This X 1000. If it didn't, Alpha would be SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS tier, lol.
Leixia Q&A/General Strategy Thread
- Thread starter Di_PL
- Start date
Age_of_Truth
[12] Conqueror
2K spam is very useful vs Mitsurugi. Just like in SCIV, his 4B will whiff very often when used against 2K, because she recovers STC. So I recommend using this as much as possible.
Personally I spam it anyway, but it is doubly spammable vs Mitsu. If you kick him in the ankles 18 times before he hits you 3 times, you win the round!!
Personally I spam it anyway, but it is doubly spammable vs Mitsu. If you kick him in the ankles 18 times before he hits you 3 times, you win the round!!
ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
Lol. If he gets kicked in the ankles 18 times before he hits you, that person should probably just forfeit the match. That being said, 2K is pretty useful as a panic button. Just have to pray he doesn't decide to 22B you to death.
Therenovator
[09] Warrior
hi i just thought i would share this new tech. i was watching the Japanese SCV tournament i notice that the Leixia player KBO who came 3rd. was using this new tech to guarantee damage what he did was he use the quake stun up close then AA straight after for 18 damage i thought he was getting that damage because his opponent was pressing buttons. but after a quake stun up close AA is always guaranteed for 18 damage so its basically an unblockable set up that guarantees 18 damage after any blocked quake stun.
i even had the AI in training block and they still got hit so the impact is form a quake stun is so great that a fast attack suck as her AA is not blockable.
i even had the AI in training block and they still got hit so the impact is form a quake stun is so great that a fast attack suck as her AA is not blockable.
Ring
Lay still now
The fact that 2B+K is +11 on block (close range) and guarantees AA has been known since the beginning. The move is easy to JG, and then it becomes very unsafe so I don't recommend to abuse this.
Therenovator
[09] Warrior
well for those that dont know ill share the tech not many leixia players use this anyway they might want to start.
lol a JG wont get you anything so its a risk worth taking whos to say you always have to AA i would welcome any attempt to JG at least i can go for more damage anyway while your nosing around in the leixia forums you might want to tell project soul to nerf her quake too like you did for the double CE it might be too good for leixia to have
i find it rather odd that you go around different forums saying how they can punish leixia but you never say this for IVY pretty weird and you say leixia is an easy match for Ivy so why all the complaints ?
Ring
Lay still now
For your information, 2B+K can be just guarded and it becomes at least -20 on block. And it's an easy JG since she can't cancel the move or delay it. I think you misunderstood my post, I wasn't talking about just guarding AA.
Ok, I will mention that to Daishi-san next time I'm having a dinner with him. I was also thinking of telling him to nerf Leixia's damage since it is clearly overpowered. What do you think?
What complaints?
I share my knowledge with everyone. I play against Leixia a lot offline and online, I also play her myself so I know a lot about her. If people have problems against her I will give them some advice . Problem? I do this for other characters as well.
I will also give you an advice, to stop acting like a troll because it won't be tolerated.
ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
Don't forget to let him know about 6KK, definitely should not be NC.
Lol, I wish I could talk to Project Soul staff to figure out which japanese Leixia player made Daishi and them "rage patch".
Windstar
[13] Hero
There are ways to force the player into a position where they have to guard mid on all of Leixia's quake step attacks. Problem is, they're all easily interruptible and can be JG as well. For the most part, they're all gimmicks and they won't work that well against players who know the match up well.
And before anyone else gets any ideas about what can and will work, let me go ahead and let you know the follow things Leixia can do that are also gimmicks and will likely be JG'ed just as easily.
-Using 6KK as a poking tool. (Don't do it).
-Forcing players to block 3B+K to frame trap them. (Won't work for much longer, once players understand the match up)
-All aB feints; 6BaB, 4A+BB, 44aB*. (All can be JG or stepped. *44aB has some nice delays that can vary the timing and force players into tricky situations, so this one can still work, provided the don't interrupt you mid animation).
-1K or 1KK. (Telegraphs a ton)
This leaves 3A+B and WS K and 44K. Of these, 44k tends to be the weakest because of its speed and the fact that it can be stepped. 3A+B can work on slower characters, but characters like Natsu, Alpha, Pyrrha, Omega, Pat, and a few others have a few options that screw most attempts.
WS K is arguably your best bet to locking opponents into a frame trap especially with usage of AA to prevent and punish stepping (as well as tapping them with a guaranteed combo). Once they start guarding and trying to wait it out, you can further punish with additional options like 44B (risky), 3A+B, 4A+B, iWS K and more. Note that some characters like Natsu can beat out all of Leixia's frame traps, so you'll need to be cautious and make sure that if you do use WS K, it hits the opponent to trap them in frames and go from there.
ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
Wha...? I don't understand how knowing the matchup prevents the reverse mixup off of blocked 3B+K. Sure they can mash an attack to interrupt you, but she can still evade which will make people account for the evasion. If they like to JG, just WS A+B. Eventually they'll realize they can't counter everything and then you're back at square one.
