CheeseOfTheDay
[10] Knight
no, too slow, even faster AA will work only on few characters
Official Natsu 1.02 Patch Changes Discussion
- Thread starter Boogieman
- Start date
Neoshinji
[09] Warrior
I have some ideas that I am going to try to see if I can test out tonight. Trying to see how else we can use FC A+B... like with blocked PO B... ect.
Pat728
[09] Warrior
In training mode, I did bomb > CE > air grab and it did about 100 damage. I remember this doing about 130+ before though, but I thought none of these moves changed. Am I seeing things?
AkuSokuZan
[09] Warrior
I don't think FC A+B is worth using anymore. I forget what FC A+B gets on hit, but a funny fact is if you get it on CH, you can do the 6A+B4, PO A:6 combo. So both would get you similar CH stuns to combo after, but..
FC A+B is i16 NOT counting iFC frames, and has crappy range.
WS K is i14, but now linear.
Not sure if FC A+B tracks to any side, but it'd be funny to get CH stun from catching steppers *if* it tracked (which I doubt).
CH WS K, 6A+B4 PO, PO A:6, 3KKK, 44KK still works, should probably only be used if you see a wall. Without wall, it still gives you BT oki (WRR K_WRR throw_WRR BT A+B) which is somewhat gimmicky, but catches people not knowing what's going on.
Otherwise ending the 3KKK in combo with 1A does more damage and gives you better oki, where 66B4 PO is forced block for POR pressure or whatever. Can probably pressure with 4A+B6 POR but I'm not sure about the range, all i know is 66B reaches as they tech. Run up throw is always an option too, as always.
I like the idea of 2A resetting after PO A:6 in combo, and there's another way to reset similar to SC4.
i.e., CH WS K, 6A+B4 PO, PO A:6, 3KK WR options:
-WR BBB: after 3KK on hit, WR BBB should be uninterruptable, just like SC4. (Edit: 3KK WR B in combo trades with Natsu's A i10. 3KK regular hit WR B loses to Natsu's A i10 and Cervy aB i11, beats out 2A i12).
-WR 66B+G, 66A+G BE.
-Nothing else I see from WR.. WR K jumps 2As, WR A is old A6 but not solid enough iirc.
-ASZ
FC A+B is i16 NOT counting iFC frames, and has crappy range.
WS K is i14, but now linear.
Not sure if FC A+B tracks to any side, but it'd be funny to get CH stun from catching steppers *if* it tracked (which I doubt).
CH WS K, 6A+B4 PO, PO A:6, 3KKK, 44KK still works, should probably only be used if you see a wall. Without wall, it still gives you BT oki (WRR K_WRR throw_WRR BT A+B) which is somewhat gimmicky, but catches people not knowing what's going on.
Otherwise ending the 3KKK in combo with 1A does more damage and gives you better oki, where 66B4 PO is forced block for POR pressure or whatever. Can probably pressure with 4A+B6 POR but I'm not sure about the range, all i know is 66B reaches as they tech. Run up throw is always an option too, as always.
I like the idea of 2A resetting after PO A:6 in combo, and there's another way to reset similar to SC4.
i.e., CH WS K, 6A+B4 PO, PO A:6, 3KK WR options:
-WR BBB: after 3KK on hit, WR BBB should be uninterruptable, just like SC4. (Edit: 3KK WR B in combo trades with Natsu's A i10. 3KK regular hit WR B loses to Natsu's A i10 and Cervy aB i11, beats out 2A i12).
-WR 66B+G, 66A+G BE.
-Nothing else I see from WR.. WR K jumps 2As, WR A is old A6 but not solid enough iirc.
-ASZ
Protoman
[09] Warrior
Natsu's guard damage usually consists of
66B
66B BE
66AB
PO K
PO B
I have no idea how much A+B does. Does it even do any?
And that's about it. And none of it does a lot in particular.
8A+B and 6AB are really good guard damage.
8A+B is usually entirely safe against most of the cast- especially at tip range.
6AB is -13 on block so its relatively safe. Just mix it up with 6A (-7?) and 6AK (-8?).
66B
66B BE
66AB
PO K
PO B
I have no idea how much A+B does. Does it even do any?
And that's about it. And none of it does a lot in particular.
8A+B and 6AB are really good guard damage.
8A+B is usually entirely safe against most of the cast- especially at tip range.
6AB is -13 on block so its relatively safe. Just mix it up with 6A (-7?) and 6AK (-8?).
AkuSokuZan
[09] Warrior
WR BBB breaks in 6
PO B breaks in 7
8A+B breaks in 8
B[K] breaks in 8
66B BE breaks in 8.5
44K breaks in 10
44B breaks in 10
22B breaks in 10
66B_66B4 breaks in 11
Hover B breaks in 11
66AB in 11.5
6AK breaks in 12.5
33K breaks in 12.5
WS B breaks in 13
6B breaks in 16
6A breaks in 16
A+B will get meter flashing, but will never break.
-ASZ
PO B breaks in 7
8A+B breaks in 8
B[K] breaks in 8
66B BE breaks in 8.5
44K breaks in 10
44B breaks in 10
22B breaks in 10
66B_66B4 breaks in 11
Hover B breaks in 11
66AB in 11.5
6AK breaks in 12.5
33K breaks in 12.5
WS B breaks in 13
6B breaks in 16
6A breaks in 16
A+B will get meter flashing, but will never break.
