Discussion about Just Guard

Should Just Guard be removed?

  • Total voters
    60
Status
Not open for further replies.
I like how the thread title is misspelled now.

EDIT: Make that liked. Damn mods doing their jobs, you'll pay for this!
 
You can use meter as part of a JG mindgame as well to an extent. Perfect example is Maxi RC A, A+B+K_ RC A>A+B+K. If your opponent tries to JG immediately and you delay they eat a fuckton of damage, if they block you get mixups. This is in essence the usual RC A mindgame but with reward much more in Maxi's favour and it would be less potent without JG, a good example of the mechanic adding depth imo.
 
Syn_SC said:
Because a just impact was a 2 frame window and death on failed attempt, also the opponent had a chance to re-gi.

Most people complaining about jg just don't like the idea of the opponent getting garunteed damage for a correct read, in my experience at least.
Click to expand...
I guess so, but even that way you needed a JGI to counter it, didn't it?
 
Yes but if the player missed it it was in the players mind their fault. Some people just don't accept JG as legitimate defence and will subconciously do anything to avoid acknowledging their on in match mistakes, so blaming the mecahnic is very easy.
 
Just guard yoshi CE all day! I love the sound of like20 jg's in 2 seconds haha.
I think JG's are legit because they are high risk high reward. And I find them useful against astas who spam 44A
*And to whoever moved the thread to tactics thanks :) Saved me the 5 seconds haha*
 
Yoshi CE JGed makes me sad.....but I wonder if someone did that in a tourney? I mean pardon my post, but JGs don't scare me unless they know the opponent's mind haha.
 
Syn_SC said:
Siegfried did bG ~ 3B? Fuck I just lost.
And I do this, so don't try calling it out as bs. :)
Click to expand...
I will, thank you.
Siegfried used bG 3B, the JG failed... The opponent blocks. They don't get hit. It doesn't stop them blocking.
JG will only activate a certain number of frames after releasing G, correct? Why would you not reapply G when those frames are over? Nothing stops you from doing that, and it effectively means that you're guarding normally the entire duration, but with a risk-free JG possibility for a few frames.
If that JG was timed to JG B, 3B would just be blocked, and they would lose nothing, because given that they weren't stepping either attack, they would've blocked either B or 3B anyway.
Syn_SC said:
You can use meter as part of a JG mindgame as well to an extent. Perfect example is Maxi RC A, A+B+K_ RC A>A+B+K. If your opponent tries to JG immediately and you delay they eat a fuckton of damage, if they block you get mixups. This is in essence the usual RC A mindgame but with reward much more in Maxi's favour and it would be less potent without JG, a good example of the mechanic adding depth imo.
Click to expand...
Again, they do not "eat a fuckton of damage", they block as normal.
 
The JG window closes as soon as the opponent hits guard again, meaning they won't be blocking. I catch high level players out with this. But no you must be right. >_>

*subtext*
I think you're an idiot salty about people JG'ing him/her all day. Though I could well be wrong...
 
Syn_SC said:
*subtext*
I think you're an idiot salty about people JG'ing him/her all day. Though I could well be wrong...
Click to expand...
Oi oi, keep it civil, fam. No ad hominems please.

garjian said:
JG will only activate a certain number of frames after releasing G, correct? Why would you not reapply G when those frames are over? Nothing stops you from doing that, and it effectively means that you're guarding normally the entire duration, but with a risk-free JG possibility for a few frames.
Click to expand...
In theory, yes, that's correct.

In reality, when using the "safer-JG" technique, unless you have perfect timing every time, you will either cut your JG window short, or leave a vulnerable period before you block again.

From my experience, tapping G and then leaving yourself open guarantees you'll always have the full JG window, it does leave you vulnerable but it's more reliable, with easier execution. I think most players JG this way, though I don't have hard proof.

In theory, G~G is an invincible technique, but I haven't seen it applied consistently in-tournament. But, I assume a couple of video demonstrations of online play would probably be sufficient to prove your point.



