Alucard
Premium Member
I try not to pay that much attention to this, but it is insanely dumb to see how toxic people are about this, especially when you know a for sure that their fans wouldn't have done this if Amy and Cass weren't in the SP... :/
Soulcalibur VI DLC Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Nyte
- Start date
DanteSC3
[14] Master
I still think Hwang should have made it in over Cassandra, but I'm not about to attack someone over it.
Alucard
Premium Member
The things that scare me a bit is that I know people are gonna rage at Okubo when he actually decide to officially announce Cass and Amy, and I really hope he doesn't take those comments too seriously, because that could influence the fate of Cass and Amy and maybe limit their chance of coming back in a next installment or kinda makes so they are rushed in this one... :/
AngelStepStyle
[05] Battler
I hope not. I don't want to see my Cassie being omitted thanks to a bunch of Sophitia fanboys/fangirls who love to rage and make terrible comments about her. It makes me sick seeing how toxic the Soul series community can be. By the way, I hope she got some new tools added in her arsenal. I just love her moveset. =3
PiperAtDawn
[09] Warrior
I don't think that's going to happen. In fact, and I mean this with no offense, their inclusion was likely based not only on the popularity poll but also on the amount of fans screaming on every tweet about SCVI for Cassandra and Amy to be included (and a lot were not polite about it, I might add). Some people raising a fit over their inclusion is to be expected, and it's up to them to not be foolish about this as these DLC plans are probably finalized at this point.
Me, I'm fine with Cassandra being in as I think she stands out from Sophitia and I prefer her fighting style, though I don't really care for her personality. Amy on the other hand is a character I really dislike for a multitude of reasons (I only really like her fighting style and some of her fashion), but I'm not going to pitch a fit over her inclusion. I'd rather have seen Setsuka (though I don't condone the people who were being vicious about demanding her in and over her being omitted), Hwang, Hilde, or most of all two new characters, but hey, at least the pass is all female, so more creation parts and a better male-to-female roster ration!
Me, I'm fine with Cassandra being in as I think she stands out from Sophitia and I prefer her fighting style, though I don't really care for her personality. Amy on the other hand is a character I really dislike for a multitude of reasons (I only really like her fighting style and some of her fashion), but I'm not going to pitch a fit over her inclusion. I'd rather have seen Setsuka (though I don't condone the people who were being vicious about demanding her in and over her being omitted), Hwang, Hilde, or most of all two new characters, but hey, at least the pass is all female, so more creation parts and a better male-to-female roster ration!
Frayhua
[14] Master
Cassie will always be worst than Sophitia. Sophitia is fine even in the latest patch.
Ciruxxx83
[05] Battler
I'm a little dissapointed they chise to include 2 styles already represented in the game as DLC. I know Cass and Amy both play differently than their counterparts, (and I've played SC since the very beggining, over 2 decades ago), but c'mon, there are plenty of other characters that could add variety to the game (like Hwang, Hilde, dual-axe Lizzy, Setsuka). It just feels like they wanna please all the whiners out there, and the game, which already has a limited roster, suffers from this. What good is to add 2 DLC chars whose styles are already represented by their "original" owners? Beats me. I'd love to see Hilde back, she was not one of my mains by far, but her style was something new and fresh, much like Groh's is now. And please please please don't give me the "Maybe they'll make Amy use Viola's style, since they are the same person" THEY ARE NOT. PERIOD.
REPROBEAN_CHILD
[14] Master
Cassandra and Amy DO NOT play like Sophitia and Raphael AT ALL. Similar weapons =/= same fighting style. Why people don't get this is maddening at this point
Jeromeice
[10] Knight
Please , not again ..
Anyway , glad to see that Cassy will be back ! It was about time.
Frayhua
[14] Master
It was about time that the Rest of the Alexandras should be terrible characters, except for Sophitia.
Rusted Blade
[14] Master
Honestly Ciruxxx, it feels like you acknowledged the basic reality of the situation with regard to Cassie and Amy's styles in one breath, and then went on to completely ignore the basic premise of that very same concession with your immediately following statements. Now with regard to Cassie and Sophitia, I think there's an argument to be made that they are somewhat reduplicative (much as I am still thrilled to see Cassie return), as they share a similar speed, range, damage output, capacity for zone control, and just a lot of moves that flow one from another in a similar fashion. But they've been diverging ever since SCII and there's no reason they can't continue to do so here--as, indeed, the devs very successfully accomplished with Nightmare and Siegfried, who have never been more distinct from one-another than they are now. Amy, on the other hand, has never had anything other than some superficial similarity to Raphael, and even those similarities are mostly reserved to her weapon, as of SCIV. Last we saw her, she had all of two niche-context moves in common with Rapha (mostly as an allusion to the idea that Raphael was her teacher rather than laziness in the devs or a lack of desire to distinguish her), and her play style as a whole has an entirely different flow, pacing, and tactical considerations. She really plays like Raphael no more so than much of the current roster, honestly. So the only argument for omitting her over another classic character is that the visual style (that is, the basic selection of weapons) ought to be kept varied across the roster, and while there is something to be said for that, I just don't think that's a substantial reason in itself to keep such a beloved style out--not when, as regards the actual gameplay mechanics, she is quite unique.
