Natsu match-up and anti-character general discussion thread

Well I'm in agreement with most of the Natsus here. Seig/NM are truly hard fights. Trying to get in range is half of the problem, and both characters have insanely strong okezeme to keep you on the ground. It's quite often that once I'm grounded I lose half+ my health because of the insane plethora of knockdowns and lows both characters have and it's very hard to try read which attack is coming next if the opponent doesn't fall into a rhythm.

Trying to interrupt Maxi at close range can be hard also. PO HOV is not safe vs any of these characters, infact any time I've tried hov I'm knocked out with a random vertical, so I have to fish for CH combos using 6A+B4 or 22_88K. I seen it happen to Hawkeye in the finals vs NM a lot also when using PO HOV.

I've started using 8_9K,A vs them a lot when they are at range and they use mids or lows, 66b or 66k to get in range.

I've not had much trouble vs aPat aside from in Legendary souls edge master (that fight is just wrong *grumble*), but I've not met a truly amazing one yet.

Overall NM/Seig/Maxi are the fights I cannot stand and have difficulty dealing with. All other fights are dependant upon the player more than the character, but these 3 can be troublesome as characters themselves (within reason of course.)
 
HOV is extremely deceptive. You are not as high as you appear to be. Any vertical should knock you out of it.
 
FleshMasher said:
That's nice.
We already have a punishment discussion thread, but i was thinking about turning it into an anti-everything thread with interrupts, just guardables, stance countermeasures and so on.
Basically to dissect every characters complete command list.
That could be a bit much though.

Anyway could you separate the guaranteed punishments from interrupts, evasion and so on?
That would be tidier and then i could paste it into the natsu punishment listings.
Click to expand...


I should have some time next week. I'll give it a go and send you the information to update the other thread.
 
so yeah i'm basically back to right where i was before on the asta matchup. played a good on yesterday and it sucked so hard. the damage difference is just really hard to make up. i think next time i play him i'll do a little better after seeing some of his habits.

basically this guy would sit there with his G button pressed down and take tick lows all day. he was good at throw breaking and had a habit of successfully twitch ducking my throw/66B/whatever mixup. then some miraculous CH 6B comes out or just hammer out either command throw and oops if you guess wrong there goes a boatload of life., the range on the command throws is just sickening as well. the other issue was that even with a life lead, the instant high damage from the throws meant that he could literally make a comeback whenever he wanted. with a life lead, trying to space in any stage aside from infinite was also not working mainly because asta contains space so well and backing yourself to a wall or edge is basically suicide.

if A:6 punished bullrush i would see this matchup being much easier. right now i see that you need to be able to JG A,B and BB6 on reaction. i would say try to JG 22B and 44[A] but the risk is too high. other than that pray you guess right more often than not on command throws. people have suggested that you should run guard guage game on him, but when alot of your damaging guard moves put you in an instant guess a throw break scenario, you're going to lose against asta.

anyone have any words of wisdom.
 
kAb said:
if A:6 punished bullrush i would see this matchup being much easier. right now i see that you need to be able to JG A,B and BB6 on reaction. i would say try to JG 22B and 44[A] but the risk is too high. other than that pray you guess right more often than not on command throws. people have suggested that you should run guard guage game on him, but when alot of your damaging guard moves put you in an instant guess a throw break scenario, you're going to lose against asta.

anyone have any words of wisdom.
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I don't play Natsu but I can tell you that you shouldn't bother JG'ing BB6. For one you don't have any kind of real advantage for doing so as it recovers so fast. If you see any Asta do B just immediately sidestep. It will kill both BB and BB6 and leave you at advantage for a punish or mixup if they only do B.
 
Against Viola I have been having huge success with 2_8B+K into Natsu's 22B, 66B combo during Viola's SET BBB. The orb will completely whiff and the roll will dodge both the 8A+B (only to Viola's left and I do believe this is the version where the orb tracks. Not home so I can't test it), 6B, 3B and 1K follow ups. 44A, 3A and I think 2K will stuff it.

If you read/predict the 8A+B follow up then you can land 4A+B6 PO8B+G as a hefty punish.

You can always go for 66B or wrK but neither nets you more damage unless 66B clean hits or you magically get wrK to combo with 6A+B after blocking the first two strikes. wrK, 44K(K) is guaranteed however. With the wall jump 1A is guaranteed too.
 
after CH WS K in that situation or on 2nd hit CH FC 3KK 8A+B is max damage in open field. near a wall, let that 44KKK rip.
 
Hey guys.

I just found something which is absolutly ridiculous in the Natsu vs Algol matchup. Everytime i punished with 6A+B4 and went with the po mixups with B+K and B which can both be stepped i know, but algol has an even better soloution
to the problem it's his 623B it beats all PO options i mean literally all of them even A+B+K and this is ON HIT! really pisses me off, since 6A+B4PO A:6 is my go to i16 punisher, and as we all know PO A, A:6 and K whiffs on Algol.
So now you cant even punish blocked lows vs algol with 6A+B4, after checking it out thoroughly in training mode the only solution i found so far is to delay PO B which is a really bad option and not in your favor at all, sadly the lesson is you cant use 6A+B4 at all against an algol player who knows this.
 
