Raph confirmed as SCV Nightmare :D

[Forgon]

Z.W.E.I. is neither confirmed nor denied to be dead. For all we know E.I.N. has a healing factor that could immediately seal Z.W.E.I.'s impalement wound shut, then catch him as he fell and float down to the bottom of the cliff. Then they work their way back up about 6 hours after the ending.

All things considered, it would be odd to kill off a character/style that is not a unique boss after appearing in one game unless the style is truly considered a broken abomination that cannot be fixed. If we are to ruin the suspense of the story and go with logic and rationale then we come to an obvious conclusion: the developers want us to believe he is dead in order to bring up a plot twist that shocks us because he is actually alive. Z.W.E.I. will return and he will appear in some form or another (anyone notice that people connected to Amy fall down pits?) so the real question is how is he going to survive? Is there a particular reason (ie E.I.N., a cliff edge, shear force of will). This is Soul Calibur so anything cliche works.

So is Zwei the future Nightmare? Since Soul Edge loves dead guys.

Doubtful. I expect either a new host from a character or a recycled version of the Zasalamel method to resurrect Nightmare in the armor.

That is a very good theory, backed up with plenty of facts and lot of good sense. I'm really impressed with your post. m(_ _)m

If all that may be true, then Soul Edge is truly devious. But let's not forget that Soul Calibur did manipulate poor Patrokolos to an extent. The only question I have in mind is that will it ever learn from its' hosts in the same way like its' polar opposite? If so, that would make it equally dangerous, am I right?

Thank you, I blush at the compliment. However, I am perplexed by your question; I find it ambiguous. Assuming I am interpreting it correctly: Yes, I theorize Soul Calibur is a self sufficient entity in contrast to Soul Edge due to the unique nature of its creation. I believe it is innately knowledgeable due to having an objective focused soley on destroying Soul Edge so it is crafty and innovative in thought and action in pursuit of trying to destroy the Evil Sword.

Soul Edge is the original weapon and a weapon that gained sentience through the blood and souls of many wielders and victims, a trait that has been unique to it since ancient times. Since it gains a soul and "life" in this manner, it only makes sense that the limitations and capabilities of this sword expand with the knowledge and actions of its (canon) wielder and/or host. Since Soul Calibur is an independent creation from a fragment of the sword through rituals and magic, it was created with a purified spirit of Soul Edge that automatically was "programmed" with a goal and is able to reason and deduce on its own, so the environment and origins of its creation force it to act more independent then the Evil Sword.


This is, of course, only speculation.

--Forgon

 

[ShaolinTiger86]

All things considered, it would be odd to kill off a character/style that is not a unique boss after appearing in one game unless the style is truly considered a broken abomination that cannot be fixed. If we are to ruin the suspense of the story and go with logic and rationale then we come to an obvious conclusion: the developers want us to believe he is dead in order to bring up a plot twist that shocks us because he is actually alive. Z.W.E.I. will return and he will appear in some form or another (anyone notice that people connected to Amy fall down pits?) so the real question is how is he going to survive? Is there a particular reason (ie E.I.N., a cliff edge, shear force of will). This is Soul Calibur so anything cliche works.



Doubtful. I expect either a new host from a character or a recycled version of the Zasalamel method to resurrect Nightmare in the armor.




Thank you, I blush at the compliment. However, I am perplexed by your question; I find it ambiguous. Assuming I am interpreting it correctly: Yes, I theorize Soul Calibur is a self sufficient entity in contrast to Soul Edge due to the unique nature of its creation. I believe it is innately knowledgeable due to having an objective focused soley on destroying Soul Edge so it is crafty and innovative in thought and action in pursuit of trying to destroy the Evil Sword.