Anyway, I would argue that, as per the nature of JG, overreliance on it makes you "passive", and vulnerable to offensive pressure, throws, lows, mindgames based on delay tactics/heavy guard break moves. Even with a perfect G~G technique it doesn't stop repeated kicks to the shin.

It's like putting yourself at -7, is the risk, I think. Obviously you don't want to put yourself at this heavy disadvantage if you don't need to.
 
In practice, nobody. I repeat: NOBODY taps G, releases on frame 2 and holds again on frame 8. No competitive player does. Fuck what people show could be done in training mode.

At drake, stating an opinion and outlining it as personal opinion only I believe constitutes civil. If not, sorry.
 
DrakeAldan said:
Oi oi, keep it civil, fam. No ad hominems please.


In theory, yes, that's correct.

In reality, when using the "safer-JG" technique, unless you have perfect timing every time, you will either cut your JG window short, or leave a vulnerable period before you block again.

From my experience, tapping G and then leaving yourself open guarantees you'll always have the full JG window, it does leave you vulnerable but it's more reliable, with easier execution. I think most players JG this way, though I don't have hard proof.

In theory, G~G is an invincible technique, but I haven't seen it applied consistently in-tournament. But, I assume a couple of video demonstrations of online play would probably be sufficient to prove your point.



Anyway, I would argue that, as per the nature of JG, overreliance on it makes you "passive", and vulnerable to offensive pressure, throws, lows, mindgames based on delay tactics/heavy guard break moves. Even with a perfect G~G technique it doesn't stop repeated kicks to the shin.

It's like putting yourself at -7, is the risk, I think. Obviously you don't want to put yourself at this heavy disadvantage if you don't need to.
Click to expand...
But again, if you're doing this without thinking, and only doing it in situations you would standing block anyway, you'd be no less passive than you were. Over-reliance is over-reliance, and I'm not even suggesting relying on it.
Syn_SC said:
In practice, nobody. I repeat: NOBODY taps G, releases on frame 2 and holds again on frame 8. No competitive player does. Fuck what people show could be done in training mode.
Click to expand...
Just because nobody uses it yet does not mean that it doesn't work, as you say, apparently people have shown it in training mode. It also does not mean that it won't be used in the future, people don't do a lot of things until they know it inside out. Including me at this moment.
JGing in this way is still a conscious thought process for me right now, when I or anybody else is used to it, I'm sure there'll be some video proof for you.

However, what I have seen in tournament streams, and through personal experience online is that occasionally, somebody will JG a 3B or similar, clearly not on reaction, but because they expect that about 15 frames after their attack was blocked, the opponent will have retaliated. While that wouldn't necessarily prove the risk-free part of this, it does prove that people do use basically this JG technique, just consciously.

If I find any footage of it, I'll update this. ...but yeah, I probably won't be looking too hard... hmmm...

Syn_SC said:
The JG window closes as soon as the opponent hits guard again, meaning they won't be blocking.
Click to expand...
Yes.

The JG window opens as soon as they release G.
The JG window closes as soon as they press G.
---
Blocking...
JG window...
Blocking...
And no gaps between.

Everyone you've used it on has indeed expected to JG the quicker hit, but they didn't bother to press G again afterwards. Nothing prevented them from doing so, and in doing so, the quicker hit would still be JGed if it were used.
 
In SF 3rd strike, you could say exactly the same thing about the parry there. Nearly 10 years on its not the case at any competitive level, so please just stop trying to force through a redundant argument. >_>
 
Syn_SC said:
In SF 3rd strike, you could say exactly the same thing about the parry there. Nearly 10 years on its not the case at any competitive level, so please just stop trying to force through a redundant argument. >_>
Click to expand...
You do know ranting on about a whole different game & not SCV & trying to make him stop arguing is a sign of weaknesses, telling him he's right in a resilient way, right?
 
And you do know that I'm not rising to your bait and instead am just hitting the ignore button right?

Shoo you obnoxious troll, shoo.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom