Should Button Binding with Hilde be banned?

Shen Yuan said:
Kingace: Im not arguing that it is easy. I am arguing that using a controller MODIFIES the thought processes when playing Hilde in high level. and CONTROLLERS should NOT dictate what a player has to think about.

A pad player should not be made to think less than a stick palyer. That is a sin.

It should make execution easier. Not thinkign easier
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The stick user gains precise execution for using a stick. A pad user gains weaker execution, but an easier learning skill with his controller. Obviously with binding hilde players gain an advantage from stick users because they have more control with the character.

So then...
If your argument isn't that hilde is broke, but she is more in your control with a pad than a stick.

You should take in upon yourself as a hilde player to use a pad. Why because she is strongest with this mechanic. Plus stick users use sticks for various reasons, the most important one execution. If a pad gives you perfect execution with this character, then one advantage of using a stick is gone, and it seems to be the most important advantage.

Then you should use that which will give you the most control, precision, execution with your character.

On your response to the thinking aspect. The apprentice can break both types of throws with A+B, doesn't require much thinking, and it's easier than hilde breaking throws. But like I said if you use a stick just for the love of sticks, you shouldn't complain for losing advantage to pad users, pads are made to make execution and thinking easier.

Even without terms of hilde, us pad users have to think less than you stick users, because that is within the backwards design of a stick.
 
"The stick user gains precise execution for using a stick. A pad user gains weaker execution, but an easier learning skill with his controller. Obviously with binding hilde players gain an advantage from stick users because they have more control with the character."
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First off, im arguing that this is highly opinionated. My best friend feels that using a pad is better for his execution. He cannot do many inputs on a stick well and he has been using a stick for years. That imo is an overgeneralisation. But the issue here is that it doesnt really matter whether a stick or pad is used. what matters is that the player concerned can pull off stuff ingame with maximum efficiencey and accuracy, regardless of the controller that is used.

I am not talking about 'control'. I am saying that the Hilde that is a result from button binding does not need to learn up the necessary skills for playing Hilde on a stick due to TEG. I am certain that Hilde players who play on pad, and are pampered by the fact that they can TEG whenever they want, will experience difficulties on a stick, and will be forced to think ahead more than they did on pad... They have to guess what the opponent is going to do.. then charge appropriately.. this is different from a pad where Hildes can literally almost NEVER STOP charging. This means that the way a Hilde palyer has to think and perform inputs is going to experience a huge overhaul.

"You should take in upon yourself as a hilde player to use a pad. Why because she is strongest with this mechanic. Plus stick users use sticks for various reasons, the most important one execution. If a pad gives you perfect execution with this character, then one advantage of using a stick is gone, and it seems to be the most important advantage. "
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You have a point that I should take up using Hilde on a pad... but your reasons are inaccurate/flawed imo. It is not teh execution that is changed... If i switch from stick to pad... I really dont have to bother about my ability to read way ahead as much.. I have to even change my charge timings quite a bit... since i can charge ALOT more... without the relatively bigger fear of command throws i had when using stick.

Then you should use that which will give you the most control, precision, execution with your character.
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You are right. but I have to relearn aspects of Hilde to be more effective with her again. ITs beyond execution already. ITs a change in thinking and strategy

On your response to the thinking aspect. The apprentice can break both types of throws with A+B, doesn't require much thinking, and it's easier than hilde breaking throws.
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Yeah it doesnt require much thinking... but the thing is unlike ihlde, you can do that on both pad and stick... Hilde must change the way she deals with throws on a pad and a stick... that is mroe thinking ...

"pad aren't made to make execution and thinking easier."

The idea of execution made easier thru the use of pads is dubious.. tis relative IMO, as abovementioned.

But in this case, thinking is made easier... hilde players dont have to prepare strategies to deal with command throws on a pad, unlike stick users.... Plus you said Pads are not made to make thinking easier... unfortunately it does so in this case.

'Even without terms of hilde, us pad users have to think less than you stick users, because that is within the backwards design of a stick.'