Just a thought... I've noticed that even the best players with the fastest reaction time have trouble defending a lot of things that should be easy on paper. (Example, on paper, 2B+K and the feints should be easy to JG but I've never had it happen. I've never even been able to pull that off in an intense match myself.) I've seen more people block Mitsu's 2KB.
My point is, everything takes conditioning. If you abuse 44K against a lower level player they'll probably block about 4 or 5 of them before realizing they should probably step or do something. Against a higher level player, maybe once or twice. But using it sparingly and in different setups, (UB cancels, fakes, etc,) you'll have those same high level players still blocking it and thinking "Dammit, I KNOW I can react to/step/JG that!"
Leixia players will, of course, be able to do these things faster because they've been seeing these same move animations for months. It's engraved into their skulls to the point where they're reacting to things on memory not on sight.
Kalas
[13] Hero
That's so true about Leixia. She has an answer to almost every situation. That's one of your main keys to win matches... even though her "answers" do shitty damage but we all should know that by now.
The problem is that if your opponent knows Leixia, you HAVE to have a superior mindgame.
Windstar
[13] Hero
I've fought players who were able to JG 3B+K on reaction, as well as her feints. Granted I don't abuse these moves enough unless my opponent is an idiot. Suffice to say, I've fought very, very good players. Players that can block Pyrrha's 4K on reaction, players that can JG Cervantes' BT B+K on reaction, players that can JG Leixia's 6AA, her feints, 3B+K and Xiba's 6B and 3B.
It won't happen overnight and not all the best players out there will JG these things anytime soon or even by EVO, but it will happen. The more important thing is, vary your moves. You've got a large move list to play with and its best not to rely on patterns and try to be a bit random.
You have to keep in mind that its not just fighting actual players or even fighting Leixia herself that will lead people to learning how to JG certain moves. Rather, it's all about timing. Since many moves share similar timings, it can be easy to predict or guess the timing of certain moves enough that it can be JG on reaction. For some players, all they need to do is to feel the timing, once they see the move once or understand the timing, it because much easier to block. Not so much predict.
Keep in mind I didn't mention 1B+K, 4K, or 6B+K.
ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
The thing is though, predicting a certain timing and doing something on pure reaction are two different things. I agree that a lot of her moves have similar timing, and I'm not doubting your opponent's skills. But I guarantee you, if you kG or UB cancel, or make some kind of movement before using said move, (hell, even throwing them), their "reactions" suddenly disappear.
Now yes, the feints will definitely be reactable to anyone if you overuse them... doesn't matter how you set them up. But 3B+K? Cervantes BT B+K? Never in a million years. It's because your opponents know you well enough to expect those moves at a certain time, so when they see the familiar setup, they "react" accordingly.
Think about it like this. Leixia 3B+K is i19... Yoshi FC 3K is slower than that (i22 or something). Yet no one can block FC 3K on pure reaction. Only on prediction. So the same is certainly true for JGing even faster moves like Lexy 3B+K.
Therenovator
[09] Warrior
Windstar, regarding the point you made about leixia not being able to frame trap natsu,leixia can frame trap any character in the game even natsu at -2. if she goes with AA 3b will tech crouch and beat it out even 1B+K will step her AA because of its short range. There is a reason 3B tech crouches its for frame trap purpose or when you predict a high so its a mind game 4 A or 4K into 3b Catches so many players out and is only beaten by some BB this can be easily countered with 33bb ,22b and 1b+k. i personally think frame traps are what leixia mains should be most focused on rarely do i see them use moves like 4A ,4K WR K then frame trap. i feel leixia mains should be forcing their opponent to use their fastest pokes at all times once they start respecting her frame traps then we can go for her more slower mix up game, feints and guard burst. regarding your point about JG every attack in the game can be just guarded so according to your theory we should just grab because we will get JG every time. SCV is not a theory fighter where you only attack when at advantage and play safe that mind set wont get you far with leixia. .i think leixia relies on being unpredictable more than most of the cast that means attacking when at heavy disadvantage there a reason she has very good evades for the soul purpose of maintaining offence. the great think and most effective way to use leixia is stoping strings mid way going into another set of strings this makes leixia the hardest character to JG even againts a player that knows leixia inside out stoping strings mid flow will give a turtle ling player fits there a reason the first hit of 6kk is - 18 because only performing the first hit is enough to have your opponent freeze up JG on the long run will be ineffective against leixia because of her ability to stop her strings half way its a shame not many use this tech an unpredictable leixia is a force to be reckoned with and this is also where her mix up are. leixia doesnt do very well in a slow paced poking game because most of her damage comes in large burst of pressure not in single hits. there is a reason when your playing a faced paced game and winning on a life lead, once you start to turtle it just allows your opponent a way back in.i personally think Leixia players should be working on ways to keep there offence going. she has an answer for most situation so its just about picking the right one but it can also be used against her if you become too predictable here is an example of a good way of keeping the offence going after 66k on hit you go for 4A that is -2 on block into 3b or 1B+K if you expect a vertical thats just an example there are many more set ups you can use. and if they turtle you can even go for another frame trap like i15 4K or even a feint. you would be surprised how hard it can be to react to certain things you would normally react to in training mode in the middle of a match. one last point why doesnt any Leixia player ever use the charged A+B that move breaks in 8. anyone noticed that 1b and A+B can be used for mix up purposes both have the same start up but can lead to two different things A+B can be used to guarantee her CE against players looking for 1B WR A+B mix up.
