elements of SCV play now remain largely intact when translated into the online realm. This becomes even truer when players enter into a gentlemen’s agreement of sorts, endeavoring to play in a manner that stays as true as possible to the sort of offline play seen in tournaments.

Fisticuffs.jpg
Neither Pyrrha nor Pyrrha Omega (above) will be spamming out 1A in this match!
Even when that isn’t the case—against someone hell-bent on laming you out with moves and setups of dubious offline legitimacy, let’s say—simply playing online in all sorts of matches definitely increases the number of characters and strategies to which you are exposed. This can be hugely beneficial to players whose regions lack representatives for popular characters. For example, it’s prohibitively unlikely that anyone will be winning a major tournament without going through at least a few Pyrrhas, Pyrrha Omegas, and Natsus, but what if nobody in your local scene plays those characters? SCV’s improved netcode allows us to seek out those characters online and actually begin getting a rudimentary sense of what their moves look like, what their general playstyle might be, and how to counter those things. While imperfect, it’s a hell of a lot better than going in totally blind, and we would be fools not to make use of that.

The Pitfalls

So we’ve established that online SCV is comparatively amazing. What’s more, the gruesomely terrible online play we had in SCIV was still enough to give rise to mutant freaks like Woahhzz. Taken together, then, shouldn’t this new online play just be taken as perfectly legitimate?

tumblr_ljehglndnh1qhzzwf.gif
Of course not.

SCV online is incredibly useful for the reasons I’ve outlined above, and it’s enjoyable, too, to the point that I find myself playing quite a bit of it without ever getting so angry that I want to murder whoever thought it’d be a good idea to run games that require 1/60th of a second timing over a DSL connection that was already behind the curve in 1998. Despite that, there’s still a level of engagement and complexity that only instantaneous offline play can really provide. Just as importantly, though, there are certain elements already rising within the “online SCV culture” that we should guard against, lest they drastically interfere with our ability to become better players.

Of those elements, perhaps the most prominent comes from the game’s benignly cruel insistence on keeping track of all one’s wins and losses. While this is useful information to have, in a sense, it’s also somewhat dangerous in that it confers a significance to what should essentially be casual matches that frankly isn’t deserved. Hell, I catch myself getting entirely too worked up about these things from time to time, too. Just recently I played a ranked match against a player whose connection began fluctuating wildly from five bars to one, and back again. This shifting, pausing, stopping, and starting nearly destroyed my fragile little mind, and in the end I lost to silly stuff, dropping my overall win ratio to 93%. I was livid for almost three seconds, which was an eternity, given the circumstances, but that’s the sort of wildly irrational response that this level of stat-tracking elicits.

charts-and-graphs.jpg
Numbers never lie.
If any of us, myself most certainly included, make the mistake of lending too much credence to these sorts of numbers, we run the quite real risk of failing to push ourselves. If every win and loss is tracked forever, then every win and loss somehow matters, effectively erasing the concept of casual play. Unfortunately, casual play is absolutely essential to improvement. Without a no-stakes environment, it’s impossible to test out new characters, try new things, and so on, all of which is the key to getting the most out of online play. The only solution to this is to really embrace the notion that online play, while certainly good enough to help us improve, remains subordinate to offline play. Also, and more importantly, all online play is by definition casual play. This mindset is necessary in order to avoid both picking up online habits that will get you killed offline, and also as a general means to learn and improve.


Taking Your Beatings

As frustrating as it is to lose, particularly when the game remembers every mistake you make for the rest of eternity, losing remains the single most effective way to become a better player, and this is true both online and offline. In fact, the best potential upside of SCV’s online play is that it affords everyone the opportunity to go out and lose to new people and new characters in varied and intriguing ways.

During the first couple of months of both SCIII and SCIV, for example, I was beaten mercilessly, often by people who I was used to dispatching with relative ease. That’s simply the nature of the beast; a new game means an extended period of learning and adjustment. Luckily for us, however, we finally have a game wherein the online component is solid enough to allow us to take meaningful losses, reflect on them, and ultimately get mo’ better, mo’ faster. By keeping the relative value of online play in perspective and remaining steadfastly unafraid to get totally shined up on occasion, all of us can speed up the learning process and have a great deal of fun in the process.

Homework:

Tell me about your online experiences thus far. Are you finding it as potentially beneficial as I am, or is it already devolving into a cesspool of lag tactics and other garbage? What are the pros and cons?
Also, find some faux pro online and send him to 8wr. I’ve managed to get a few people against whom I’ve fought to come check out the community here—online play is an excellent way to add new blood to our community.

