Official Natsu 1.02 Patch Changes Discussion

If resetting the CH WS K combo into 2A after PO A:6, just want to clarify..

66B+G and 66B BE is NOT a mixup unless someone always tries to duck a throw. Throws can still be broken and 66B BE (2nd hit) can be ducked and punished on reaction. They're just options from 2A, but don't treat throw/mid as a real mixup because it's not.

-ASZ
 
Someone has posted that 22K into 6A+B is NOT a combo, but someone with the patch has told me that they have pulled it off several times. But it wasn't 100% consistent. Does anyone share the same findings?
 
22k into 6A+B is not a combo, I've only been able to do CH 22K near wall into 3kkk 1A. CH 22K B+K WR BBB also works but it can be teched left and right.
 
I think she will do fine. She still does do a shit ton more damage than she ever did in SC2, better tools than she did in SC3, and more interesting to play than she was in SC4.

I have been trying my best to unlearn setups and combos to go for a more set up/spacing version on Natsu. With suits me fine to be honest because that is where I think old school Taki players feel most welcome. I am not even sure what her best combo was in SC2 haha. I think my favorite was WL A, 33A1 PO K (1 frame shift) ~ A. My notations are probably wrong lol.

I am personally not going to drop her... It did take me a bit to realize this, but what they nerfed wasn't what made Natsu strong in the 1st place.

I guess we are going to see less online match vids of people going crazy aggro on someone haha.
 
I mean, doing some of the combos, she still does impressive damage. WS K, 6A+B, PO A:6, 3KKK, 1A has been giving me 95 damage, give or take. Also, 22KA is 69~70 damage. So I think we should give up trying to find setups after CH 22K, seems Namco just wants us to use the full version.

A lot of people do the 6A+B PO A:6, 3KKK after Guard Break, but the properties are different now. It only works if the first hit whiffs, which is a pain to do consistently, but WS K has been guaranteed after a Guard Break for me.

Also, Natsu's 2A+B most damaging combo besides meter usage was to spike with A+B, FC A+B, 44KK/1A. Since the loss of Spikes however, the combo turns into 2A+B, A+B, 1A for 62~65 damage. While her 2A+B, PO 8B+G does 69 damage. I think Namco also wanted us to use her air throw more often here. Pardon me if some of the stuff I posted was already clearly pointed out earlier, there's so much shit to go through around here that I don't see everything.
 
Neoshinji said:
It did take me a bit to realize this, but what they nerfed wasn't what made Natsu strong in the 1st place.
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This is what I needed to hear. HOW was she supposed to be played then? I keep hearing don't use WRAAA, she can't do ch combos off of just about every move anymore, she can't this she can't that...

HOW do we play Natsu?
 
after 3KKK with an opponent pressed to the ring edge, iWS B4A+B is interesting. the WS B registers as part of the combo and if they tech in any direction after that the 4A+B launches. they can block the 4A+B but that would be a tight window to not tech and low guard on reaction. would probably open up stuff like WS B into 66B or other power mid.

the other thing that bothers me is now with the changes to A+B, what do we use to punish heavily unsafe moves. stuff like NM A+B and mitsu 66BB. even 3B isnt enough reach sometimes to hit these moves on block, and if it does hit at tip range you arent gonna get A:6. not sure about you guys but 3B A:6 is probably my most inconsistant time to use A:6 as well. any thoughts on this subject.
 
SoNG-Of-SiLeNCe said:
How? People with brains just stay down and they have no reason to get up now because she doesn't rape ground anymore.
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That is one of my questions as well, unfortunately. I do believe FC A+B still hits, but meh, I'll let this patch play out for a while and see what we can come up with. A lot of online people are still going to press buttons and ukemi for our tech traps though. But yeah, finding a solution to pair with bombs is probably our biggest issue.

But of course we can just 4A+B PO B+K etc, even if its less than desirable.
 
Afrofrog said:
I mean, doing some of the combos, she still does impressive damage. WS K, 6A+B, PO A:6, 3KKK, 1A has been giving me 95 damage.
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this is probably because you have the CH setting on, which adds CH dmg to every hit in a combo (silly namco). it should realistically do about 79 dmg, which isn't too bad too.

Neoshinji said:
I think she will do fine. She still does do a shit ton more damage than she ever did in SC2, better tools than she did in SC3, and more interesting to play than she was in SC4.

