Soulcalibur VI DLC Discussion Thread

[Rusted Blade]

@Rusted Blade Yeah, Leixia is Xianghua’s daughter through the general that she marries, while Xiba is her illegitimate son through Kilik.

Oh, no shit? No wonder Xianghua went into hiding and Kilik started wearing a mask and stopped using the staff; if Xiba were my kid, I'd probably have a similar reaction.

The word retcon has been on like the last three pages, and I’m kinda sick of seeing it, as SoulCalibur VI is anything but a retcon. This isn’t a new timeline, either, and whoever came up with that concept and put it all over the wiki bugs the hell out of me too. It’s the same timeline with the same events, just told again in greater detail. The characters who came in SoulCalibur II/III had written stories in bios and extra materials, and coincided with known history. SoulCalibur VI presented the stage to tell all the stories at once, but they didn’t change any key events in the story thus far.

The only one that can be argued is Zasalamel, and even then, for all we know, the end result will still be the same, since it’s not an uncommon time travel plot that says you can’t change the past, even if the future Zasalamel sent a message to this Zasalamel, his efforts may be futile. All signs point to SoulCalibur II and beyond still transpiring the same, since Siegfried hasn’t escaped fully from Nightmare, Abyss and Algol have been teased, and Raphael is poised to become Nightmare as Dumas.

This is why I can’t believe Algol will show up as Star, because we’re not at his part of the story, and him awakening early doesn’t make any sense, why this would happen, except to baffle Zasalamel even further. It just doesn’t fit the narrative, which is important, no matter how you slice it.

Well, I get the point your going at, and yeah, maybe it's more accurate over-all to call it a re-telling. But to some degree it's a matter of semantics, and I'd say it's still reasonable to call it a retcon. Certain minor events definitely take place at an earlier or later point than they did in the original narrative, if nothing else. But that little caveat aside, I agree with the main thrust of your observation here, especially after reading TresDias' story summarization recently: things are moving pretty remarkably in lock-step overall, and this is, at the very least, much less of a retcon than might have been expected when they first announced that VI would reboot the series.

 

[DanteSC3]

Yeah, I have plenty of posts in that thread too, but @TresDias kinda did put me to shame, quoting things directly and citing references, while I was just recounting things from memory.

It’s just so obvious to me, that I don’t understand how anyone truly believes that we are in a new timeline or are changing the story in any meaningful capacity.

Some people just really hate SoulCalibur V and don’t ever want to get back there, while others feel that if they don’t rush into it and/or establish it properly, that it’s not a completely lost cause. I find myself in the latter group, and I believe if they continue giving the story focus as in SoulCalibur VI, they can definitely pull it off.

But baby steps, don’t cram it all in this game. SoulCalibur VII can cover SoulCalibur II-IV, and then SoulCalibur VIII can actually cover the seventeen years with sufficient details and actually explain who the new characters are and why you should care about them, instead of having to rely on an art book to fill in the gaps, as was the case in SoulCalibur V. Plus actually flesh out and do stories for each character, not just Patroklos and Pyrrha, like Soul Chronicle.

 

[Rusted Blade]

Yeah, I have plenty of posts in that thread too, but @TresDias kinda did put me to shame, quoting things directly and citing references, while I was just recounting things from memory.

It’s just so obvious to me, that I don’t understand how anyone truly believes that we are in a new timeline or are changing the story in any meaningful capacity.

Some people just really hate SoulCalibur V and don’t ever want to get back there, while others feel that if they don’t rush into it and/or establish it properly, that it’s not a completely lost cause. I find myself in the latter group, and I believe if they continue giving the story focus as in SoulCalibur VI, they can definitely pull it off.

But baby steps, don’t cram it all in this game. SoulCalibur VII can cover SoulCalibur II-IV, and then SoulCalibur VIII can actually cover the seventeen years with sufficient details and actually explain who the new characters are and why you should care about them, instead of having to rely on an art book to fill in the gaps, as was the case in SoulCalibur V. Plus actually flesh out and do stories for each character, not just Patroklos and Pyrrha, like Soul Chronicle.