I dont understand. If a good palyer used pad or stick for other characters, the thinking behind his or her game will be the same.. the variable here is the execution... not the thinking.

thinking/strategy does not equate to execution.
 
That was a mistake You quoted.

I meant to say "Pads are meant to make execution and thinking easier."

Because a stick has a higher learning curve obviously your brain has to do more processing to make these executions work. Thus I said pad players think less than stick users, because the brain processing is different. In the long run, I expect the brain development is more to the stick users advantage.
 
I am not talking about brain development... or the mental strain when execution on pad/stick is concerned..

It also does not matter which is easier to whom in my argument

the mental aspect i was refering to in my argument is the strategic aspect. It means the plans you have to make to achieve victory. not the buttons you got to key in.

I am arguiing that these plans can change when you use a pad or a stick... which is why I'm pushing for a ban. The only things that should change when a pad/stick is concerned is the inputs... not the planning/strategising.
 
A hilde player that uses a stick could just bind the buttons below B and K to another A and B and hold charges with those buttons. they'd be able to break throws just like PAD users can.

so the pad Vs stick argument seems kind of irrelevant to me.

i would say that, if binding in this way is allowed for hilde players, a player that does not take advantage of it on stick is playing inefficiently.
 
Shen Yuan said:
I am not talking about brain development... or the mental strain when execution on pad/stick is concerned..

It also does not matter which is easier to whom in my argument

the mental aspect i was refering to in my argument is the strategic aspect. It means the plans you have to make to achieve victory. not the buttons you got to key in.

I am arguiing that these plans can change when you use a pad or a stick... which is why I'm pushing for a ban. The only things that should change when a pad/stick is concerned is the inputs... not the planning/strategising.
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To which I will reply...if the stick is hampering your ability to fully utilize Hilde's ability, switch to a pad. Use that which is most effective to gain results.

To which you will reply, you'll be gaining massive advantage.
And then I will say, no you won't. Then we'll have to agree to disagree, because at this time it's a matter of opinion. Because I can assure you Hilde players even at high level play will still eat throws, to some degree.
 
KingAce said:
To which I will reply...if the stick is hampering your ability to fully utilize Hilde's ability, switch to a pad. Use that which is most effective to gain results.

To which you will reply, you'll be gaining massive advantage.
And then I will say, no you won't. Then we'll have to agree to disagree, because at this time it's a matter of opinion. Because I can assure you Hilde players even at high level play will still eat throws, to some degree.
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So judging by your argument.
Should there be an SC4:AE. When and if there is an international tournament where there are conflicting interests in terms of rules. (Because right now, different countries have different rulesets. And I agree with this) Without discussion, Button Binding with Hilde is banned. Because it is no longer a choice, as AE players do not have access to playing with it, and using button binding (Be it pad and stick) wields a great advantage. As you have agreed to yourself?

If that is the case, then fine by us I think.

Orionics: You have 6 fingers I presume?
 
Judging by your arguement, since you are able to think so far ahead... if you switch to pad you will NEVER be thrown again! Your foresight will dominate the scene and it will become useless to even try and throw you.

In short, switch to pad or stay with stick... your choice. I am mainly a stick player who switched full time to pad JUST so I could play Hilde in a more comfortable way. Tough shit. I had to learn stick way back when to play Guilty Gear at a higher level because they are way more precise in directional inputs.
 
ShenOu said:
Orionics: You have 6 fingers I presume?
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One of them's not a finger. ;)... some people don't like to play with me ;(

i see your point, though. i thought of another configuration that would work better but you would complete change the way you would currently play stick.

123---BKB'
456---AGA'

A' and B' would be held pinky and thumb. you'd use your other 3 fingers on ABKG.

it's alot to go though just to play hilde on stick and could negatively effect how you play other chars.
 
No, bindings should not be banned... Personally with the Pad if you do not bind, she be worthless... She is already a low used player and take a total different style of play and not too powerful. To band the binds, you might as well take her out of the game, imo... She is a good player and defently underrated but not because of the bindings. Also I don't see differences on binding from her to say a throw bind or some of the dual button binds that make moves like Yoshis any different, band one you got to band them all...