I have been trying my best to unlearn setups and combos to go for a more set up/spacing version on Natsu. With suits me fine to be honest because that is where I think old school Taki players feel most welcome.
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i'm just going to state for the record here that sc3:ae was the most evil version of taki behind sc5 pre-patch natsu. WL KKK and WS AAA NC? my god.

but i do agree that spacing will become very important... especially with 66B, 3KK, iWS K and 6A series. not much incentive to use 6A+B apart from punishing (and not on the characters with hitbox issues). also, 66B mixups remind me exactly of PO mixups in the past, haha (a whole bunch of character-specific crap to remember again).

Neoshinji said:
I am personally not going to drop her... It did take me a bit to realize this, but what they nerfed wasn't what made Natsu strong in the 1st place.
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oh come on. CH 6A+B into that whole string of doom was more evil than NC WL KKK. i will agree with you on 66B and A:6 though.
 
Lol. I remember the days when jumping lows was crazy good for Taki. WL KKK and WL A were stupid. Classic SC2 WL A 6KA 6A+K. *sniff*

@kAB: I still think A+B a pretty good punish for the wildly unsafe moves mentioned before. But if you have time for A+B, why not spend the meter and go 66B BE? It's still great on hit, and far as I can tell 1A is unavoidable after it connects.

Playing without throwing in gratuitous amounts of FC A+B's is kinda jarring. Very little incentive for people to stand up now, except 1A... Which is stupid on block. I have to say though... Been getting a lot more random grounded hits with 1A. Right now, I'm chalking that one up to the fact I rarely did it on a grounded opponent before the patch.
 
yeah 66B is probably the best punisher for anything i17 and more, and BE it if you have the meter. it's probably the best whiff punisher as well, unless you have meter to do CE (best punisher from i22 onwards).

i would actually still consider 6A+B still as a punisher; on hit the PO mixups are pretty good and if you're not fighting the ones with weird hitboxes (i need an abbreviation for this... ARIVEA?!) you can choose to do PO A:6 for a knockdown.

3KK on hit allows for some windroll mixups, so it's a good punisher as well.
 
Pretty sure she got more than WL A 6ka 6a+k

CH 22k is pretty garbage and it seems the only thing I can combo is 1a. BUT you get some pretty decent stuff with it if there are factors that limit push back. I even tried stuff with CAS making a huge freaking natsu but still nothing reached. I'll try more stuff from CH 22k later.

CH 22k a:6 W! 6a+b4 PO a:6 3kkk 1a_4a+b_44k
*Note a:6 isn't required

CH 22k 3kkk 1a
If they are at the edge.

Also I'll work on a lot more in the next couple of days. I think she is going to be fine. I'm kind of upset about the a+b nerf but whatever. Not even 2k hits after a+b, how fucking stupid is that?! Anyone know if WR aaa is affected the same way as a+b??

Still nice and spikes for oki setups still: BT a+b_99k a:6
Maybe 99k wont be so bad.
 
I decided to record a quick session in training mode with almost all of her pre-patch things.

These:
1A (Reaping Hook): decreased damage (34→30). Easier to hit the opponent in down state.
A+B (Scroll of Darkness): shortened opponent's freeze on hit.
6A+B (Assassin's Secret): 1st attack no longer stuns opponent on counter hit. Decreased 2nd attack's damage (12→10).
While standing K (Divine Cannon): lengthened freeze for performing the move. Easier to evade sideways.*
While crouching A+B (Poison Dart): no longer stuns opponent on down hit.
22 or 88B (Illusion Scroll): improved issue where 2nd attack sometimes missed after landing 1st attack.
22 or 88K.A (Storm Cloud Scroll): decreased opponent's freeze on 1st attack counter hit.
11 or 77K (Heavy Burden): launches opponent lower on hit.
During Possession a6 (Air Scroll): decreased damage (20→10).
During Possession a6(just) (Phantom Scroll): decreased damage (20→10).
During Wind Roll B.B.B (Wind Death Sault): decreased opponent's block freeze on 1st attack. This will make it easier for players to deal with the 3rd attack.
236236A+B+K (Great Curse of Arahabaki): decreased 1st attack's damage (30→20). Improved issue where 2nd and 3rd attack sometime missed after 1st attack was blocked.
*Didn't bother with worrying about evasion.

So I've got them saved to a file on my computer.
 
Anyone know if WR aaa is affected the same way as a+b??
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as i posted ,yes u can't connect anything after it just like 22_K,A or A+B.

if u want to force the 2A+B tech again, instead of FC 2A+B use k2.

@boogieman: 66B BE / 66B+G is not a good idea.Most good players know that u can hold G for guard and still press B to break a throw....while guarding.


edit:
btw is it just me, or does 22_B force a CH on normal hit...
 
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