Finally, grab me on psn and help me wring all traces of respectability out of my win/loss record: bh8ffs

@Original_Hater
 
His heart should be out of blood by now.

I've received some pretty good handjobs on the internet, but the above one has to be the best one I've ever gotten.

Just when I think I'm self absorbed, someone comes along and proves to me I have a long way to go.

Playing to win means I kick kittens, kill babies and generally don't love anyone. Why, I just slapped my girlfriend for not making my sandwich the correct ratio of meat to bread. She deserved it clearly.

Also, I'm far from anonymous. You can find me at just about any major tournament on the east coast, and at EVO every year. I don't hide behind my keyboard, and I'll say just the same to you in person: You are pathetic.
 
I've received some pretty good handjobs on the internet, but the above one has to be the best one I've ever gotten.

Just when I think I'm self absorbed, someone comes along and proves to me I have a long way to go.

Playing to win means I kick kittens, kill babies and generally don't love anyone. Why, I just slapped my girlfriend for not making my sandwich the correct ratio of meat to bread. She deserved it clearly.

Also, I'm far from anonymous. You can find me at just about any major tournament on the east coast, and at EVO every year. I don't hide behind my keyboard, and I'll say just the same to you in person: You are pathetic.

1) I don't hide behind keyboards. Like you I'm at tournaments frequently, but my tournament games are Virtua Fighter and UFC 2010. I'm more or less fresh onto the SC scene. I've played SC here and there in the past, but only now does online warrant a little more attention.

2)I noticed in your response you simply dodged my questions. Should I repeat them? I can summarize them for you. Are you the kind of player that seeks out and punishes and destroys noobs, when you know they are totally out matched? Does Bully fit you? A simple yes or no will suffice. I could careless about your reputation at tournaments, we haven't met so it doesn't mean anything to me. However, I can compare you to a set of skills that I am familar with. Do you play at the level of Kayane, below, or above? A simple response is also all that's needed in this instance.

3) Would the name calling, "I mean calling a perfect stranger pathetic" occur before or after our match? You are self absorbed, nothing wrong with knowing who you are and being proud of it. On the other hand you have no idea who I am, and simply because I don't prey on or punish new players for daring to pick up the game I get labelled pathetic. You do realize that is the trademark of most bullies: name calling LOL. No worries mate, you can call me any name you choose. If you play anything like you post I don't think we'll have any problems.

I tell you what Idle, from your response to me, I must assume my previous post is dead on. I tell you why, its obvious I'm relatively new to 8way run, haven't spent much time here, obviously I am a noob at least in some respects, and true to form you welcome my good intentions by calling me ( a perfect stranger) pathetic... LOL You can always tell
the men, from the boys. The little boys have no manners and are in constant need of being taught a lesson.

I know you play like you post, you attack me and have no idea what my skillset is, who I am or where I've been, or what I'm capable of. You jump to juvenile conclusions. You're so self absorbed you rush right in where the brave dare not go :) I'm guessing you're one of those brute force rush down types that overwhelm without the least bit of finesse. I'm glad you're not truly representative of the SC community. Some of the ppl I've met in France, London, and the Aussies, have a real sense of hospitality. They have manners, they know how to talk to potential players and noobs. I guess its a matter of upbringing , maybe parents on the East-Coast don't teach their little boys manners. That's how they grow up to be bullies. And the bullies are normally accompanied by a couple of lackys that are bully wannabes, they often respond to posts in little groups of two or three.

Let's start over,

Hi IdleMind, You can call me SensiPo I'm pleased to meet you. I'm relatively new here. I just bought SC5 its an awesome game, lots of improvements over SCIV from what I understand. Are you on PSN? Maybe we could hook up sometimes LOL. I'm sure you could teach me a thing or two:sc1yos1:
 

You are like a handjob giving machine. I think I love you.

I didn't address your concerns, because frankly, they are all just vehicles for you to get outraged over shit that is well within people's control. If you wish to infer my social traits based on actions you imagine I take in a game, then you sir are a nutjob.

Just like a scientist doesn't stoop to debate creationists, an actual logical person doesn't argue with people for whom emotional involvement and "ethics" get involved in a fucking video game built on competition. Quite simply, you are beneath me.

Also, do some history homework. RL Samurai were classist assholes who took a code of behavior too far to illogical extremes. So I guess in that sense, it's fitting for me to say; you should do us all a favor and kill yourself. I mean commit seppuku.
 
SinseiPo, please continue trying to sound intelligent. I'm dying over here.

Hey man, welcome. In all seriousness, welcome to the Calibur scene. I'm not sure how experienced you are in the offline tournament scene, but it's pretty clear that you don't have an understanding of the difference between a tournament player and an online player. This has been outlined in the first version of Hate Speech: When Worlds Collide, but I'll make a brief paraphrase.

Most online netcodes have been very bad in the past for 3d fighters, and the obvious limits of online play were pretty much understood by all. Because of this, tournament players do not use online play, at least seriously, if they're looking to improve. This is because it was inconsistent - and tournament play is all about consistency. They use live sessions with their local scene, or travel to tournaments, where they're exposed to a wide array of first class styles and exposure to character play at high level that otherwise wouldn't have been available to them.

Now, things are different. The netcode is playable! This is an amazing thing, but it does not change the fact that online - however amazing that is it, is still inconsistent. Any time you get a ping hiccup or a network error or a dropped match, that's inconsistency. Tournament players recognize that training mode and local sessions are still best to improve one's game. What I'm getting at is: a lot of tourney level players don't play Ranked online. They could only play Player Matches, or even not online much at all!

I'm E5, and I could probably wipe the floor with most A's.

This isn't even part of the big picture, though. Fighting games, in nature, are about beating the opponent. They're about reducing your opponent's lifebar to zero. That's the big obstacle you're looking to overcome. You must do this by any means necessary. Doing this means learning the game. In order to understand the game, you must lose. You must lose - A LOT. This prompts one to say: "Why did I lose?"

Some people ask this question, and some people don't. The people who ask this question are the ones who improve. Those that scream and whine about it, or blame it on the game, or are only playing for Rank, are usually left far behind their curious online counterparts.

Losing teaches you "You're doing something wrong. Fix it."

All serious Calibur players are willing to do what they need to in order to win games. If you encounter a newb, it's your choice whether you want to be kind and let them get a round, or crush them utterly. You're doing yourself a disservice, though, in being kind. Habits like that come back to bite you when tournament time rolls around. In game, you must always be focused, and do your best. There is a clear answer to every problem you encounter in the game. It's your job as a player to find it. If you're not up to snuff, go back to the drawing board and see what you did wrong.

There's no need for this sissy subjective presumptuous bullshit about anyone else's personality, play style, or ethics. Grow some balls and present your argument cleanly, and without weasel words in mind to sway your reader. I don't know who you thought that "women and children" crap would be cute, or help your point, but I will say at the very least: it did not.
 
I crush noobs beneath my mighty thumbs for they are not worthy of the usage of my index finger!!

Where was all these kind hearted people when I was growing up? I needed someone to coddle my ego so I could have turned into the "OMG WHY YOU NO LET ME PUSH BUTTONS TIL YOU DIE" type of people that are so prominent on the Internet.
 
SinseiPo, please continue trying to sound intelligent. I'm dying over here.

Hey man, welcome. In all seriousness, welcome to the Calibur scene. I'm not sure how experienced you are in the offline tournament scene, but it's pretty clear that you don't have an understanding of the difference between a tournament player and an online player. This has been outlined in the first version of Hate Speech: When Worlds Collide, but I'll make a brief paraphrase.

Most online netcodes have been very bad in the past for 3d fighters, and the obvious limits of online play were pretty much understood by all. Because of this, tournament players do not use online play, at least seriously, if they're looking to improve. This is because it was inconsistent - and tournament play is all about consistency. They use live sessions with their local scene, or travel to tournaments, where they're exposed to a wide array of first class styles and exposure to character play at high level that otherwise wouldn't have been available to them.

Now, things are different. The netcode is playable! This is an amazing thing, but it does not change the fact that online - however amazing that is it, is still inconsistent. Any time you get a ping hiccup or a network error or a dropped match, that's inconsistency. Tournament players recognize that training mode and local sessions are still best to improve one's game. What I'm getting at is: a lot of tourney level players don't play Ranked online. They could only play Player Matches, or even not online much at all!

I'm E5, and I could probably wipe the floor with most A's.

This isn't even part of the big picture, though. Fighting games, in nature, are about beating the opponent. They're about reducing your opponent's lifebar to zero. That's the big obstacle you're looking to overcome. You must do this by any means necessary. Doing this means learning the game. In order to understand the game, you must lose. You must lose - A LOT. This prompts one to say: "Why did I lose?"

Some people ask this question, and some people don't. The people who ask this question are the ones who improve. Those that scream and whine about it, or blame it on the game, or are only playing for Rank, are usually left far behind their curious online counterparts.

