Is a Nightmare nerf coming? =(

Engared said:
As i have said previously in my posts, its was a safer option to take if you did not know your opponent's intentions. Because you would still get the 50/50 mix-up on your opponent instead of the guarantee, or force your opponent to defend as your are on advantage. While a full step is like betting the house that your opponent would whiff; step-g was a safer bet. Smaller reward but a safer bet and a potential reward all the same.

We used full step as well when we predicted a non-tracking vertical or in a step set-up. It is obviously superior to step-g if you guessed correctly but if you played people who actively killed your step; you would be hit by CH step killers constantly and put you behind your opponent quite quickly.

With step-g, your opponent is not being rewarded as much from his slower big damage step killers and as such you will not fall behind as quickly.

And step-g was part of how Safemare in SC4 operated.

And with step-g, you can minimize the risk of stepping TAS B. With full step, though I believe you get 1A or 44B (or back throw, i cannot remember) guaranteed, if you mess up; you are going to get hit for a ton of damage. With step-g, I believe you get 3B guaranteed and will still block TAS B if you mistime the step.
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Like I said you would have to show me.

From my understanding NM's eventually began to rely more on step attack than step g. Yes Step G is a safer option, but it gives less opportunities for whiff punishment. This is why I stopped using it for whiff punishment and simply used it for throw/mid setup. If you want to maximize damage you risk step attack.

Bottom line Step G was terrible for whiff punishment as Nightmare you got very damage from it. TAS B is your example which you can't 100% verify. But you won't whiff punish BB or 3Bs or other relatively fast horizontals with 3B/33B using it.

Hell that's why I didn't even bother with QS4G. If I wanted to step G a better option would be to backdash G. Because at least in that instance you fully backdash, as opposed to canceling step by pressing G and sometimes having horizontals track the evade.

So to me step G wasn't a big deal. Safemare was a strat for specific match-ups, but I hardly saw it utilized later in the game's life. NM players took more risks.
 
KingAce said:
Like I said you would have to show me.

From my understanding NM's eventually began to rely more on step attack than step g. Yes Step G is a safer option, but it gives less opportunities for whiff punishment. This is why I stopped using it for whiff punishment and simply used it for throw/mid setup. If you want to maximize damage you risk step attack.

Bottom line Step G was terrible for whiff punishment as Nightmare you got very damage from it. TAS B is your example which you can't 100% verify. But you won't whiff punish BB or 3Bs or other relatively fast horizontals with 3B/33B using it.

Hell that's why I didn't even bother with QS4G. If I wanted to step G a better option would be to backdash G. Because at least in that instance you fully backdash, as opposed to canceling step by pressing G and sometimes having horizontals track the evade.

So to me step G wasn't a big deal. Safemare was a strat for specific match-ups, but I hardly saw it utilized later in the game's life. NM players took more risks.
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In SC5, Step G is ass btw. So i agree with you about that in SC5.

But i keep saying that with Step-G I am sacrificing guaranteed damage in a lot of cases and trading it for a large amount of frame advantage and more safety. And I am not doing it all the time as well.

But it was useful and not useless like you seem to think it is.

My ratio in the last year of SC4 of Full step vs Step G was about 60/40 in close ranged stepping situations.
 
So we traded grab damage for 66b being 0 or + on block? I'm fine with that. I will admit the grab damage was kind of meh, but that's fine. Grabs can still be scary, especially flapjacks. Plus 66B is even better now!
 
Daw man... I wanted them to at least nerf the speed Nightmare's CE had.
Literally there was almost no startup time..... siiighhhh.....
 
Fame96 said:
Okay nightmare didn't get hit too hard at all. I can rest easy.
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Rest easy? Don't know how you can sleep at night knowing you can beat better players with such a broken character.

Oh well, maybe after NM wins 2 more major tournies in a row they'll release a second patch.
 
But why nerf the throws when they are so important to the character style? I didn't see Astaroth getting his throws nerfed.
 
srsgamer87 said:
Rest easy? Don't know how you can sleep at night knowing you can beat better players with such a broken character.

Oh well, maybe after NM wins 2 more major tournies in a row they'll release a second patch.
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Good I hope so.

But Nightmare will keep on winning after that. Because some of the best players in the world play Nightmare. So get used to it.
 
Vlaster said:
You want some proper arguments?, well the same ppl that always won, placed high tournaments in previous SCs are now doing the same winning, placing high in tournaments, LOL
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They were competitive when Nightmare was ass. So what happens when you make him competent?
 
I'm not liking the changes one bit(his grabs were completely fine, his NSS doesn't need to be even more unsafe, and 66B being better on block is beyond arbitrary) but whatever, no more NSS~G and more flapjacks it is. However, the implications of the Back-Step~G nerf worry the hell outta me. Guess I'll have to test it out before I go all panic mode but it just seems fatal for Mare's spacing game >_>...
 
Goofy said:
I'm not liking the changes one bit(his grabs were completely fine, his NSS doesn't need to be even more unsafe, and 66B being better on block is beyond arbitrary) but whatever, no more NSS~G and more flapjacks it is. However, the implications of the Back-Step~G nerf worry the hell outta me. Guess I'll have to test it out before I go all panic mode but it just seems fatal for Mare's spacing game >_>...
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It should be okay <Fingers crossed, was very pessimistic yesterday>. It makes it more difficult for opponents to space Nightmare as well do not forget.

Edit: The trick now will be to keep your opponent out of your zone. I'm developing a baiting playstyle with Nightmare's fastest recovering moves and whiffing on purpose.

Edit 2: Thermidor's style of 3B spam works very well as well :D
 
Engared said:
It should be okay <Fingers crossed, was very pessimistic yesterday>. It makes it more difficult for opponents to space Nightmare as well do not forget.
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Lol thanks, I'm ridin on pessimism too atm and I completely ignored that side of it. Truth be told though, the only character I had spacing issues with was Astaroth and it wasn't that bad. All in all, I can't help but think this change to backstep~G will do more harm than good for Nightmare but I'll cross my fingers and hope.
 
Goofy said:
Lol thanks, I'm ridin on pessimism too atm and I completely ignored that side of it. Truth be told though, the only character I had spacing issues with was Astaroth and it wasn't that bad. All in all, I can't help but think this change to backstep~G will do more harm than good for Nightmare but I'll cross my fingers and hope.
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I took special notice of how many times I would have been hit by the change today while playing and it was not as much as I suspected. NM's backstep distance is still huge and you can step cancel with attacks still so if your opponent is throwing a string out and the first whiffs, smash him in the head before the second attack hits :).
 
Goofy said:
However, the implications of the Back-Step~G nerf worry the hell outta me. Guess I'll have to test it out before I go all panic mode but it just seems fatal for Mare's spacing game >_>...
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Worry not.
Maybe they will give 1-3 uncancelable frames more on backdash. That wont be that bad.
If they will give like 10 frames more, lol, then you will always have 45A_B_K~G if they leave it as it is now haha.
 
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