The fact that the best defense that you can come up with is tearing down another character to make Patroklos look better is on shaky ground. Especially since this is an objectively better character than Patroklos for many reasons. So I'll break down why comparing Pat. to Sieg and stating that Pat. is better doesn't work on objective and subjective grounds.
When people try to throw out "objectively better" when talking about subjective stories... yeah. Also, "tearing down another character" only applies if being compared to Patroklos is by itself is tearing them down. I put each on equal ground, and Pat does not come off as worse.
Siegfried was also looking for the damned sword in the first place. As you also pointed out, Sieg wasn't malfested at the time, so Sieg is doubly-justified.
Siegfried fought the evil spirit of the sword yet still didn't figure out the sword was evil. Patroklos was faced with a reasonable, if ruthless, nobleman.
You don't have an argument. Sieg was not justified at all.
Your point? He also murdered those people to power Soul Edge as Nightmare. He also later hated himself for what he did and didn't shy away from responsibility.
The murders were done prior to Soul Edge influenced him, and it's never been implied that he regretted anything from the period before Soul Edge possessed him outside the murder of his father.
- Disrespects friend and foe alike.
Siegfried did it first.
He got a lot better later on. I also recall that he just ditched his old mercenary band till V, he didn't violently murder them and get a time travel reset button. (which was also absent when he killed his father, oh look! good writing!)
Funny fact, Patroklos also got better at it, but I suppose you missed that. Also, Siegfried ditched said party because he ran away like a scared child and never met up with them again. But please, tell me how he would've refrained from killing the Schwarzwind while possessed by Soul Edge- oh right, he wouldn't.
Also, I agree on the time travel being stupid, so I have no dog in that fight. It's not a problem with Patroklos though, it's a problem with the bigger plot.
Sieg wasn't designated as the hero at the time and he was always going to kill that guy in the first place. Again, Sieg wasn't a good guy at the time, so the comparison here is pointless.
And somehow you missed the fact that Patroklos was supposed to be a villain when this game started out, just like how Siegfried was in Edge?
That was only when he unknowingly murdered his father (doesn't justify anything, but his reaction is justified here) and again, he later admits that what he did was wrong and works to atone for it. In fact, part of why he murdered all of those people was to revive his father, it was not out of denial. He also didn't whine about it, he went into a genuine search through his soul.
No, he works to atone for what he did under the sway of the sword. His murderous quest to get it is not even an afterthought with him.
Reasons that are made clear in the story and actually do make sense considering how he's lived his life. But hey, let's complain about decent writing!
Except that Pat's love for his sister was his only redeeming quality and he pisses on it by threatening said-sister three times. Also, he later murders her and gets a time travel reset button right out of nowhere because this story is terrible.
Gee, it's almost like he was raised to believe malfested were evil or something. OH WAIT.
"He later murders her"- under mind control, and it's notable that unlike every other good guy with an opinion on Pyrrha, he is the only one that doesn't want her killed.
Never denied, except there are no undertones of incest present.
Except the fact that Siegfried's obsession with his father is more blatant than Pat's towards Sophitia, and can easily be seen as incestual if you want. If you are not arguing that Pats obsession with Sophitia is, I can pretty much accept it. Pyrrha is more notably incestuous.
Actually, Soul Calibur was silent in III when he vowed to atone for his sins by destroying Soul Edge. (A vow that he'd made in I after that Xianghua fight, but it's only in III when he's really able to make good on his word)
Oh, nice, he managed to make one choice. Good. It's almost like Patroklos had this whole plotline where he was the only one who didn't want to kill his sister while everyone else wanted him to.
Sieg chose to go after Soul Edge and use it for evil; He later chose to fight against it and failed; When given a chance, he chose to wield Soul Calibur to destroy Soul Edge. I don't see where you're coming from here. I can see a case for Soul Calibur influencing Sieg in IV, but he appears to have been strong-willed enough to not let it turn the world into crystal and still beat Nightmare.
Soul Calibur only didn't manage to make him do that because it went dormant at the end of IV. Let's not forget he's still a servant to the sword 17 years later. Patroklos was never led around by the nose once he left Dumas, so yeah, Sieg is actually worse than Pat.
Thanks for making Sieg much better by comparison, I think we can see whose the stronger-willed wielder here. Also, I thought Pat was also going through his character arc to be his own man? Then follow that nonsense up with that time travel bs as well? The guilt of murdering his father will never leave Siegfried and again he didn't get a time travel reset button. (Yes, I bring this up a lot because it has a point)
Because Sieg was not at all a slave to Soul Edge for a long time(and arguably even longer to Calibur), while Pat got taken over for all of a few minutes. And again, the reset button is bullshit, I agree. Pat has a much stronger will.
Sieg's backstory and reasons for being evil make sense and has a good grounding for character development that is actually utilized throughout the series. He starts out as a villainous anti-hero at worst in Soul Blade, becomes a villain/anti-hero (depending on the timeline) in I and II, and becomes a good guy in III and stays that way.
1. Pat is also set up as a villain at the beginning.
2. Sieg is only ever a true hero in 3. In 4, he becomes a Knight Templar controlled by SC.
As it stands, Patroklos' story is so full of contrivances (again, the time travel deus ex machina) and bs that any development that the brat does go through (artificial though it is) really has no legitimatcy.
I honestly agree to a degree on the contrivances, but I don't think it impacts negatively on Patroklos himself, it just ruins the sense of story in the game itself.
Not to mention that it appears that the writers tried to take Sieg's story, put it in acceleration and cram all of it into one game and failed horribly.
I agree partly, except I really don't think Sieg's story is particularly good in the first place. It's one of the best in SC because SC has always been crap in the story department.
Mainly because Patroklos having soul calibur is a contrivance in of itself (SCII weapon profile, Soul Calibur is only meant to respond to the pure hearted and strong willed, Pat is neither of these things; Not to mention that Pat is malfested and that should be getting worst because of his negative actions and attitude, but it doesn't because plot no jutsu. PS: Don't care what the art book says about this) '
"Soul Calibur is only meant to respond to the pure hearted and strong willed"
And yet the man who was a psychotic murderer even without Soul Edge and easily controlled wielded it. I'd argue we take the plot of the games before statements from a weapon profile that was from before SC was established to be evil in it's own way(Order as opposed to Chaos). Primary Canon>Secondary Canon and all that jazz.
and the writers fail to give us anything likable about this brat without having him ruin it himself.
Except his love for his sister which he never really ruins because the only moment when he really does something bad about it is completely justified, and the second one not even being him but Soul Calibur.
In short, if you were Patroklos' lawyer and comparing him to Siegfried is your best defense for the case? You would fail.
Nah, not even close. You just decided to hate a character and want to continue hating him even though he's no worse than a character you like.