Losing teaches you "You're doing something wrong. Fix it."

All serious Calibur players are willing to do what they need to in order to win games. If you encounter a newb, it's your choice whether you want to be kind and let them get a round, or crush them utterly. You're doing yourself a disservice, though, in being kind. Habits like that come back to bite you when tournament time rolls around. In game, you must always be focused, and do your best. There is a clear answer to every problem you encounter in the game. It's your job as a player to find it. If you're not up to snuff, go back to the drawing board and see what you did wrong.

There's no need for this sissy subjective presumptuous bullshit about anyone else's personality, play style, or ethics. Grow some balls and present your argument cleanly, and without weasel words in mind to sway your reader. I don't know who you thought that "women and children" crap would be cute, or help your point, but I will say at the very least: it did not.

Nightblade thanks for the welcome. I'm from the Virtua Fighter world, I know online will nver compete with offline. So your words are not wasted. Of course I also know that online rank doesn't tell the story. And if you cats are not into sportsmanship that's okay with me , as long as you let a brutha know. Now I know. Which confirms my theory. Its clear what the etiquette is in place here, its all good. Maybe after we meet live , have a friendly conversation, and match or two, respect will be in order and a few lessons may be learned.

Anyway., Thanks for the welcome., see you cats offline. I do know all of you, but you don't me, I'll introduce myself after we've played. :-)
 
Anyway., Thanks for the welcome., see you cats offline. I do know all of you, but you don't me, I'll introduce myself after we've played. :-)

For a guy raging against the injustice of "anonymous online bullies" you certainly do alot of hiding. You must be a stealth samurai, or an anonymous online bleeding heart. In either case, you are skilled at backpedaling. You must also play Tekken.
 
I play online a lot and I find the netcode is pretty good most of the time. I prefer 4 and 5 bars, but I'll play some 3's. As far as skill goes there are beginners and advanced players playing Ranked and Global Colosseo. I usually only play 'player mode' online with friends. Nothing beats playing offline next to someone. I've never lost a match online in SCV due to lag.
 
I honestly don't get why beating someone mercilessly in the game -- a game about mercilessly beating the crap out of your opponent -- is all of a sudden 'without ethics or etiquette'.

I would like to think of myself as a nice guy, but if you keep spamming moves at disadvantage, I really don't care if I win by BB-ing you all day. I also would want another player to do that to me if I keep doing punishable moves. That's the only way I would know if something is wrong.

However, I'll gladly tell you why you lost. I think most competent players, with the exception of the handful of real pricks, will tell you exactly what you lost to or why you lost. I think this is the true way of growing the community at large -- helping newcomers get into the game and understand why they lose to bring them up to speed as fast as possible.

2 cents.
 
Playing online vs different people using different characters helps a lot when it comes to learning the traits and patterns of each character. You don't get all of the detail online but it is useful. Especially if you don't have the time to drive to every tournament to get practice.
 
I don't think playing 'soft' is disrespectful - depends how you are doing it - no low skilled is going to enjoy rush-down with no time to practice getting basic movement / b&b down. If it looks like i'm playing soft i'm trying to get execution down or improve some other part of my play - often times which I will not get to practice in such a way against a more evenly matched opponent (as i'll probably be blocking or otherwise evading lol).

As long as you still try to 'win' overall.. the opponent is still learning from that loss and hey if they start to bring it you up the gear.. besides it's Global Colosseum / random / player matches - isn't that the point - to use this for trying new shit out?
 
Nightblade thanks for the welcome. I'm from the Virtua Fighter world, I know online will nver compete with offline. So your words are not wasted. Of course I also know that online rank doesn't tell the story. And if you cats are not into sportsmanship that's okay with me , as long as you let a brutha know. Now I know. Which confirms my theory. Its clear what the etiquette is in place here, its all good. Maybe after we meet live , have a friendly conversation, and match or two, respect will be in order and a few lessons may be learned.

Anyway., Thanks for the welcome., see you cats offline. I do know all of you, but you don't me, I'll introduce myself after we've played. :-)

I nominate this guy for the Best Sportsmanship award at the next major tournament.
 

Live streams

2 Viewers
melenakhan
melenakhan
[FR] Soul calibur 6- parce que soul calibur 3 c'etait trop facile
1 Viewers
oji_x_din
oji_x_din
Good games oji on the game

Forum statistics

Threads
14,902
Messages
677,142
Members
17,263
Latest member
ZinniaBagel
Back
Top Bottom