Soul Edge is the original weapon and a weapon that gained sentience through the blood and souls of many wielders and victims, a trait that has been unique to it since ancient times. Since it gains a soul and "life" in this manner, it only makes sense that the limitations and capabilities of this sword expand with the knowledge and actions of its (canon) wielder and/or host. Since Soul Calibur is an independent creation from a fragment of the sword through rituals and magic, it was created with a purified spirit of Soul Edge that automatically was "programmed" with a goal and is able to reason and deduce on its own, so the environment and origins of its creation force it to act more independent then the Evil Sword.


This is, of course, only speculation.

--Forgon

This.

 

[Tuzark_merlire]

Epic post

A well-thought up post, I have to agree, and a nice way to see the evolution of Soul Edge. Good work.

...and, in some regards, I think you're not too far off the mark.

This just leads to more questions. Like where did the orb come from? Why is it stealing her memories? If this is part of someone's plan what use are her memories to them?

Viola wasn't created to give answer, she was created to generate them. :P

When defeating ZWEI nightmare holds up his weapon and proudly exclaims "Behold Soul Edge, a weapon without equal!" I think this is Raphael speaking, it could also just be inferno's pride making him speak in the third person.

IMO, definitively Dumas talking. The few times Inferno gets to talk, it always refers to itself in fist person, even when talking to itself. "It" never refers to the sword or itself by name, at all.

 

[RWB]

1) Soul Edge will continue being the Zweihander because Inferno is using its own memories when possessing a host and therefore I am assuming Inferno simply prefers and/or is most talented with a zweihander so that will be his weapon for now on.

Inferno preferring a Zweihänder has simple reasons:

1. It's the "true" form of the sword(there was a picture of the sword pre-flesh in the artbook, and this can also be seen in Nauplius)

2. It's favorite host that we know of (Siegfried) wielded it. It's "lust" for Sieg was so notable that Tira got jealous. >_>



You know what would be the worst possible situation right now, knowing the "Soul Edge takes in the intelligence of the wielder"?

Current Zasalamel becoming the host. Knowledge spanning aeons(and quite a bit more succinct knowledge than what the sword usually gets), exceptional battle skills and even more manipulative skills than it already has from Raphael.

 

[taffertier]

and even more manipulative skills than it already has from Raphael.

Zas may have the manipulation from behind the scenes, but Raph's got the charisma.

 

[Forgon]

Zas may have the manipulation from behind the scenes, but Raph's got the charisma.

And the knowledge of politics. Zasalamel has knowledge of the arcane and probably more due to his long lifespans giving him time to learn many things from menial crafts and just simple wisdom. I think Raphael, Ivy, and Zasalamel would be the three that would make Soul Edge ridiculously powerful.

--Forgon

 

[taffertier]

And the knowledge of politics. Zasalamel has knowledge of the arcane and probably more due to his long lifespans giving him time to learn many things from menial crafts and just simple wisdom. I think Raphael, Ivy, and Zasalamel would be the three that would make Soul Edge ridiculously powerful.

--Forgon

I dont even want to think about what would happen when all that power gets amplified by turning into Night Terror. Night Terror was (And probably is) unstoppable simply with Nightmare's old memories.

 

[WindupSkeleton]

"Soul Edge. Grant your master his wish."

Reminds me of "Now Soul Calibur, create a new world for Amy and me!" Very Raphaelish.

And consider also Nightmare's stage: Denever Castle. Denever being Hungarian for 'bat', bat's being Raph's thing.

All in all, Le Bello thinks there's a lot of evidence to support the theory that Raph is Nightmare, but it still remains a theory.

Besides, Dampierre is the REAL Nightmare.

 

[ShaolinTiger86]

My theories and logic all point to Raphael being the new Nightmare. He and Graf look alike or probably are the same person with a different alias.

 

[Heaton]

Zasalamel has held Soul Edge during one of his lives.

During one of his countless lifetimes, he took possession of Soul Edge in hopes of cutting the bonds between his life and this world, but he ended up as a servant of the sword. He was together with the sword until his body collapsed andt he last of his life faded. Still, he returned once again to the land of the living.

Sounds more like an experiment in incompetence than anything terrible and catastrophic.

