Evidently smarter than you...a buff is more damage for your attacks...not more speed for your characters Ivy's attack damage is sub-par as compared to other games...she's lost a lot of her technical gameplay..experienced players knows her throws are almost all she has and knows how to duck them and break out of a majority of them. Her attack throws are slow and widely and easy to block..her attacks don't track nearly as well as sig and NM VERTICALS. Yes...her CE does more damage than a lot of peoples but her meter is best spent on her BEs if you've mastered CS which is only 7 weaker than her CE. Zoning is pointless against Sig, NM, Mitsurugi, Astaroth, and "kilik". Ivy is known for her range, throws, and godly combos (which no longer exist in this game). If you're familiar with SC II III and IV Ivy then you should be ashamed to call yourself an Ivy player. I wish you the best of luck hitting with Ivy's longest range attacks in this game...her "whip state attacks" are entirely too easy to block in this game because she has sort of a start up animation to almost every move. Ivy faster than Siegfried? Don't make me laugh...you've never played against a good sig or NM player that mastered their JF attacks. I've played against enough of them to have a good fight and win 85% of the time but let me tell you...Ivy is no longer the Ivy the SC world knows and fears. She's ridiculously easy to play against now no matter who you use against her. I should know...I killed her in 5 hits with NM and she hit me at least 30 times and my health wasn't even in the yellow. Yes her throws are strong...but if you know how to fight against Ivy you know when they're coming and she's too slow to do anything about it. I love Ivy more than any of you which is why I realize how bad her mechanics are in this game...the "improvements" pale to the disappointments.
Hihi, I was reading the recent posts re: this debate at work earlier, and wanted to reply back. I regularly fight against a Siegfried and Nightmare main online, and while you do raise some valid points regarding their range and their attack power, it doesn't make them impossible match-ups at all. In fact, I dare say that Ivy generally has an advantage over Siegfried and, depending on your opponent's playstyle, an even match to very slight disadvantage with NM.
I do understand your frustration with Siegfried and Nightmare and the other characters you've mentioned. If played by incredibly patient players, both Siegfried and Nightmare will attempt to keep you away for the majority of the match as they well know, pointed out by Synraii and Paranormal_Oreo, that Ivy's close-range to mid-range game will generally be faster and safer than anything either utilizes. Once up close, Siegfried's stances are either highly punishable on block or easily GI'ed or JG'ed. As for Nightmare, there are wide gaps between his strings [AA/BB come to mind] and he suffers severely from a whiffed attack [one of my favorite punishes is a JG'ed Nightmare 3AA with 1B+K followed by a bK. "You FILTH!" :)]. Don't forget also that 3B on normal hit will connect with 6B8 quite frequently with Nightmare. 3 of those in one round are no bueno for Nightmares.
Ivy, on the other hand, is for the most part, safe [mostly -6 to -10 with sword attacks, none of which either can counter consistently], has incredible punishers [6B8, 4B, 1B BE], and possesses good grab range that can capitalize on these openings. If need be, she can easily regain the advantage and frame trap for days with 4B, 3K, 3A, 6AK, 4A+B, to name a few.
Also, this may have been mentioned in previous threads, but Ivy has a pretty solid guard crush game that supplements her punishment game considering the safety and speed of her pokes and sword attacks. 44B, 22A, and 6B+K [sword version] are -2 on block and inflict great guard damage. B+K is terrific for this, as well as serving as a great spacing tool and a CS setup for overeager opponents, and, as a throwback to Sora's previous post about the usefulness of this move, 44B+K's 2nd unblockable hit is guaranteed once the first hit crushes, which leaves you a 105 damage Ivy Lick combo with no meter involved. Let's not also forget the kick to the nyuts 3[K] which leaves you with +3 on block and is also a great CS buffer.
Yes, this iteration of Ivy is radically different from what I've seen in SC4, but quite honestly, I actually prefer this Ivy over previous incarnations. She is not meant to have insane normal hit damage nor ludicrously long combos. Rather, she has her speed, frame trapping, and versatility throughout all ranges that more than make up for that deficiency. Played correctly, Ivy has the means to negate an opponent's offense and score great damage through her CHs, all of which she can pull out from normal position without the need for stance. Add in consistent JG'ing, and suddenly, that Ivy looks a lot more frightening. :)