SpaghettiViking
Blink Master
@Therenovator:
You have a good point about the options Leixia uses to mix people up and beat them out, but it's also important to understand that every one of these mixups and evasions involves taking a risk and making a read. How many times in a row can you realistically expect to guess correctly for a litle extra damage before you get countered for 40-100 damage? 4K, 1B+K nets less than 30 damage in exchange for a risk where you can be thrown or counter hit for far more damage than you would deal on hit.
I'm not saying to never use 1B+K - it's an important tool to be sure, but bear in mind that in order to use these evasions and frame traps effectively, you'll need the time and patience to let your opponent establish read-able responses in the first place. Just because Leixia *can* use a certain option doesn't mean it will work. Sometimes it's better to save a specific trap or mixup for a critical moment when it can actually win the round, as opposed to showing your hand righ off the bat.
I like that idea for 1B into WR A+B, but beware of people who won't take the defensive route of attempting a block. Some players will just mash out a quick AA or BB to shut the whole mixup down. That being said, using [A+B] to fool them out of blocking the low only works if they've already established that they will block WR A+B, and if that's the case, you may just be better off using FC3B as it does slightly less guard damage than [A+B] but is much safer on block.
On a side note, you may want to add some vertical spaces to break up your post - it's rather straining to read. Proofreading might be a good idea, as well. Not hating on your post - just a friendly suggestion.
You have a good point about the options Leixia uses to mix people up and beat them out, but it's also important to understand that every one of these mixups and evasions involves taking a risk and making a read. How many times in a row can you realistically expect to guess correctly for a litle extra damage before you get countered for 40-100 damage? 4K, 1B+K nets less than 30 damage in exchange for a risk where you can be thrown or counter hit for far more damage than you would deal on hit.
I'm not saying to never use 1B+K - it's an important tool to be sure, but bear in mind that in order to use these evasions and frame traps effectively, you'll need the time and patience to let your opponent establish read-able responses in the first place. Just because Leixia *can* use a certain option doesn't mean it will work. Sometimes it's better to save a specific trap or mixup for a critical moment when it can actually win the round, as opposed to showing your hand righ off the bat.
I like that idea for 1B into WR A+B, but beware of people who won't take the defensive route of attempting a block. Some players will just mash out a quick AA or BB to shut the whole mixup down. That being said, using [A+B] to fool them out of blocking the low only works if they've already established that they will block WR A+B, and if that's the case, you may just be better off using FC3B as it does slightly less guard damage than [A+B] but is much safer on block.
On a side note, you may want to add some vertical spaces to break up your post - it's rather straining to read. Proofreading might be a good idea, as well. Not hating on your post - just a friendly suggestion.
Kalas
[13] Hero
3B ~ 6A+B works on:
ZWEI, Ezio, Raphael, Tira, Ivy, Hilde, Astaroth, Voldo, Algol and Alpha (so basically all fatties + Tira and Hilde)
It works against almost the whole cast at tiprange.
ZWEI, Ezio, Raphael, Tira, Ivy, Hilde, Astaroth, Voldo, Algol and Alpha (so basically all fatties + Tira and Hilde)
It works against almost the whole cast at tiprange.
SpaghettiViking
Blink Master
Good stuff, Kalas. I'll have to play around with that and decide who I actually want the pushback against.
This gives me an idea...
After the second wall hit in a wall combo, what moves actually provide the best setups for a followup? Sure, you can use 4A+B again for damage, but after a combo that long, the scaling will be high enough that there won't necessarily be enough of a difference in damage between moves, and you may just end up pushing the opponent so far away that they get free breathing room to reset and go for a comeback.
If your goal is to set up a mixup or tech trap after the wall combo, what moves keep them relatively close and recover fairly quickly?
What about setting up an immediate guard break for a second juicy wall combo?
This gives me an idea...
After the second wall hit in a wall combo, what moves actually provide the best setups for a followup? Sure, you can use 4A+B again for damage, but after a combo that long, the scaling will be high enough that there won't necessarily be enough of a difference in damage between moves, and you may just end up pushing the opponent so far away that they get free breathing room to reset and go for a comeback.
If your goal is to set up a mixup or tech trap after the wall combo, what moves keep them relatively close and recover fairly quickly?
What about setting up an immediate guard break for a second juicy wall combo?
ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
^2B+K for tech trap after splatting with 4A+B.
Eclair
[10] Knight
Changing my guard burst combo to 44[A] AABE but i'm not getting the timing right. Am i supposed to be buffering 44[A]?
ZeroEffect317
[13] Hero
This was mentioned in the Guard Burst thread, but only specific moves give you enough time to do the full 44[A]. You have to guard burst with 44K, WS K, or 1B+K. Also the last hit of 4BB works too. You should be able to start buffering it on reaction to the green screen.