I'm sure she has other i16 options? Not being able to use PO itself does seem a bit crippling but she has... other options?
I hope? O_O
 
Yeah she has other options to punish lows, it's just a habit of mine to punish with 6A+B4 it gives great oki to with A:6 but you can't hit it on algol anyways. Yeah you can still use other PO transitions without 623B beating everything, it just means you can't use 6A+B4 in that matchup unless you want to put yourself in a really bad spot. You can delay PO B to beat out 623B but if he sniffs it out he can just counter hit you whit 1B or even worse step and do 88B or launch you with 44B and all of them leads to combos that does half life or more depending on how much meter he's willing to spend.
 
This is the kind of info that I think should be gathered into one thread each. Natsu vs Algol, Natsu vs Cervantes, alphabetical order, every fighter, rather than a single thread for everything and then good luck digging out the relevant info -.-
 
Hello 8WR, my name is FoN and I'm new to the SC scene. I enjoy using multiple characters, but I'm currently trying to develop Natsu as my main since she is so darn fun to beat scrubs with. However, one matchup that gives me tremendous difficulty is the Maxi MU. Any tips from the amazing talent lurking around 8wayrun?

Anytime I'm even remotely in his range, he can just throw out any random vertical and it will almost always interrupt majority of what Natsu does. If he suspects a sidestep, which I like to employ, I usually get hit by an A or K move. As soon as he has any advantage, I seem to have to deal with his 5 million mix-up techniques, which naturally doesn't turn out well. On a different note, I seem to have no trouble beating Maxi with Nightmare thanks to his great spacing ability and counterattacks, though I don't intend to main Nightmare since he doesn't really suit my aggressive mix-up style.

Any assistance in this matter would be wonderfully appreciated!
 
Against Maxi GI more, it helps escape sticky situations.

Learn the spots where you can AA to interrupt his stances.

When sidestepping throw out more 22A. It's safe, combos with AAB on counter hit and ducks his highs.
 
Maxi's Left Inner A is unsafe to :4::A+B:
LI A is his Bruce Lee-ish punch he can do after his BE transition for example. And very unsafe.
 
yes, if he does LI A, bomb him like flesh said. he's not gonna use this alot on block but if he does take a 1/3 to a 1/2 of his health for it.

learn where to duck his strings. BBK, 6AK, in many of these situations you can get a CH WS K if he continues the string.

there are a few random -10 moves you should learn to punish. AA will do, but A:6 is better. sometimes range prevents A:6 from being an option.

6A+B is a problem for natsu in this matchup. if you sniff it out or happen to JG it randomly hit him with an A:6.

admittedly this is one of my harder matchups but much of it is from not having gone over his moveset as thoroughly as i need to. ive been going in order, and maxi just isnt up yet.
 
@Flesh Yes stepping to his left avoids 6A+B which is his most fearsome move. You can also roll that way to avoid his 2KB.

@kAb the strings your referring to are 4BBK and 6AAK.

If you block 6A you can interrupt everything from Right Outer with Natsu AA or A:6. A:6 would be the best option because Maxi might be able too loop backwards into Right Cross and go under your interrupt with RC KK from tip range.

I say might because Natsu's AA may be fast enough to catch him regardless. It works on every other character for sure though.
 
Thanks for the tips guys! My difficulty mostly stems from not knowing how to approach Maxi and most Maxi players taking advantage of his range on certain moves, not to mention 99% of them knowing how to fight Natsu (go figure...). I generally don't like fighting Maxi in close because his mix-up is superior to Natsu and 90-95% of Maxis I fight just block everything I do (until they have the advantage) since they know it'll be of little consequence. This leads to the question of what is a good way to pressure Maxi and to induce a guard burst? If I could keep him on the defensive then I could go to town on him.

I'm thinking of taking Maxi into the lab later, and I'll say that he seems really tricky to use. He has so many string variations. So when I employ my sidesteps, I should always step to his left (and use 22A)? I usually eat 6A+B's as punishes so I try to fight as safely as I can. Speedwise, Maxi isn't faster but his strings seem to be more dangerous in Natsu's common attack ranges. He seems like the one character where you have to use him to know his weaknesses.

That's also quite awesome if you can counter his LI A brave edge follow up with a 4A+B. I did not know that!
 
You gotta JG those guard break moves like RO A[K], and the other overhead one. IDK what it is, but he gets a guaranteed Bruce Lee backfist even on guard. I'm trying to learn to JG it on reaction myself. And like Reave said, you gotta know when you can interrupt his strings with AA or A:6. If you can do those two things, you can shut down 90% of his offense I think.
 
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