Useful Mixups/Resets

rudeb0y

rudeb0y

[10] Knight
I've started looking more at not taking guaranteed damage and instead opting for a better mix-up opportunities and potentially more damage in the long run.

For example, take FC3K, RCC 3B. 40dmg. Opponent back techs after 3B.

So, you could possibly force a block with 66A+B, unless they have an auto-GI or can ukemi JG. The pressure tails off because of disadvantage on block and spacing.

How about not RCC 3B, instead go for DGF G B?

If they get up and it hits, you've done 4 more damage anyway and are in a better position. Not to mention the other DGF mix-up possibilities. Guard damage is probably about the same as 66A+B. Is this worth the 18 dmg you sacrifice for not doing RCC 3B all the time?

FC3K and 3B both seem like good places to force these kind of mind-games because of the lack of being able to tech afterwards.

There must be hundreds of use cases.. and perhaps some are more useful (risk/reward) in some match-ups.

As a Yoshi player, do you use situations like that described? If so, how often and what do you use?
 
Against people without the MU knowledge I definitely think it's legit to go into stance rather than finish your combo, for example instead of ending with 2(A+B) 66 you can just 2(A+B) and make them block a held B, then stuff whatever they're doing with MCF.

And the DFG thing you mentioned also works I guess, unless they know to block low (like Mist stance) it can get you a lot of free damage.

& shoutouts to messing up Earslicer and getting A+B, then having them block it so you can 6K
 
I don't know how well this works but someone should test this or something. After Earslicer you sometimes get a reset with the Deathchopper if they tech. instead of taking a 66A+B you could use Dgk B & K or anything else that you might like. in spots like this Dgk could be useful for ringouts or big combos. The only proble I see is that Dgk B can't hit grounded but Dgk K can but you dont get anything for it. if you get the chance just tell me what you think of this.
 
I'm not sure about the reset, but you can force a 50/50 if they tech left or right after earslicer. You have to reduce the gap though..

For example, on some chars, you can 3B, a:B+K... then purposefully whiff a 6A/4A. At this point, you can force a mixup - throws will catch at max range. Only way out is to break the throw, or pre-emptively be holding 2 during the tech to duck the throw, leaving them wide open for 3b. aB beats out all attacks... even a back-dash will get countered because of the advantage. 3B+K also does well here if you want to stay safe / possible counter-hit launch.

6A whiffing also gives you time to confirm the tech direction and if they don't tech you are still on top of them whilst they are grounded.

It's one of the few places in Yoshi's game where he can play whiff mind-games like this. If you want to bait attacks, whiff something like A+B. You'll be able to step out the way of Pat if he tried to 66B or 3B you for example. Or, you could (A+B) K and get the hell outta dodge, sometimes into CE to whiff punish their move :)
 
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@rudeb0y

Have you found anything that you prefer with mix-ups & resets ???

By the way, Sorry if I haven't been posting in the Yoshi SA. I haven't been able to play SCV for a good week now. Need a new Xbox like now !!!

There are some things I want to try !
 
Yeah it is pretty quiet around here these days :S I'm getting some work off FC3K, 6A (whiff), iMCF frame trap... but that's about it - and the 6A whiff after a:B+K into 214A+G on people teching, match-up dependent though. Also had a few opponents learning deal with it, so need to evolve the game-plan some more.

I also did mess about with FC3K DGF cancel into WRB. Seems to work because people are ducking in reaction to seeing DGF, or ducking when they see the cancel because of stance throw. Actually gonna give this another run, as even if the opponent learns to stand/block it, you might then be able to start using DGF K again (not used this move much in such a long time!)

I've got something else I wanna start trying out but it's combo related.. 6A counter hits - as it combos with iMCF or 6B BE for excellent meter-less damage and a possible 30 health boost.

The set-up I was trying in training was against Tira, block all then she attacks BB. The attack I would use would be something like just plain B.

Step right 6(A) will counter her BB. Depending how fast you do it, she will end up back turned or not (faster = BT). If back turned, you can iMCF Combo. If still facing, 6B BE works, although I have had it whiff as well.. so need to check the space. Anyway, if you can link into iMCF on back turned (takes practice but not as difficult as it seems) you get a 110-114 (clean hit) damage combo with RCC 3B, a:B+K, DNK, 2K - + 30HP if you guess right!! That's pretty damn good without a wall or meter. If you guess wrong on health drain you are still getting that 110 damage - so you can do nearly half bar if you can get that counter-hit - just don't try this when you are in yellow HP :)

There's so many other possible options here as well depending on the situation - it's iMCF combo's after all (66B DNK, RCC 3B 4A series, deathcopter trap for even more damage, etc).
 
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The mix up (FC3k DGF Cancel into WRB) seems to be pretty viable and safe and makes for great mind game. I might have to try it out once i get back into SCV. I've also had problem with iMCF after 6A due to spacing but it seem like it be good near a wall or ring edge for Ring out & bigger damage. I find it easier to hit iMCF when your opponent is BT after 6A just due how they fall from 6A. I will try and play with it some to see were I can use it! It possibly could lead into mix ups & resets as well.
 
rudeb0y said:
I've started looking more at not taking guaranteed damage and instead opting for a better mix-up opportunities and potentially more damage in the long run.

For example, take FC3K, RCC 3B. 40dmg. Opponent back techs after 3B.