However, I agree with numerous of your other points. We definitely need one of the dao wielders before the classic Soul Calibur vibe is complete. Luckily, I think we are all but certain to get a second season pass in which either Hwang or Yun-seong will feature, and I'd bet a hybrid Lizzardman/Aeon style is also likely at that time (see the roster speculation thread for why I believe a second season is increasingly likely and why these two selections are likely to feature in it). Likewise, I agree that both Setsuka and Hilde bring unique play styles that would be great counterpoints within the current roster, but for various thematic, marketing, production, and pragmatic reasons, I think they are both unlikely unless there were to be three DLC seasons, something that seems like a bit of a pipe dream, though I will continue to hold out hope as long as possible. Lastly, I also believe it absolute fanboy delusion to think Amy would return only to fight with Viola's style. I'm not going to diverge into the twenty-point explanation here for why this is obviously not going to happen, except to say that it should be pretty plain why this would be an aesthetic, stylistic, narrative, and practical blunder to even consider (and I say this as someone who thought that Viola's style was probably the highlight addition to the roster in V, which was the game in the franchise that left me most underwhelmed, though it has its good points).
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Alucard
Premium Member
I don't know about that to be honest, people were pretty vocal about Amy Cass but that was also the case for Setsuka, Lizardman and Hilde, Hwang/Yun on the other hand... poor guys i guess :/
I did say i wanted Amy in like one tweet and got a bunch of likes for that, but Cass and Setsuka fans were there in every Okubos post xD
And now there is this now:
Just how toxic can you even be xD
Let's get serious a sec, you know this wouldn't have happened if the remaining 2 DLC were like Rock and Hwang or Setsuka Hilde or any of them actually, Amy's fans wouldn't have done something like that and that's what makes me kinda sad to see that this community is this toxic and self centered that they just can't be happy for others getting their main back...
It already blew up and I'm only giving it more exposure, but I don't care at this point, just hope Okubo and his team don't give a damn about what any those kind of people say in the future.
AMillionHP
[13] Hero
In most cases i dont think its as if people dont understand that but they still believe a completely different weapon should take priority. I actually like Amy but i gotta say, her getting in first before any Dao user.... hmmm not a fan of that.
And i'll also say there is a difference between sword/board and rapier. In other words it kind means Cassie gets a pass while Amy doesnt. Yeah, i get that isnt going to sound good to Amy fans but i do think most people would agree with the popularity of sword/board is pretty wide spread in many games.
Some of us place emphasis on character and some on weapons or some varying degree of both in between that.
Jeromeice
[10] Knight
Keep your salty feelings for you.
Rusted Blade
[14] Master
Alucard, I have to agree on quite a few points there, but the one I most feel the need to second is the sentiment that the team ought to feel comfortable ignoring that noise and knowing that the bulk of their fans are supportive of their design choices. I was bummed when Amy did not make the cut for the main game, but I understood what they were trying to do with the story here and mostly rebuild from the beginning(ish) of the narrative arc and that she would be a likely DLC candidate at some point. So her being here now neither feels like an undue decision nor a slight to any other character or their fanbase; the new format has preferred certain characters to others and now it's Amy's turn. Granted, I have a little bias as Amy is an anchor point to the series for me since SCIII:AE, but I managed to keep perspective when her fate was unknown, even after that most tragic of decisions to omit her and my other main since SCII, Talim, from SCV.
Luckily, I think Okubo and team mostly have decided the proceed on their own vision for their choices here, with the caveat that most of the main post-SE cast were probably never even considered for being cut. Generally speaking, the devs seem to be taking popularity into account, but there's obviously a formula here for the schedule of the releases, as well as some practical business decisions, constraining things. I personally think that this is looking to be a significantly larger game in a couple of years time if we as fans reward the model by being willing to buy a little more DLC (I, personally can
I'll bet you that the only reason we haven't seen either of the dao characters is that we have an upcoming announcement for an all-male DLC package, much as this one is looking to be all-female. I bet that announcement was planned for some point towards the end of (or just after) the final content releases for season 1, which makes the code revelation (assuming it wasn't cleverly planted) a little bit of a problem that I hope will not effect sales.