 

[ShaolinTiger86]

Sounds more like an experiment in incompetence than anything terrible and catastrophic.

In other words...FAIL!

 

[darkwings13]

Reminds me of "Now Soul Calibur, create a new world for Amy and me!" Very Raphaelish.

And consider also Nightmare's stage: Denever Castle. Denever being Hungarian for 'bat', bat's being Raph's thing.

All in all, Le Bello thinks there's a lot of evidence to support the theory that Raph is Nightmare, but it still remains a theory.

Besides, Dampierre is the REAL Nightmare.

(>;^_^) But Le Bello, I think it's already proven that Raph is Nighty. Someone translated the info from the japanese artbook that said so. Here you go.

Raphael
+ Very little I can add about him. The charts have him only linked to Amy and a few real-life figures (he was a supporter of Henry IV, for example).
+ About Nightmare's host: Soul Edge controls the host by having imprinted his own memories into him. He has forged a new personality and past out of the selected memories of the sword, which appears to account for him using Nightmare/Siegfried's old style. Not sure if it means it was a blank state beforehand, but I tend to agree with that idea.
+ The text also implies that what Dumas really really desires is to devote his soul entirely to the sword regardless of his well-being, and mentions he overwhelms his body beyond its own limits while using the sword's power.

 

[Tuzark_merlire]

Ehm...I didn't say/meant to say they were confirmed the same with that post (I'd have made a much bigger deal out of it if that were the case). While the artbook does go to some lengths about hinting something's up, there's no outright confirmation on the matter. I put those interesting tips about Dumas/Soul Edge's host together with Raphael just because there's nothing significant about him (as I said, he's not linked to anyone besides Amy in the charts) and given how much both are connected, I decided to bulk it up a lil.

Sorry about the confusion :P

 

[WindupSkeleton]

(>;^_^) But Le Bello, I think it's already proven that Raph is Nighty. Someone translated the info from the japanese artbook that said so. Here you go.

Ehm...I didn't say/meant to say they were confirmed the same with that post (I'd have made a much bigger deal out of it if that were the case). While the artbook does go to some lengths about hinting something's up, there's no outright confirmation on the matter. I put those interesting tips about Dumas/Soul Edge's host together with Raphael just because there's nothing significant about him (as I said, he's not linked to anyone besides Amy in the charts) and given how much both are connected, I decided to bulk it up a lil.

Sorry about the confusion :P

Oft times, Le Bello says everything through the medium of other people =|;}D

 

[taffertier]

If it does turn out that Raph is Nightmare i wonder what all this mystery and implications are for. Hopefully they expand upon it in the next game, if it happens.

 

[LizardmenArise]

I have a feeling that the next game will involve time travel for a few reasons:
1. Raphael can't be Nightmare in SCVI, because that would mean eliminating the last rapier-style character in the game.
2. Pyrrha is still malfested and filled with that evil aura, along with Sophitia supposedly sacrificing herself to save her children from Tira. Patroklos seems like the kind of guy who won't stop until things are perfect- so if the opportunity would present itself, he would travel back in time to fix things.
3. With Soul Calibur possibly being destroyed, there would be no hope for humanity as it would succumb to the evils of Soul Edge.
4. The majority of the newcomers weren't received well by the fanbase (i.e. us), so why not wipe the slate clean? And on the flip-side, a lot of people were also upset about fan favorites not returning from previous games. Missing are Talim, Taki, Yung-seong, Amy (maybe), and Zasalamel, among others.
5. A large amount of Soul Calibur fans miss the good old days of SB to SCII, so with a reboot out of the question, time travel would seem like a good idea.

Now how time travel would be possible is a mystery, and who would be able to grant that power to Patroklos is an even greater one (Inferno, Algol, Le Bello?), but I'd like to see another Soul Calibur II with the improved features from the series and an altered timeline to boot.

 

[Vulcan422]

Time travel would just overcomplicate things. This is Soul Calibur, not BlazBlue.

