Reave
[13] Hero
Brad and Zack are the kings of tag throws.
Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate
- Thread starter UNDERX
- Start date
DrakeAldan
Follow the rules!
A-freakin-ha.
If a Critical Hold is done at the earliest possible moment (read- someone is mashing), the recovery time is almost the same as if it were slow escaped at the maximum speed.
I don't like that at all, but the numbers don't lie. So this is why I can't stun hold-happy opponents.
Also, I know what's throwing me off about this game.
It's this damn nonexistent blockstun. Oh, you just blocked a 7-hit string and you wanna retaliate? Too bad, have some more!
I see why some people just swear off online for everything. I block a wakeup sweep, retaliate with a 5-frame low throw, and get 9KKK'd out of it. How does that even work?!
Reminds me of SCIV "frametraps"...
If a Critical Hold is done at the earliest possible moment (read- someone is mashing), the recovery time is almost the same as if it were slow escaped at the maximum speed.
I don't like that at all, but the numbers don't lie. So this is why I can't stun hold-happy opponents.
Also, I know what's throwing me off about this game.
It's this damn nonexistent blockstun. Oh, you just blocked a 7-hit string and you wanna retaliate? Too bad, have some more!
I see why some people just swear off online for everything. I block a wakeup sweep, retaliate with a 5-frame low throw, and get 9KKK'd out of it. How does that even work?!
Reminds me of SCIV "frametraps"...
Windstar
[13] Hero
Yeah, having the same trouble here. Probably best to just hold down and then mash throw just after blocking.
EDIT: Awesome Pai
0VincentRayne0
Faith
okay. so i pretty much play my Pai the same way. so i guess i'm not as bad as i though. I just thought i was missing something crucial with her. but then again Pai might have more potential than this guy is showing? only time will tell.
DrakeAldan
Follow the rules!
RIPPING THEM INTO PIECES
Windstar
[13] Hero
Was that you?
I finally figured out how to do Kokoro's 3 part throw! Go me! I'll explain it tomorrow
taffertier
[10] Knight
Eliot still got gimped on tag partners and tag throws. I am very disappoint in you Team Ninja.
Edit: But he's also the only guy in the game that can wear glasses, so at least they gave him something.
Reptile
Soul Calibur V
I got a solution for this. Go into your move list, find your most powerful throw, and use it on them everytime they predictably hold after getting stunned. They take a shit ton of damage if you throw someone when they're trying to hold.
Djangoknight
[10] Knight
Practice all combo with Stagger Escape Fastest and Recovery on,
It actually doesn't show every tag throw, just the neutral h+p ones.
For example Tina has a tag throw off an opponent's back with Bass/Mr. Strong, and it wasn't shown in the video.
DrakeAldan
Follow the rules!
Hi Counter Throw, right?
Yeah, it's hard to react to the holds sometimes though. It's like it really is a guess chance, I feel dumb every time I whiff a throw on a stunned opponent.
And what do you do if they low hold? They crouch right under your throw. If you just keep attacking, well, they recovered from their stun fast if they mashed it out, so not everything will work... Go for a guard break?
Yeah, I saw that.
Seems like there are only a few moves that link with CB. How are combos listed in this game? Still 100% guaranteed only?
UnseenWombat
[14] Master
Where are there any combos listed? I found a few in an anemic thread in Ayane's SA on FSD, but I know there's gotta be more. There are none on Youtube (I didn't see any anyway).
That's exactly my problem too. Screw these online mashers. Here I am trying to play intelligently and they're just smashing out buttons and beating me every time.
Yes, a Critical hold is 30 frames and you have to wait for the recovery of the string that you are cancelling to end before you can do something else. I'm ignoring the idea of online delay here as that's just variable of course and merely talking about offline play. In the Alpha Demo and Dead or Alive Dimensions they added 8 frames of recovery when you hold out of critical, this definitely helped, but was removed from the game at the E3 build.
As for the block stun, the disadvantage is applied once the 'string input' window expires. So the player can delay the string but once the string input window time expires it begins the - or + advantage.
Reave
[13] Hero
Use a low throw. Everyone has them in DOA. They are not just a special quirk of a few characters like SC.
Reptile
Soul Calibur V
You can recover from a stun with mashing?
1) Knockdowns are actually there if your character has a ground game or anti-wake-up setup. Highs are the fastest attacks and are typically used to extend the stun in a quick way. The problem with low holding is that you're susceptible to mids, and low holding is considered crouching. Many mids have different effects on a crouching opponent including putting them in a deeper stun (i.e. sit down).