So, you could possibly force a block with 66A+B, unless they have an auto-GI or can ukemi JG. The pressure tails off because of disadvantage on block and spacing.
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Dash forward after the 3B and react. If they backtech, you can iFC 3K them again, and it can't be stepped, backdashed, or interrupted, or 4KB, which can't be interrupted or backdashed easily. If they side tech, you can choose a different, safer mixup. If they just press G and stand up right away and you don't react in time, dash-iFC 3K will still interrupt the fastest attacks. If they stay on the ground, take your oki mixup on reaction to it.

You don't need to sacrifice the 3B damage to continue pressuring. The only thing you could gain is being able to do more than just iFC 3K and 4KB as a mixup while still being uninterruptable.

The real places to run your untechable knockdown mixups is after DNK in a combo, which is another untechable knockdown that works the same way as iFC 3K. Here, you're giving up 7 damage at most for a mixup. The best mixup imo is:

FC 2K - it'll look like you messed up the combo, but instead, you're getting the meatier FC 2K instead of a heavily scaled 2K. Good if they stay on the ground or if they stand up.
Grab - People like to get up here because they think they'll block 3B or something. Alternatively, iFC 3K
2(A+B)66 - force block that is unreactable, unlike 66A+B. If they try to roll, it'll combo them on the ground for 42 damage. If they block or get hit standing, it's FLE time (don't do the 66)
2A+BB - safe 29 damage force block mid to trip people up if they have good answers for FLE. Alternatively, delayed 3B to punish them harder for ducking.
66A+B - guard damage or maybe they think they'll roll it and punish. Spoiler alert: they can't roll it.
DGF, DGF cancel
 
Signia said:
66A+B - guard damage or maybe they think they'll roll it and punish. Spoiler alert: they can't roll it.
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Unfortunately, This is MU specific. Just tested on Pyrrha and she can roll either side. Cervantes can roll right. Might be worth looking into.. if there are chars that cannot roll either way it, might be useful there.

I picked this up from Soulcalibur.FR.. If guard break is your game.. try 1B+K instead of 66A+B for the safest way to hit rollers and do guard damage if they block. Only thing is it pushes far away if it hits grounded. But then, since 2A+B catches rollers as well, you might as well use that? And 2A+BB breaks in the same as 1B+K and does slightly more damage on a roller so - whatever floats your boat.

Signia said:
2(A+B)66 - force block that is unreactable, unlike 66A+B. If they try to roll, it'll combo them on the ground for 42 damage. If they block or get hit standing, it's FLE time (don't do the 66)
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More weird shit., combos on Cervy left but not right roll. Pyrrha combo'ed both rolls.

So on the whole.. looks like 2A+B/(A+B) mix-ups are the way to go post DNK? They're giving you damage on rollers and sleepers, guard damage on block and a shed load of further damage/guard damage options (2(A+B)(B) will break in 5 or 6... FLE A+B etc..) Or if you've got some post block 1B+K set-ups (66B TC under AAs..) they can work too
 
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rudeb0y said:
Unfortunately, This is MU specific. Just tested on Pyrrha and she can roll either side. Cervantes can roll right. Might be worth looking into.. if there are chars that cannot roll either way it, might be useful there.
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Aw, lame.

So on the whole.. looks like 2A+B/(A+B) mix-ups are the way to go post DNK? They're giving you damage on rollers and sleepers, guard damage on block and a shed load of further damage/guard damage options (2(A+B)(B) will break in 5 or 6... FLE A+B etc..) Or if you've got some post block 1B+K set-ups (66B TC under AAs..) they can work too
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Yeah I might as well talk about what to do after those things are blocked. 1B+K/2A+BB leave you at a spacing where you can backdash anything, step without getting AA'd, backdash-step, and at this spacing and disadvantage, iMCF interrupts just about everything that will reach you anyway. The blockstun is also short, so all these things make my opponents generally not attack afterward. So, what I like to do is steal the initiative back and dash-iFC3K or space a 3K.

For 2(A+B), B_(B) will go under highs. 6A+B short hop will go over fast mid kicks and mid horizontals, and if it is blocked, FLE B is uninterruptable, or you can A+B neutral hop and beat like everything, or you can cancel stance and mix up. It also goes over most BBs, if I'm not mistaken. If they have a mid that'll beat both FLE B and short hops, try 22_88 FLE step. With a big enough whiff, you can FLE K DGF A+B combo them. And yes, FLE does massive guard damage.

I haven't a whole lot of testing with FLE, but neither has my opponents, so... FLE hop to victory!
 
What you guys think for 6(A) for a reset/mix-up after a wall combo ?

6(A) will give a opportunity to reset wall combo for more damage. For re-wall you got 6K, 3B, 4K~B, DGF b into 3B. It seems like a decent amount of options if mixed-up properly.
 
6(A) can be in the combo - 6A could potentially reset it.. but I don't know if the risk/reward is worth it because you'd be giving up a lot of guaranteed damage. I guess it depends on how confident you are in getting another wall splat. Personally, I don't land them enough so when I get one I take the full combo
 
Oh while we're on the subject of post DNK...

It's also worth mentioning how much each of these you sacrifice damage-wise:

214A, DNK, 3B: 63 damage combo (3B does 13 dmg).
CH 66B, DNK, 3B: 59 damage combo (3B does 7 dmg).
3B, a:B+K, DNK, 2K: 73 damage combo (2K does 6 dmg).

Also, 9B+K is force block. If you hit them getting up it is good tech trap territory (CE, delayed 3B, iFC3K, 4B). Unsafe (Pyrrha will get stab punish on block), but breaks quickly. You've also got your DGF transition gimmicks and the delay-able 2nd K.
 
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