Well, you have to remember, most people fall into one of several categories with regard to the plot: 1) they never played the earlier games, 2) they did play them but haven't played some of them in decades or longer, 3) they have played the older games and still go back to play them on rare occasion, but they never committed most of the lore to memory because they found it all so goofy, unremarkable, inconconsistent and difficult to take seriously as a continuity that most of it left there mind shortly after they heard/read the details. That last one is me; if you had asked me just after I finished all of the Soul Chronicles if they had heavily retconned the story, I probably would have said, "I dunno--I think so? But it's mostly faithful in the broad strokes." It wasn't until I saw that thread that I realized how closely they have actually hewn to the original story. I'm guessing relatively few players have committed all of those story details to memory and gone back to check on them with regularity to the degree that TD, yourself and others in that thread have.

So "obvious" is a relative term, is what I'm saying. :) I've put thousands of hours in to some SC games for which I never even bothered to take twenty minutes to read all of the bios! I tried to have some interest, but around SCIII the cornball factor had just hit irretrievable levels. And there were always zero stakes since, until SCIV/SCV, nobody ever suffered an actual permanent death, no matter how many titanic showdowns they had with their mortal enemies, and it was difficult to even know which events would stick as the basis for the next game's lore. It's hard to take a Soul Calibur death or plot development even as seriously as a comic equivalent! So I really couldn't care much less about whether they re-trod the same territory or not--though I found that detail that TD highlighted about Zas maybe being the only one not bound to repeat the story was kind of interesting; almost like a little meta narrative. Gameplay and roster selection is, and always will be, where my focus is.

But there is one thing about heading down the same path that occurs to me: SCV is kind of a terminal point for the narrative. The one good thing you can say about the story of SCV is that it gives a kind of resolution to the story, with Soul Edge and Soul Calibur removed from the world via (correct me if I am remembering any of this wrong) the "Soul Embrace". Given they drive all story elements in the series, this would seem to be the end to the evil sword drama. I guess they could always get free, but sheesh that would be anticlimactic. So if the plot is going to repeat itself in every detail, they had better take the scenic route as you suggest, because it's hard to imagine fans being happy with yet another reboot to repeat the story once more in three games. I suppose you could go in the opposite direction back into the past for a game's setting, but it presents you with a situation where you'd need to ditch almost the entire cast and that's no good either. Anyway, this is all a bit of a problem for the reboot, because SCVI definitely covers a lot of ground, even if it doesn't ultimately end up getting to Algol's re-introduction. They better be planning on making liberal use of that 17 year period for a couple of games.


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Spoiler

But since I have the ear (eyes?) of a story aficionado, perhaps you can help me with something I was thinking about earlier. Obviously with the events of SCVI, it's more clear than every how Raphael became Dumas and eventually the last version of Nightmare. But can you remind me of the story beats that suggest that Viola is Amy? Is it just the interactions between her and Nightmare in the interstitials for SCV, or is there more in the lore that I am forgetting? Maybe in those peripheral materials for the game? There's something very odd about Viola being Amy; both Amy and Raphael are clearly becoming malfested by SCIV (or maybe Raphael is just becoming malfested and Amy is just becoming more of a sociopath?), what with Raphael's vampiric characteristics, and yet Viola (if Amy) seems more like the Amy we know as a child in SCIII and SCVI: hardened, but not really evil.

Also (and related) where does Lost Swords fit into all of this? It seems to be happening contemporaneous with SCV from the stage selection and other details, but if so, does that crash the Amy=Viola theory, since Amy is present in LS and by that point has adopted some of SCIV Raphael's malfested characteristics, including the vampiric attacks? Does Lost Swords maybe take place in the 17 year gap between SCIV and SCV? Is it possible that even as Raphael descends into possession by Soul Edge, Amy is purified somehow and this relates to how she loses her memory as Viola? Regardless, I have to admit, disconnected as I am from taking this story very seriously on the whole, I have to admit, Raph's story is a little tragic. He was always more than a little bit of a douche, and yet he clearly has a father's love for Amy, and his drive to protect her plays a role in his downfall. I mean, it might actually be a meaninfgul story development if we get to see that he somehow rescues her/send her to her salvation, even as he loses his fight for his own soul.

I'll duplicate your ping of @TresDias, since they may have seen something in those novelizations they purchased.

 

[DanteSC3]

Well, I think you misunderstand SoulCalibur V being a terminal point. Not that I blame you, as you’ve explained your engagement level with the plot, but the Soul Embrace has occurred a few times in the history, to put the swords in check, but they eventually break free again, for one reason or another.

Spoiler: Soul Embrace lore

The first instance was in SoulCalibur II, after Raphael stabbed Soul Edge in the eye, Siegfried took the opportunity to break free from Nightmare’s control and fuse the swords. He has them both in his case he is carrying in the opening of SoulCalibur III. The Nightmare of SoulCalibur III that Zasalamel creates is using a faux Soul Edge, as the real one is bound to Soul Calibur. Zasalamel uses the Soul Embrace, taking it while Siegfried and Nightmare are fighting each other and distracted, to attempt to break his immortality curse, and turns into Abyss, which sets the swords free again, inadvertently. You can see the Soul Embrace in the background of Foresaken Sanctuary, as a bonus.

This leads to SoulCalibur IV, where Inferno makes his own body and is Nightmare without a host. It arguably happens again in the conclusion of this game, which you could have called a terminal point, as the story modes ended basically everyone’s personal quests, and Hilde’s ending ended up being canon, where Siegfried defeats Nightmare and doesn’t crystallize himself to atone, as Hilde honors him and absolves him of his sins. But Broken Destiny had a new weapon that was the Soul Embrace, both swords combined, so that may imply that was the state after the dust settled. But at some point in the time gap, they separated again, Siegfried kept Soul Calibur, and Raphael got his hands on Soul Edge, somehow.

So the Soul Embrace being formed again when Patroklos and Pyrrha stab Soul Calibur with Soul Edge, this is again just a temporary state, and they can easily break free again, by their own will or by some outside interference.

There was still more story to tell in SoulCalibur V, regardless, after Raphael regained consciousness and would search for Amy, likely aided by Z.W.E.I., and Viola would come between them. There was also the journey of Maxi, Xiba, Leixia, and Natsu, to find Kilik, to help Xiba reclaim the Kali-Yuga, but he just had it without any real explanation. Leixia had the Dvapara-Yuga, of course, since she got it from Xianghua, who was given it by Kilik before he departed to pursue the path of enlightenment. And then there’s everyone else, which is kind of anyone’s guess, really.

Spoiler: Viola lore

Viola being Amy is mostly helped by her bio information in New Legends of Project Soul, which explains her memory loss being caused by her crystal ball, and her place of birth is “a place of roses and lilies”, which certainly refers to France. Combine that with having Amy’s face, voice (both languages), interactions with Raphael/Nightmare (who are one in the same), etc., and it paints a picture that says Viola is either Amy or Amy’s twin or Amy’s clone. But the other cases are a bit of a stretch, so it’s really likely, considering the memory loss, that she’s just Amy.

Raphael left Amy behind in SoulCalibur IV when he sought Soul Calibur, and he was “killed”, so he never came back, leaving Amy to herself. Somewhere in the time gap, she presumably left to search for Raphael, obtained her crystal ball by some means, and started making a living as a fortune teller. Over time, she forgot about her old life altogether. Tragic, really.

And Raphael was none the wiser, because his body was taken prisoner by Soul Edge, though he retained a greater sense of self than Siegfried did, using his noble scheming ways to obtain souls than just massacring the countryside, the Inferno part of his mind blocked out his own past for the duration, so Amy wasn’t on his mind. But when he awakened after being freed, his mind jumped back to Amy and he would then search for her, though she had lost herself, so it would have been interesting indeed as to how that story would unfold, how it would be resolved, if at all.

Spoiler: Lost Swords relevance

I never played Lost Swords, so I don’t really know if it even counts as canon or not. I lean towards completely non-canon, because it raises entirely too many questions, otherwise. It’s a weird parallel universe where the SoulCalibur IV versions of Sophitia, Seong Mi-an, Amy, Cassandra, and maybe others coexist with SoulCalibur V characters, combined with being set in SoulCalibur V time/world, given the stages and existence of characters like Pyrrha, Mitsurugi, and Siegfried in their older appearances. Or it’s all Astral Chaos nonsense, which would be about on par with non-canon.

 

[ZionOAS]

The only one I’m really concerned about is Rock, since Astaroth literally assimilated a ton of his move set. Unless they’re giving Rock an all new move set, of course... I could also see them giving him the dual axes, since Aeon is likely going to be sword and shield once more. Aeon and Lizardman were both placed in the poll and both did “well” (well enough to be consider along with everyone else), so it could be a compromise to make both fan groups happy. Just keep the angel wings and fire breathing away, and flesh out the axes with more Native American flair.

I can envision Rock becoming more of a WWE wrestler with his Original axe/mace choices. Knocking people over with charging lariats then crushing them with his weapon. Full body pressing. People’s Elbow. Spine busters. Then just cleaving them in two.

 

[Rusted Blade]

Well, I think you misunderstand SoulCalibur V being a terminal point. Not that I blame you, as you’ve explained your engagement level with the plot, but the Soul Embrace has occurred a few times in the history, to put the swords in check, but they eventually break free again, for one reason or another.

Spoiler: Soul Embrace lore

The first instance was in SoulCalibur II, after Raphael stabbed Soul Edge in the eye, Siegfried took the opportunity to break free from Nightmare’s control and fuse the swords. He has them both in his case he is carrying in the opening of SoulCalibur III. The Nightmare of SoulCalibur III that Zasalamel creates is using a faux Soul Edge, as the real one is bound to Soul Calibur. Zasalamel uses the Soul Embrace, taking it while Siegfried and Nightmare are fighting each other and distracted, to attempt to break his immortality curse, and turns into Abyss, which sets the swords free again, inadvertently. You can see the Soul Embrace in the background of Foresaken Sanctuary, as a bonus.

This leads to SoulCalibur IV, where Inferno makes his own body and is Nightmare without a host. It arguably happens again in the conclusion of this game, which you could have called a terminal point, as the story modes ended basically everyone’s personal quests, and Hilde’s ending ended up being canon, where Siegfried defeats Nightmare and doesn’t crystallize himself to atone, as Hilde honors him and absolves him of his sins. But Broken Destiny had a new weapon that was the Soul Embrace, both swords combined, so that may imply that was the state after the dust settled. But at some point in the time gap, they separated again, Siegfried kept Soul Calibur, and Raphael got his hands on Soul Edge, somehow.

So the Soul Embrace being formed again when Patroklos and Pyrrha stab Soul Calibur with Soul Edge, this is again just a temporary state, and they can easily break free again, by their own will or by some outside interference.

There was still more story to tell in SoulCalibur V, regardless, after Raphael regained consciousness and would search for Amy, likely aided by Z.W.E.I., and Viola would come between them. There was also the journey of Maxi, Xiba, Leixia, and Natsu, to find Kilik, to help Xiba reclaim the Kali-Yuga, but he just had it without any real explanation. Leixia had the Krita-Yuga, of course, since she got it from Xianghua, who was given it by Kilik before he departed to pursue the path of enlightenment. And then there’s everyone else, which is kind of anyone’s guess, really.

Spoiler: Viola lore

Viola being Amy is mostly helped by her bio information in New Legends of Project Soul, which explains her memory loss being caused by her crystal ball, and her place of birth is “a place of roses and lilies”, which certainly refers to France. Combine that with having Amy’s face, voice (both languages), interactions with Raphael/Nightmare (who are one in the same), etc., and it paints a picture that says Viola is either Amy or Amy’s twin or Amy’s clone. But the other cases are a bit of a stretch, so it’s really likely, considering the memory loss, that she’s just Amy.

Raphael left Amy behind in SoulCalibur IV when he sought Soul Calibur, and he was “killed”, so he never came back, leaving Amy to herself. Somewhere in the time gap, she presumably left to search for Raphael, obtained her crystal ball by some means, and started making a living as a fortune teller. Over time, she forgot about her old life altogether. Tragic, really.

And Raphael was none the wiser, because his body was taken prisoner by Soul Edge, though he retained a greater sense of self than Siegfried did, using his noble scheming ways to obtain souls than just massacring the countryside, the Inferno part of his mind blocked out his own past for the duration, so Amy wasn’t on his mind. But when he awakened after being freed, his mind jumped back to Amy and he would then search for her, though she had lost herself, so it would have been interesting indeed as to how that story would unfold, how it would be resolved, if at all.

Spoiler: Lost Swords relevance

I never played Lost Swords, so I don’t really know if it even counts as canon or not. I lean towards completely non-canon, because it raises entirely too many questions, otherwise. It’s a weird parallel universe where the SoulCalibur IV versions of Sophitia, Seong Mi-an, Amy, Cassandra, and maybe others coexist with SoulCalibur V characters, combined with being set in SoulCalibur V time/world, given the stages and existence of characters like Pyrrha, Mitsurugi, and Siegfried in their older appearances. Or it’s all Astral Chaos nonsense, which would be about on par with non-canon.

I see, so there's not really much in the lore of the game itself aside from Viola's rose fixation with her garb and those vague battle entry comments when she faces Raphael and Nightmare? All things considered, not much to go on. I was asking because I'm trying to puzzle out when Viola might make a re-entry into the series. It's definetly not season two of VI's DLC, no matter how much people want to believe that can happen, and I'd be deeply surprised if it could happen in VI at all, but presumably at some point they will get back around to the SCV generation. I think Viola's design was suggestive of her being Amy, but if that's the extent of the in-game tie-ins, the devs could probably walk that back and make them two separate characters in a future game without too much trouble. Anyway, thanks for the info!

As to SCV being the terminal point or not--maybe the Soul Embrace is a phrase that has been used to describe the two swords being intertwined before (I do recall that now that you mention it), but wasn't there some kind of suggestion at the end of V that the two had been sealed away from the world entirely? Maybe I'm remembering the details wrong, but I recall a tone of finality to the end of the core story there. Am I building it up in my memory?

Edit: Yeah, here, see, this is what I was recalling: there is a fade-out that leaves some ambiguity, but it sure as hell looks as if both Soul Edge and Soul Calibur disappear into the Astral Chaos, and all three leave the world in peace at last, sealed away once and for all. Neither sword is present when the camera returns to Pyrrha and Patrokolos. Of course, Pyrrha's arm is still malfested, so... eh, who knows. See here I am trying to make sense of (and expecting consistency out of) a Soul Calibur story, which clearly I know better than to do. ;) On a side note, I forgot that SCV actually has some great music that breaks the mold of the series a little.

 

[DanteSC3]

@Rusted Blade Yeah, Viola is practically nonexistent in the story of SoulCalibur V, since Z.W.E.I. leaves her behind (people have a habit of doing that...) and goes off to fight Nightmare, and we don't see her again, because the story just ends after Patroklos and Pyrrha make the Soul Embrace. The thing is, though, Z.W.E.I. is thrown off the same cliff as Nightmare when defeated, so that's what leads the likelihood that Z.W.E.I. and Raphael would meet up, come to blows, unite to help each other, whatever they'd end up doing, they would be together when they came to. Whether Viola stayed at the Schwarzwind camp or left to find out why Z.W.E.I. never came back, that's an unknown.

Nightmare, Raphael, Amy, Viola, and Z.W.E.I. are all closely linked to each other, though, so I can't imagine a scenario that they'd come up with to introduce Viola any sooner that would work, with all of these pieces in play. Raphael (as Graf Dumas) put Z.W.E.I. (well, he wasn't Z.W.E.I. yet, but we don't know who Z.W.E.I. is really, either) to death, which is what awoke E.I.N. and Z.W.E.I. met up with Viola and joined Schwarzwind after his transformation. Raphael (as Graf Dumas) was still in Nightmare's clutches for this part, so Amy was out of focus, but she was Viola already, too, and she didn't make the transition until after SoulCalibur IV, so... they might could get away with it in SoulCalibur VII, as DLC, perhaps, to tease/set up SoulCalibur VIII, assuming my scenarios I listed previously what stories these games would tell. We might even get Z.W.E.I. before he became Z.W.E.I. as a tag-along.

About that ending cutscene, I see what you're getting at, that the Soul Embrace got sucked into the Astral Chaos when they were sealed away, but I still don't think that holds any permanence. Remember that Edge Master (and Cassandra [and Night Terror]) resides within the Astral Chaos at this point in time, too, and Edge Master, at least, has the ability to use the Astral Chaos to manipulate time, and who knows what else, so something might happen there. The other possibility, of course, is that Cassandra breaks free to return to the real world, and brings back one or both of the swords by accident, as they would slip out when she does. There's definitely ways that there would be more conflict with the swords.

 

[Rusted Blade]

@Rusted Blade Yeah, Viola is practically nonexistent in the story of SoulCalibur V, since Z.W.E.I. leaves her behind (people have a habit of doing that...) and goes off to fight Nightmare, and we don't see her again, because the story just ends after Patroklos and Pyrrha make the Soul Embrace. The thing is, though, Z.W.E.I. is thrown off the same cliff as Nightmare when defeated, so that's what leads the likelihood that Z.W.E.I. and Raphael would meet up, come to blows, unite to help each other, whatever they'd end up doing, they would be together when they came to. Whether Viola stayed at the Schwarzwind camp or left to find out why Z.W.E.I. never came back, that's an unknown.

Nightmare, Raphael, Amy, Viola, and Z.W.E.I. are all closely linked to each other, though, so I can't imagine a scenario that they'd come up with to introduce Viola any sooner that would work, with all of these pieces in play. Raphael (as Graf Dumas) put Z.W.E.I. (well, he wasn't Z.W.E.I. yet, but we don't know who Z.W.E.I. is really, either) to death, which is what awoke E.I.N. and Z.W.E.I. met up with Viola and joined Schwarzwind after his transformation. Raphael (as Graf Dumas) was still in Nightmare's clutches for this part, so Amy was out of focus, but she was Viola already, too, and she didn't make the transition until after SoulCalibur IV, so... they might could get away with it in SoulCalibur VII, as DLC, perhaps, to tease/set up SoulCalibur VIII, assuming my scenarios I listed previously what stories these games would tell. We might even get Z.W.E.I. before he became Z.W.E.I. as a tag-along.

About that ending cutscene, I see what you're getting at, that the Soul Embrace got sucked into the Astral Chaos when they were sealed away, but I still don't think that holds any permanence. Remember that Edge Master (and Cassandra [and Night Terror]) resides within the Astral Chaos at this point in time, too, and Edge Master, at least, has the ability to use the Astral Chaos to manipulate time, and who knows what else, so something might happen there. The other possibility, of course, is that Cassandra breaks free to return to the real world, and brings back one or both of the swords by accident, as they would slip out when she does. There's definitely ways that there would be more conflict with the swords.

Woah, wait, what the hell is Cassie doing in the AC?

Uh, but maybe we should take this to one of the story forum threads. This all connects with DLC expectations, of course, but we are getting a bit into the weeds.

 

[DanteSC3]

Woah, wait, what the hell is Cassie doing in the AC?

She canonically lost to Soul Edge corrupted Sophitia in SoulCalibur IV, and when she awoke, she got sucked into the Astral Chaos.

Spoiler: New Legends of Project Soul, of course

 

[StarDragon]

Well, no--perhaps I was not as clear about this in my last response as I intended to be: I don't think the restoration of the original cast is necessarily the "better" option; I'd be just as happy to see Hilde in that season pass rather than Li Long or Yun-seong or whoever, if that's what happens. I'm just happy to see that the plans for filling out the roster are more extensive than previously was confirmed

Fair enough, however, as someone who has been out of the loop when it comes to SC series (played Soul Blade, SCIII in PS2 and SCIV:BD before taking a 5 years long break from fighting games and came back mainly after seeing SCVI on PC) i would really like to know where are those plans for fulfilling the roster been mentioned, if possible.

Meh, that hasn't kept them from adding characters who use the same weapons in literally every single entry in the franchise nearly the beginning. It isn't stopping them from making both of the remaining DLC characters in season one both characters who have similar weapons to others already in the game.

Sure! However i guess i'm mostly biased against having both, Hwang and Yun in the same Season Pass when someone else could take that spot for the sake of variety. Hell, if it was about bringing back old styles i'd personally love to see some minor characters like Valeria (Grieve Edge), Miser (Katana and Shuriken), Hualin (Rod), etc. with completed and balanced versions of their unique movesets being mixed with old characters in a single SP rather than 2 users of the same weapon bundled in it even if they are different (Hell, Valeria and Grieve Edge would make any season pass an instant buy for me). But as you pointed, that's just my opinion, my personal bias since that's what I'd like to see.

Hey, on a side note, do you take your name from Lunar: Eternal Blue?

Not really, I liked the game but to be honest, i didn't remember much about it until now that you mention it and suddenly felt an urge to download it and play it again. Thanks for it!

The word retcon has been on like the last three pages, and I’m kinda sick of seeing it, as SoulCalibur VI is anything but a retcon. This isn’t a new timeline, either, and whoever came up with that concept and put it all over the wiki bugs the hell out of me too. It’s the same timeline with the same events, just told again in greater detail. The characters who came in SoulCalibur II/III had written stories in bios and extra materials, and coincided with known history. SoulCalibur VI presented the stage to tell all the stories at once, but they didn’t change any key events in the story thus far.