2) Yes. An example is Bayman's 1PP and 2KK. Both are guaranteed on Counter hit or in stun.
3) You should be using the high launcher if you think they might predict a Critical burst. It's part of the mind game as CB! is a mid
4) Yes. The VF characters, or at least Akira.
5) Pretty much, they make it so it's not so much reactionary punish but prediction that is key. Some would say that if SF4 is 60% mental and 40% technical, DOA is 80% mental and 20% technical.
Yes, you can stagger escape many of the stuns by mashing directions, punch, or kick. Not all, but many. The game just doesn't tell you when to stagger escape (Hint: It's any time you're in critical state).
Age_of_Truth
[12] Conqueror
Damn why did they remove the change? Did they ever explain?
DrakeAldan
Follow the rules!
Well, if they're attacking, you can't throw them. (Unless you use an offensive hold, apparently, which can interrupt like regular SC throws. I guess I need to use Takedown at advantage more often.)
Trying to hold them takes matchup (string) experience. I don't know the half of this game, it seems like you can get by off of string ignorance alone.
You can try to get a CH, but... It's online... and...
well I mean, in SC, you have moves with short blockstun, and moves with long blockstun. A lot of moves have long blockstun, so you can fit inputs in there. There's a 20 frame buffer window to help with that, too. If someone is mashing BB in your face it's easy to interrupt them. The general action is slower, is what I'm trying to say, I guess.
if I'm reading you right, in this game, the delay window is the blockstun- which is hardly anything, these windows are not that big.
so, someone's mashing in my face, I go, "I gotta get this guy off me. But, I have advantage blocking all this, let's go for a 6P."
Works in VF, block something, go for the CH mid elbow. Right?
so I wait for the string to end, then go for the 6P and... I'm late. I get CH out of my 6P even though I have the advantage.
The game seems a lot faster than Tekken or SC. In those games, the blockstun is usually long, even though something might be -10 on block, both characters take a long time getting there.
In this game -10 is... bam there it is LOOK LOOK LOOK oh it's gone
Like some kind of flash. (Like trying to punish Pyrrha's 236B with 3B every time, the blockstun's so short, you're not getting it unless you predict it.)
And it's not like I can't deal with that, fast-paced sounds kind of nice. But... Online!!!
I can't duck the Dragon Kick even though it's used at really obvious times. It feels like Mitsurugi SCIV 1A all over again. And I know this is just compounding with my matchup ignorance and not knowing the right timing to retaliate.
The netcode is not as good as SCV's or TTT2's so this is distressing, considering the game is much more demanding, it seems to me.
But whatever. I know the only way to beat online is strong theory. Back to studying.
I don't have the reaction time for this... I guess I'll get used to it...
if they mash out the critical hold, I mean.
If they don't do anything when they're stunned, you get a lot of time before they can guard, you can hit them at an easy, leisurely pace, or use slower moves.
If they mash out the hold, your options just shrank in an instant. If you're not paying attention you'll lose the stun opportunity. You might hit them, but then it'll be normal hit, and most of my stuff is - on normal hit... which means I'm getting mashed on again.
This game doesn't have a guard meter, though. I can work with that, at least.
And you guys run Best of 5, too. As you should, if reading is that important in this game.
I can just imagine EVO running DOA with Best of 3. Oh boy.
Djangoknight
[10] Knight
everyone has at least 1 throw that can punish anything -8 mostly it is their 4T or 6T
as for critical hold being mash the stun is still the same as stagger escape on fastest so your options are still the same if it was a "legit" stun combo.
i.e. Tina 6K is +31 but +22 on fastest stagger escape, so you need to look for Mid-P/K or highs that are 21 frames that keep the stun going or launch. and if they Hold out it isn't gonna matter for the Stun, and if you were waiting for the Hold you would punish with a Throw. Throw are Hi Counter on to holds, for i.e. tina has 2 special throws on counter [3]64T 120 damage on Hi Counter or 33T 105 damage on Hi Counter.
Unfortunately yes. They removed it because they added them to the 3-point hold system that Dimensions and the Alpha Build had. They felt it was a balance to the fact that you could counter any mid with 4H. By hearing the fan demand to go to 4-point for DOA5 they removed the universal "advanced hold" for mid punches and mid kicks and removed those additional recovery frames. Their reasoning was, "People wouldn't use the hold if it was 4-point AND had the extra recovery."
To that, the competitive players told them they were wrong but we'll see how it plays out. It should be noted that the most competitive version of DOA (3.1) before DOA5 was also using the 30 frame holds (with 28 frames for low holds) and was still usable due to the Natural Combos and punishment damage they provided.