As to your sword/board argument, it's an interesting angle, not without merit. I mean, there have been six sword and shield wielders across the franchise (if you count Abelia/Gladiator bonus style in SCIII), and only two western duelist/rapier styles. But I believe, all of the many factors considered, both were ripe for inclusion and this is a great revelation (not least because it seems to add yet more cause to be cautiously optimistic about a second season pass). Again, I have some bias: I'm getting my main back and a good old standby who is my favourite sword-and-shield iteration, having even more swag than her big sister. There's just something so brutally efficient looking about Cas's variation on that form, especially when compared against Sophitia. But I think these are objectively reasonable choices, regardless.
Speaking to the discussion about the needless toxicity generally, I generally agree with the observations about these trends, though I tend not to think of these sorts of complaints/condemnations in terms of being "toxic"; I mean, afterall, at the end of the day, the stakes here are pretty insignificant, this still being a video game and all (even if it is the franchise I have probably sunk the most time into, with thousands of hours across more than two decades now). I tend to say "silly" and "immature". "Petty" I think sums it up about as well as can be done in a word. It's also irrational: this isn't a zero-sum game and you can afford to not be rabidly hostile to one choice as the only means of promoting your own preference. The most effective strategy here (especially now that we have an open-ended roster that only ends once it stops being profitable or practical ) is to advocate for your favourite choice on its own merits, rather than trying to tear down the alternatives.
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PiperAtDawn
[09] Warrior
I don't know, I could see people pitching a fit over Rock or Lizardman over being similar to Astaroth and Sophitia respectively (if the Lizardman moveset in game is any indication for the latter) in addition to not being all that popular, at least compared to Cass and Amy. I will agree that Setsuka and Hilde wouldn't get this much hate, but that's because they have unique weapons and movesets (not that Cass and Amy don't have unique movesets, but the superficial weapon resemblance does tend to set off the clone accusations).
I wouldn't worry about these people throwing a tantrum about Amy's inclusion though. She's all but officially confirmed at this point and I think Okubo and his team can see she has just as many fans if not more than the people that hate her. I know her "hope only brings disappointment" quote is popular to throw around here, but I do think they won't botch her DLC or not consider her for SCVII because of fan backlash. :)
RaphMcSorel
[10] Knight
The backlash has been pretty depressing. I've never seen a community attack a segment of their own fanbase like this before (granted, I don't hang around fandoms very often). I hope that the devs see this toxic behavior for what it is, and don't concede to it.
I'm among the people that hate Lucky Chloe from Tekken, but I'm glad the devs stuck to their guns and kept her in the game. I would never attack fans of that character, or start a campaign for the devs to remove her.
Amy and Cassandra are unique, popular characters, and don't deserve to be cut just because a segment of the fandom hates them.
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Ciruxxx83
[05] Battler
No no no, that's precisely what I didn't say! I said I KNOW they do NOT play anything like their counterparts, but their styles/weapons are already represented in-game. I'm not gonna lash out against those chars or their fans at all, just saying it'd be more varied IF we got completely different weapons/styles next, instead of adding another rapier and another sword and board. Not saying "I think they're terrible chars or anything like that, in fact I did enjoy them a lot in past iterations, BUT BUT BUT, maybe a dao or a sword/spear would feel more like the DLC is adding diversity to the game. Just that.
RaphMcSorel
[10] Knight
I understand your perspective, and while I disagree, you're being respectful. There's a big difference between a fair disagreement, and being rude to other fans or starting a social media campaign to remove a character.
Rusted Blade
[14] Master
I think a little of the confusion over the strength of your assertion in your first post comes down to a matter of nomenclature: generally when one refers to a "style" in the context of the Soul Calibur roster, one is referencing the continuity of a character's moveset. So Maxi's style, or Siegfried's style is the general moveset for that character, fluctuating in the specifics from game to game but representing one continuity. But by comaprison, Taki and Natsu, despite their strong similarities, are not the same "style" in the way that term is generally applied. The way you have been using "style" is more abstract (a general aesthetic niche as typified by a specific type of weapon, even if there are no shared moves or mechanics) and varies from what people usually parse the meaning to be in the context of discussion here and pertaining to Soul Calibur generally. so it implied a bit of meaning beyond what you intended, I think.