Natsu match-up and anti-character general discussion thread

FleshMasher

FleshMasher

[13] Hero
This is the thread TaXi originally posted.
It's purpose is general Match up discussion.
Merged it with punishment discussion.
 
So the quickest punishers so far seem to be BK (30 dmg + KD's), 4B (12 dmg + KD's), and 6A+B4A:6 (50 dmg + KD's.)
The last one being the more difficult to do of course. For the last two you can get an inescapable 66K tech trap to bring the damage to 54 and 92 respectively (VERY TIGHT TIMING!!!)
3B into A:6 is also a good punisher and useful for ringouts. Up against walls or edges you'll be able to get the 66K or 1A tech trap as well. Maybe even an A+B.
And big bomb tech traps still catch all sides except back.
 
A:6 still works, now with knockdown. i10 RO punisher and nice damage too.
Short range though.

Dreamkiller said:
6A+B4A:6 (50 dmg + KD's.)
Click to expand...
You sure this works as punishment?
I thought 6A+B stuns on CH only so PO A:6 wouldn't combo after 6A+B as punishment.
Or is PO A:6 so fast that it still works?

Dreamkiller said:
For the last two you can get an inescapable 66K tech trap to bring the damage to 54 and 92 respectively (VERY TIGHT TIMING!!!)
Click to expand...
Do you mean 44K for inescapable tech trap?
 
Well, duh Flesh =P
Speaking of that I found something disappointing.
When pushed out/max range A:6 does severely less damage than done in point blank range.
18 compared to the 42 when not being pushed out.
At the very least , its alot easier to do now. Same goes for the PO A:6
 
Man since A:6 is so much easier to do now i'm at 92% or so success rate, it's really that easy. Damn they made Natsu so good imo. SCVI she will be nerfed....unless they give a gaming update to nerf her.
 
More than likely....yes. But the game is still to early in competitive play for me to create a study yet. I have to do some analyzing and play some amazing players offline before I can begin.

So far I've come to one realization....Natsu has crazy potential. I'll try not to get into another discussion, but not only did they give her damage but they gave her mix-ups like taki use to have, that's a deadly combo on top of speed.
 
Working on Siegfried Punishment at the moment tell me what you think ^^
Siegfried's Unsafe Attacks

6A
3KK at close range

3A
AA at mid-close range
A:6 at mid-close range
4B at mid-close range
KK at mid-close range
3KK at mid-close range

2A
WS K at mid-close range
FC 2B at mid-close range
FC 2A at close range
FC 1K at close range

4A
A:6

FC 2A
WS K at mid-close range
FC 2B at mid-close range
FC 2A at close range
FC 1K at close range

WS AA
9A for RO to your right
66B
66BBE
6A+B for PO, PO A:6 guaranteed

BBA
WS K at mid-close range
FC 2B at mid-close range
FC 2A at close range
FC 1K at close range

B6
AA at close range

6B
66B at mid-close range, tight timing
66B BE at mid-close range tight timing
6A+B at mid-close range for PO, PO A:6 guaranteed

3B
AA at mid-close range
A:6 at mid-close range

1B
A6 at close-mid range.
4B at close-mid range.

WS B
AA at mid-close range
A:6 at mid-close range

3KKB
4B
KK
3KK
BK at mid-close range ro side RO
A6 at mid close range
6A+B at mid-close range for PO, PO A:6 guaranteed

2K
6AK for side RO
4B
66B close timing
66B BE close timing
6A+B for PO, PO A:6 guaranteed

1K
FC 2B, at mid-close range

4KK
KK, at mid-close range
3KK, at mid-close range

FC 2K
FC 2B, at mid-close range

WS K
4B
KK
3KK

7_8_9K
AA at mid-close range

A+B
66K

22_88A
2bA

66B
66B, at mid-close range
66BBE, at mid-close range
6A+B, at mid-close range for PO, PO A:6 guaranteed

33B
AA at mid-close range
A:6 at mid-close range

22_88BB

66B, at mid-close range
66BBE, at mid-close range
6A+B, at mid-close range for PO, PO A:6 guaranteed

11_77B
4B, at close range
KK, at close range
3KK, at close range

44BB
66B, at mid-close range
66BBE, at mid-close range
6A+B, at mid-close range for PO, PO A:6 guaranteed

22_88KAAB
66B, at mid-close range
66BBE, at mid-close range
6A+B, at mid-close range for PO, PO A:6 guaranteed

22_88KA2AA and 22_88Ka2AA
66B, at mid-close range
66BBE, at mid-close range
6A+B, at mid-close range for PO, PO A:6 guaranteed

Same for 22_88kA...

22_88KK
4B
KK
3KK
6A+B, at mid-close range for PO, PO A:6 guaranteed

11_77K
AA at close-mid range

66A+B
FC 2A+B at close range

Running K aka Sliding
4B
6A+B

Siegfried Base Hold SBH A
66B, at mid-close range
66BBE, at mid-close range
6A+B, at mid-close range for PO, PO A:6 guaranteed

SBH K
AA
A:6
4B at mid-close range
KK at mid-close range
3KK at mid-close range

Siegfried Reverse Side Hold SRSH B
6AK for side RO?
9A, at mid-close range for side RO?
66B
66BBE
6A+B, for PO, PO A:6 guaranteed

SRSH K
6AK For side RO?
66B
66BBE
6A+B, for PO, PO A:6 guaranteed

PS.:
4B is a nice punisher.

PPS.:
I hate spacing characters, half their s*** is range safe.
 
I want 4B to be useful, I really like this move. But it seems that the moves it should punish have too much push back, such as your standard 3B. It also seems to have less range than both her A and her K. So basically, this move is a tease, you need to really be on top of the spacing situation or you whiff and die. It does ok against a panicking Astaroth knee, on the other hand. Maybe versus stab as well?
 
Not really a punisher, but I noticed that 4B is really good after PO B and B[K] (if they don't duck the K). It's safe and will garuntee against all standing attacks that are not TC's in the game I believe. I think it's even fast enough to punish some TC's and Step, but I dunno if the Latency online is causing the reason why or something else. Only time will tell.
 
ArcticKomodo said:
You know how Siegfried's 3b has some push back and aa will not punish? Are there any longer range punishers?
Click to expand...

Not really,
Everything is too slow and eats SCH K, the knee.
77B (Not 11B) beats all options from SCH i think but wouldn't punish 3B without stance transition.
 
Liking the Siegfried punishment list Flesh is making. Though it's hilarious (read: makes me sad) that so much seems to be short range and short-mid range. :/
 
Fellow Natsu players. Please do not use playtime online as a way to prove or discuss strategy. Online is only useful if you want to play casual / goof around. B [K] is a pretty bad move in my offline experience.

How have you guy/gals been liking Natsu's 22_88 A as an evasive punishment? I have pretty much started using 22_88 B less unless I am trying to fish for a RO with a followup 66B BE. This move helps out our Shield and Sword match-ups nicely imo.
 
22_88A is great.. tc/sidestep into a mid that gives + on hit/CH spin. Only thing I don't like is buffering 8wr moves in general comes out slower due to the built in quickstep.

-ASZ
 
Ah... I thought I was going crazy when it would seem 22A would TC. But I didn't see any notes that it did so. What mix ups are you doing on Non CH?
 
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