ZyX23
 
ShenYuan said:
I am arguiing that these plans can change when you use a pad or a stick... which is why I'm pushing for a ban. The only things that should change when a pad/stick is concerned is the inputs... not the planning/strategising.
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Not that this means anything, what I'm gonna say...

That's an ideal, sir. given that you probably bought a stick, because sticks don't come with a PS3 standard, it was your choice to use a stick.

so you have to think more and work harder using a stick... that's entirely your choice.

all I'm saying is that you shouldn't hate on pad users for just doing what came standard.

and then as others have stated you can button bind on a stick and come out just fine.

but... I'm probably just repeating a sentiment in this topic that I forgot to read...
 
It didn't come standard.
You are given FOUR input buttons. Then you are allowed binds on shoulders.

Hilde is the only character where binding a singular button to a shoulder gives her a distinct advantage over anyone else.

It's not the same as assigning a K to do A+K "easier". It's using buttons to do things you wouldn't normally be able to do otherwise. Even if you clawstyle your controller you wouldn't be able to do that - and that's what it's like on a stick.

I know you're basically saying stop being butthurt....but you don't seem to get it

especially when this series derived from arcade play.

Fucking kids and their home consoles.
 
Now that's not nice. You should be more civil...

and sticks generally have 6 or 8 buttons, I'd think. and since you only need four, there are extra buttons you can bind to and be just like pad players. Excuse me if I'm missing something or seem ignorant about the subject, but I don't see the big deal.

I just think it's part of the character, anyway.. without button binding, as said, Hilde really has to work. (and Yoshi a:B+K is improbable, if not impossible.)

if it was too broken, I'm sure it'd get patched... eventually...
 
I'm hoping they patch it so that buttons binds for each button are tied to the same "internal button". So pressing duplicate bind will just make it think the same button is still being pressed. I don't think that's too egregious a change on your part yes? It solves all our problems. Binds of all kinds can stay in and what seems to me like an obvious disadvantage designed into the character is preserved and we can all hug and stuff.
 
you should put some sort of sarcasm indicator ._.

anyway, yeah, it wouldn't be hard at all to patch.

... though, given that the programmers at NB are all a bunch of 5-year-old wet diapers, it'll take ten years to fix. XD
 
ShenYu said:
I'm hoping they patch it so that buttons binds for each button are tied to the same "internal button". So pressing duplicate bind will just make it think the same button is still being pressed. I don't think that's too egregious a change on your part yes? It solves all our problems. Binds of all kinds can stay in and what seems to me like an obvious disadvantage designed into the character is preserved and we can all hug and stuff.
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As long as they make it so certain stick advantages pass over to pad, I'm all for that.
 
Ceirnian said:
As long as they make it so certain stick advantages pass over to pad, I'm all for that.
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Such as? She's not exactly a character that requires the dexterity that a stick gives you. To me it seems like pad players would probably still have a slight advantage in that situation since they'd still have two buttons to be able to slide over. But at the very least it'd make players conscious that they can't just ignore that they're charging when throw breaking or dumping a charge to do a different move.
 
I am a stick player, and to me it seems a HELL of a lot easier to charge with Hilde on a stick than on pad. Now I don't move my fingers away from their designated buttons (thumb = bound to G | index = bound to A | Middle = Bound to B | Ring = Bound to K). When I have to play with a pad, I play standard thumb on d-pad and another tumb on the 4 buttons. I'd never use confAgs, but that's of course just me. Summary (or my first sentence again), as a stick player, I feel it's easier that way on a stick. Seeing as I am not affected by this, yes please ban it! :D
 
Sorry to dig up a slightly old thread here, but I saw it on the similar threads list of another, and wanted to ask something here.

Has anyone seen the computer player perform any moves that are only possible with button binding with Hilde? Cause if so, I'd say that would be very intentionally programmed in to be able to do that. Though its probably really, really hard to tell if this is actually the case.
 
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