1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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SuicideBubbles said:
Care to explain why he's cheap? I agree about him being top but i fail to see the unfairness. Also IMO he just makes top.
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Meh. Not really cheap, as much as he's overpowered I guess. Wrong choice of words on my part. That, and he's very easy to repeat his Unblockables and Guard Breakers and pull off a victory.
 
@Yoshimitsu: Which unblockables and guard breakers are you referring to? His FC A+BB is good, but it won't win a match on its own. his 4B+K is okay to throw out once in a while, but it's easy to see coming if you abuse it. Don't get me started on his backwards teleport. As for his unblockables, does he even have any good ones (Besides 8A+K, which isn't good for its unblockable property)? You can easily sidestep his 6A+K, as well as the one where he holds his swords back for two fucking seconds before attacking. If you get hit with his DC A, then you need to learn to duck. Some of this crap flies online with lag, but it'd never hold its own offline.
 
Basically, she has a shit-load of moves (Many of which have good range), fucking great combo/tech trap potential, and can deal with a wider variety of crap than most of the cast. Her main weakness (I'm not including ease-of-use) is apparent by looking through her frame data.
 
I still think Ivy is top tier. She has unlimited potential with her new moveset, and then throw in the fact that she can change stances in guard position. People haven't even begun to use Ivy to her full potential so people instead base her off her frame data.

I'd also like to say she has THE CHEAPEST RO combo (outside Hilde) I have ever seen. I believe it is 214BB 9B+K. Don't quote me on that I'm not sure, but it rings out from almost anywhere.
 
Impending_Doom66 said:
I'd also like to say she has THE CHEAPEST RO combo (outside Hilde) I have ever seen. I believe it is 214BB 9B+K. Don't quote me on that I'm not sure, but it rings out from almost anywhere.
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that shit rings out from HELLA far, like half a stage away. ARRGH IVYYY!
 
Rico said:
I mean, I can talk for hours about this game but most of the time no one's listening =)
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Heheh, same here.


Yoshimitsu said:
Who else thinks Mitsurugi should be top tier?
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*Raises his hand*
...But yeah, I'm not very knowledgeable...

My reason is because he's quick as hell.
Quick execution time, quick cooldown, very decent range, dangerous horizontals, and a very good mix up game that isn't canned.
For the most part, you can't really read him. You can't win with distance, and with all these quick moves, pressure doesn't seem to be the key either, even though it still seems like the best option, as poor as it is.
 
Mitsu still has problems with dealing with step, so even though he has a strong mix-up game he doesn't get to apply it as much as he'd like against players who know how to avoid him. That said when he lands he does good damage with good follow-up options, so he's still an upper mid in my book.

What is cooldown in a fighting game? If you mean recovery he's actually fairly bad on block on most of his moves.
 
I personally think that nightmare should be at least upper mid and so should seig. they have a decent mix up game and if you use the right moves seig is far from slow.

I think rock, maxi and yoda are trash.

in reality hilde is just a party trick character and once you have worked her out she is trash also. in saying that occasionally i still fall for her lame ass ring out combo but i still think she is trash.

I just cant see setsuka as being top teir maybe i just havent vs'ed enough decent setsuka players and dont know enough about the character
 
I meant the pause between two attacks, I suppose it's what you call recovery?
It factors the time it takes after the first attack to perform another action, and then factors the time needed to hit with the next attack.

Whenever I block, I generally can't hit before Mitsurugi is ready to block or hit me again. (I do know about frame data, but maybe I'm not using it as well as I should. I still generally choose my attacks consciously, and Setsuka should be rather quick.)
But it seems that Mitsurugi can keep me pressured better than anyone else can.
 
The only character I can't place in the Tier-list yet is Taki.

She's such an advanced character in Soul Calibur IV, so it's hard to measure her potential IMO. Also, I'm all new with her.

They cut down her damage, but then her PO-game and mixups can mess anyone up. She can pull off some damaging combos, like PO 236B, WR K, 3bK PO, PORC, 1BA PO, PO B_K_A, but she has no "simple-hits-combo-to-death". Her A is i10 (heard i9 as well, but that info is wrong?), so she can keep advantage, punish well and pressure.

I feel that she really has to work hard to win, and it requires a lot of work to master her. Would say between mid- and top-tier, but can't specify where. What's your take?
 
vane505 said:
I feel that she really has to work hard to win
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I believe that would put her in mid. Barring player skill, an uphill battle for anything isn't a good sign...

if I recall, her main strengths are in her speed and rushdown, however stuff like 1BA has holes in it, I'd think.

Can someone explain to me why Cass is top tier? (Sophie, too, OK, let's just say the Sisters).

Cass in particular doesn't have really good lows (I dunno, maybe I'm looking at this wrong, are you supposed to be throwing instead?) and Sophie is... um, really basic it looks like.
 
DrakeAldan said:
Cass in particular doesn't have really good lows (I dunno, maybe I'm looking at this wrong, are you supposed to be throwing instead?) and Sophie is... um, really basic it looks like.
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ok, from what i know about the sisters, their game is more or less based on poking and punishing. and their BBs deal a lot of dmg for being pokes, and they can turtle you into doing something unsafe, then sophie's 236B:4 for something like 60 dmg, or cassy's 236: x5 for ring out

since sophie's not about combos, she can't apply pressure as well as cassy, which is why cassy's better at this point, imo.

plus, cassy's "complete" throw game is awesome. i'm addicted to landing 2B+G/2A+G lol
 
Can someone explain to me the big deal about the sisters? I never saw them as being Top Tier material. And most people who I see use them focus on their down slash then upper slash combo.
 
Ljkabookie said:
I personally think that nightmare should be at least upper mid and so should seig. they have a decent mix up game and if you use the right moves seig is far from slow.
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Sieg isn't really that slow, and he does have an excellent mixup game. Nightmare, on the other hand, doesn't. He's very unsafe on block, and all his stance transitions can be stuffed with relative ease. The lows in his mixups are telegraphed, and he doesn't do jack shit to the soul gauge, so you almost never have to take any risks against him while he's pressuring you.
 
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