 

[taffertier]

Time travel would just overcomplicate things. This is Soul Calibur, not BlazBlue.

Doesnt Patroklos go back in time already by no discernible means? He killed Pyrrha and was like LOLNEVERMIND and had Edge Master send him back in time with the powers of plot device chaos.

Or something along those lines. I dont think he himself went back, but he sent his memories of the event to Patroklos in the past to stop himself.

But i agree, that whole scene was pretty dumb. It made things confusing and unnecessary, if possible i'd like to avoid time travel unless it is really well done. It just opens up the possibilities for too much bullshit.

 

[Forgon]

Snip

In order:

1) Who said he needed to be Nightmare in SCVI? You do realize that Nightmare can just as easily have a new host in the next game correct? Nightmare can even survive as just Soul Edge posessing armor (albeit an unstable host) so this point is invalid.

2) Considering the fact that Patroklos accepts Pyyrha for who she is at the end of their story, I find that highly unlikely. He accepts that Pyyrha is a malfested, he has no reason to fix something that no longer bothers him.

3) By this logic, we should use a time travel plot every game since Soul Edge or Soul Calibur have been canonically 'destroyed' each game. Don't get your hopes up on this point, the swords are most likely in another soul embrace if anything. The swords are alive.

4) This screams to me bias and collectively trying to use your above points as an excuse to just have the characters you miss (which don't even necesarilly need be included since they can just go back and time and still only introduce new characters from 17 years earlier). I have been overjoyed with the timeshift and new characters, a majority of the remaining classics survived as characters or their styles were kept.

5) Again, just bias to nostalgia. The "good ol' days" still exist in the old games themselves which can be played still if you own them. However, a franchise and a series needs to keep evolving forward or else it stagnates and reaches the dredges of hilarity (ie Tekken and its roster). We already have a lot of characters that are going to be timeless and endless (as there should be) but the game itself doesn't need to take a step backward for those who live in the past.

I disapprove of any time travel plot added to the story. We already have an excuse with Astral Chaos existing outside of time and space which was slipped in for a minor fix in Patroklos's story but it need not be the go-to plot device for every fan to go drown in their nostalgia and keep the series recycled in its primeval days.

--Forgon

 

[jtdam09]

5) Again, just bias to nostalgia. The "good ol' days" still exist in the old games themselves which can be played still if you own them. However, a franchise and a series needs to keep evolving forward or else it stagnates and reaches the dredges of hilarity (ie Tekken and its roster). We already have a lot of characters that are going to be timeless and endless (as there should be) but the game itself doesn't need to take a step backward for those who live in the past.

I disapprove of any time travel plot added to the story. We already have an excuse with Astral Chaos existing outside of time and space which was slipped in for a minor fix in Patroklos's story but it need not be the go-to plot device for every fan to go drown in their nostalgia and keep the series recycled in its primeval days.

--Forgon

That's pretty much why people like Mortal Kombat 9 so much. Just the whole thing was "nostralgic", and used some sad excuse of "telepath" to bring viewers back to the past time.

Gameplay may have been good, but let's be real here. Alongside blood and gore, would people really like the game if the story wasn't revolved around MK1-MK3 and its characters, and instead went the Soul Calibur V approach?

It's bad enough a majority of MK fans didn't like the series after MK: Trilogy. MK4 onwards does have some characters who could actually be revamped pretty well (Li Mei, Bo Rai Cho, Tanya, Kai, Reiko, Hotaru), so-sos (Frost, Nitara, Mavado, Edenian brothers, Sireenah, etc.), and then there are those that don't need to come back (Hsu Hao, Mokap, Blaze, Kobra, Jarek). People liked Kenshi the most because of his design, so it was pretty obvious he was going to return in MK9 in some form.

Do I think SCV needs to do this? Absolutely not, especially since they have already taken the risk and moved forward on SCV. What's the use of going back?

Plus SCIV's story was so out of place. It was proof enough that they needed to go with a clean slate by making a timeskip and introducing a slew of new characters (or a few on the roster)