-ASZ
TaXi
[09] Warrior
just some points:
- 6AB breaks in 7.
- FC A+B doesn't track.
- you can avoid 44K after 3KKK in the CH combo by teching forward.
- 6AB breaks in 7.
- FC A+B doesn't track.
- you can avoid 44K after 3KKK in the CH combo by teching forward.
AkuSokuZan
[09] Warrior
That's interesting, wonder if there's any guaranteed way to get 44KKK for wall now then.. or if it's as useless now like FC A+B.
-ASZ
-ASZ
Neoshinji
[09] Warrior
Wow... is the tech after 3kkk always been there or is that new?
kAb
[12] Conqueror
its always been there.
so will someone with a human test this.... so as was noted in the patch notes, to remove fuzzy guard they had make neutral jump slower, i set the training dummy to take the first hit and then set its second action to jump, i would assume this would occur on the first possible frame. this might be our use for FC A+B. near a ring edge/wall if they eat the ground hit and then tech they will eat 2A+B, the computer couldnt jump it in training, so i want to see if this is for real.
on a side note, on HOV B ground hit you can land 44KK for the highest damage, but its kind of iffy. otherwise go for 1A or WSB4A+B tech trap if they have their back to a wall/edge.
so will someone with a human test this.... so as was noted in the patch notes, to remove fuzzy guard they had make neutral jump slower, i set the training dummy to take the first hit and then set its second action to jump, i would assume this would occur on the first possible frame. this might be our use for FC A+B. near a ring edge/wall if they eat the ground hit and then tech they will eat 2A+B, the computer couldnt jump it in training, so i want to see if this is for real.
on a side note, on HOV B ground hit you can land 44KK for the highest damage, but its kind of iffy. otherwise go for 1A or WSB4A+B tech trap if they have their back to a wall/edge.
TaXi
[09] Warrior
CE dmg is reduced so presumably it hurt the combo dmg as well.
FleshMasher
[13] Hero
EEW, that's bad, but thanks for the info.
Oh shoot they can D:
No more guaranteed 44KK.
CheeseOfTheDay
[10] Knight
Idk if neutral jump is slower, path notes say that jump attacks are lower, with is noticeable (on the side note, 8K seems to be better and faster now, but i didn't checked it), also neutral jump is harder after removing fuzzy guard. Neutral jumps may be a few frames slower after recovery because you cant buffer the neutral jump, but i think it's the same speed from neutral.
About FCA+B 2A+B, you can just 9_A_B_K after ukemi, or just stand up and 9_A_B_K.
I only played for a few minutes post patch trying to find stuff BUT this is what I have so far and I don't know if it works on everyone.
CH FC a+b 3kkk 4a+b6 does around 70
CH FC a+b 3b a:6 4a+b6 does around 73
CH FC a+b a:6 works at the wall for a wall splat into BnB wall combo
CH FC a+b 3b a+b 4a+b6 hits on Asta
CH FC a+b on opponents right side or their back combos into 6a+b4 PO a:6 3kkk but it's totally not practical
I'm pretty sure when a+b is used in a combo (i.e. 2a+b a+b) it yields the same stun as it did before so we are in luck with bomb a+b combo.
CH FC a+b 3kkk 4a+b6 does around 70
CH FC a+b 3b a:6 4a+b6 does around 73
CH FC a+b a:6 works at the wall for a wall splat into BnB wall combo
CH FC a+b 3b a+b 4a+b6 hits on Asta
CH FC a+b on opponents right side or their back combos into 6a+b4 PO a:6 3kkk but it's totally not practical
I'm pretty sure when a+b is used in a combo (i.e. 2a+b a+b) it yields the same stun as it did before so we are in luck with bomb a+b combo.
CheeseOfTheDay
[10] Knight
about ch fc a+b combos, I posted on previous page some details about with characters it connects and why.
- Moderator
- #238
UnseenWombat
[14] Master
Has anyone determined what the new block stun is on windroll B?
Protoman
[09] Warrior
The only time I ever use Windroll B is as an opener against Zwei's and Ivy's that like to open with their horizontals.
Is it important? Its always been high risk. This just makes it even more risky.
Side note since I'm curious... people found the third hit hard to sidestep? I've seen some hardcore fail punishes by people who I assume don't know much about the move, but it was insanely easy to avoid.
Also, since they nerfed it a bit, they should atleast fix the hitbox issues when it hits crouching opponents. Third hit never connects. Has it always been that way?
Is it important? Its always been high risk. This just makes it even more risky.
Side note since I'm curious... people found the third hit hard to sidestep? I've seen some hardcore fail punishes by people who I assume don't know much about the move, but it was insanely easy to avoid.
Also, since they nerfed it a bit, they should atleast fix the hitbox issues when it hits crouching opponents. Third hit never connects. Has it always been that way?
- Moderator
- #240
UnseenWombat
[14] Master
No, it's not important from a strategy perspective (not that I can think of anyway). I just finished up the wiki page though and that's the only frame data I'm missing.