Raphael Frame Data Discussion

Some clarification on the wiki:

Everything that hits on NH is supposed to give the same frames on CH - unless CH gives properties, like STN, SHK, LNC, etc; When I did the wiki, it was looking at a bunch of pages and typing in a bunch of data, so I have NOT tested out what move does what on CH - if you see something that you know is wrong, ask a moderator (preferably your SA mod) to change it.
 
WuHT said:
Ok i'm confused by what you meant. I thought after a 22K you end up in BT stance was something you wanted. If thats not the case then our conversation wasn't really one lol
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Dunno how long you've played but some SC history.

In SC2 they had these things called Backturned JF's where a character could squeeze out a BT move in the recovery of certain moves that didn't normally end in BT, great for Cervantes btw. The only one ever found for Raph (which I discovered BTW /dick waving) was out of his 22K. Was basically dating myself with an old SC2 joke big time. IIRC they took it out of three for everyone and most certainly didn't have it in IV and it's very much not likely to be in V either which is a bummer, it's the little things that make a good FG IMO.

Not really interested in Raph remaining BT since he doesn't have much except 4B+k or whatever in BT of course.
 
Whats up with the prep frame data?

I'm curious as to how they determined prepBB to be i11 and prepAB to be i14 ? I don't get why they're 1 frame slower than the from-neutral version of the same move, and it could be that all prep transitions are actually +1 faster ?

Anyone got a good methodology to test?? It was easier in SC4 because we had 66(B) which took like 18 frames to transition so we could test a bunch of stuff against it.
 
Hmm heaton generously offered to populate the wiki with data (that I assumed came from the guide).

I know that 6BB will be slower than prepBB from 3(B) on block (common knowledge by now) so yeah it someone else doesn't have a confirmation otherwise I'll probably shift the prep frames on the wiki
 
It's strange, in the wiki Raph FC K is i14, but i can't punish Raph 2K on block with it.
Pyrrha FC K is i14 and it works fine when i want to punish raph 2K with it...
Edit : Raph can't punish ZWEI 2K (-14 on block) with his FC K.
Looks like Raph FC K is i15...
 
JodorowskyVIII said:
It's strange, in the wiki Raph FC K is i14, but i can't punish Raph 2K on block with it.
Pyrrha FC K is i14 and it works fine when i want to punish raph 2K with it...
Edit : Raph can't punish ZWEI 2K (-14 on block) with his FC K.
Looks like Raph FC K is i15...
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Sometimes it takes quite a while for frame data to get fully ironed out. There are like 1000+ moves in the game afterall. You shoulda seen what we had to do to get SC2 or older frame data.
 
Yeah, except most of the frame data was published in the game guide now - things have come a long way! :-p
 
JodorowskyVIII said:
It's strange, in the wiki Raph FC K is i14, but i can't punish Raph 2K on block with it.
Pyrrha FC K is i14 and it works fine when i want to punish raph 2K with it...
Edit : Raph can't punish ZWEI 2K (-14 on block) with his FC K.
Looks like Raph FC K is i15...
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Good catch, but the real question should be: Why aint you using wrB to punish ? That move is awesome. Great frames on block, decent on hit. The big thing is that it's i13 for a mid. You can punish all sorts of lows with wrB's combination of speed and range, and remain safe if for some reason you mistime (not many characters can punish natsu's bombs). However, its only 16 damage but take what you can.

I'm trying to incorporate more FC setups in my raph game, due to the the great frames on wrA, wrB and wrK compared to his standing B/AA pokes.
 
piggy said:
Yeah, except most of the frame data was published in the game guide now - things have come a long way! :-p
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So now it's just checking for errors and such. That list didn't come straight from Namco afaik, as they still consider frame data to be trade secrets. That list was compiled by the players writing the guide. Totally possible that despite all their hard work, they fucked up here and there.

Still, it's a lot better than we've had in the past, that's for sure.

And yes always be aware of how fast wsB is in close. What you choose to do with those frames on hit is up to you, but know that it's there, and treat it as a bridge to other moves. Suddenly the meager damage won't seem like such a big deal. Not everyone can just derp derp stab from crouch, that's not a weakness exclusive to Raph.
 
KowtowRobinson said:
So now it's just checking for errors and such. That list didn't come straight from Namco afaik, as they still consider frame data to be trade secrets.
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Trade secret? Are you shitting me? April Fool's is over a week away son. How the fuck does knowing frame data put Namco's game at risk for anything? God I don't think I can keep giving this company money at this rate.
 
Real_Bojack said:
Trade secret? Are you shitting me? April Fool's is over a week away son. How the fuck does knowing frame data put Namco's game at risk for anything? God I don't think I can keep giving this company money at this rate.
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That's what they've said when asked about providing us with the frame data, similar to what AM2 does with the VF series. They just seem to think that we don't need to know. I don't get it either, Japanese are just weird man.
 
KowtowRobinson said:
That's what they've said when asked about providing us with the frame data, similar to what AM2 does with the VF series. They just seem to think that we don't need to know. I don't get it either, Japanese are just weird man.
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Prolly the real answer is that if they put out the frame data day one like they could then we would know right off the bat they balance tested the game like ass and would like to have us all buy as much of their shit box game as we can before we learn enough to whine loud enough for them to make a patch or something. Their frame data/property choices are almost 100% awful on many things.
 
8K/8B/8A TJs starting at i3 (universal)
44K TJs starting at i10
6K TJs starting at i11.
66B+K TJs starting at i13

Seems on further testing 4A+B aGIs starting at i9 (ugh so late).




6B does not count as a "stab" and won't trigger 8A+B.
 
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