This is why I can’t believe Algol will show up as Star, because we’re not at his part of the story, and him awakening early doesn’t make any sense, why this would happen, except to baffle Zasalamel even further. It just doesn’t fit the narrative, which is important, no matter how you slice it.

Couldn't PS simply extend the timeline covered by SCVI to make some characters of SCIV (or even SCV depending on how far they want to go) fit in SCVI without making it a retcon?. Asking mainly out of curiosity since i don't see anything preventing them from doing it, assuming they wanted to make such change in order to expand their possible additions to SCVI's roster.

 

[DanteSC3]

Couldn't PS simply extend the timeline covered by SCVI to make some characters of SCIV (or even SCV depending on how far they want to go) fit in SCVI without making it a retcon?. Asking mainly out of curiosity since i don't see anything preventing them from doing it, assuming they wanted to make such change in order to expand their possible additions to SCVI's roster.

They could, technically, but it comes with a new set of issues if they did, that being the main story context. Algol only awakens because of the power clash between Siegfried and the false Nightmare, along with the Soul Embrace being utilized by Zasalamel, breaking the swords apart and releasing their energies, all of that chaos, which doesn't happen until SoulCalibur III. SoulCalibur VI's main story only covers the end of SoulBlade and into SoulCalibur I, and the side stories cover the events leading up to but not starting SoulCalibur II.

So in that we don't have story coverage for SoulCalibur II's main events, where Siegfried falls victim to Nightmare once more, is confronted by the heroes again, but this time, Raphael intervenes and has a moment of opportunity to stab Soul Edge's eye, freeing Siegfried, allowing the Soul Embrace to be created, which would in turn interest Zasalamel, cause him to make the reanimated Nightmare to lure Siegfried out and distract him, allowing him access to the Soul Embrace...

Basically, I'm saying that Algol's inclusion in SoulCalibur VI would necessitate a time skip, and the last time they did that, we got SoulCalibur V.

 

[Klimat]

I don't presume that the SE-SCIII cast is going to be reconstituted because that is the "superior" option. I presume it based on what the devs have said about the product they are constructing at every turn and everything we've seen about that product to date:

1. Again, all characters thus far have come from those four games.
2. There are exactly six main roster characters from those games who have yet to be included.
3. The team is now indicating (albeit in a sly and indirect manner) that they will be releasing exactly six characters in the upcoming DLC set.
4. The codenames for those six characters align more or less perfectly with the six remaining SE-SCIII characters.

You keep telling Project Soul said something supporting your idea that all future SC6 DLC characters will be drawn from SE-SC3 rosters, but you never give any specific quotes and I myself can't recall any of those existing at all. On the contrary, during Kayane's interviev at Gamescom 2018 Okubo pretty much spelled out SC4 and even SC5 characters were a fair game for DLCs:

M.O.: We don’t know if we have more guest characters yet. It’s all in talks right now. Still, it’s possible that within the Season Pass we’ll have characters from IV or V. They might not fit the same time frame from the game’s story, but it’s possible.

Also I don't really get it why you are so focused on SE to begin with. So far if we look at SC6 roster, there is exactly zero SE characters there who were not in SC1. No character that started in SE got into SC6 because of SE, they all did thanks to SC1. SE has been hand waved in SC6 intro cinematic and never brought back again at any point, also only the most important events were recapped (Sophitia & Taki vs Cervantes, Siegfried becoming Nightmare and the Evil Seed), everything else got cut as excessive irrelevant information. SE is irrelevant.

 

[Rusted Blade]

She canonically lost to Soul Edge corrupted Sophitia in SoulCalibur IV, and when she awoke, she got sucked into the Astral Chaos.

Eh, but are later games always consistent with any story beats established in these kinds of companion books? That's an awfully big leap, from Sophitia beats Cassie in a story mode to Cassie being stuck in the astral chaos as a consequence. And even if that is considered "cannon" wouldn't she be dead after 17 years if she hadn't found a way out? I don't know. I guess you can always find an excuse for why the evil swords find their way back to cause more trouble. I mean, I can hardly fault your willingness to assume so when every game in the series begins in just such a fashion. I guess I just want to believe that the series can take its own storytelling seriously for once. Soul Calibur V is my least favourite game in the franchise, but it did at least attempt to elevate the stakes in the story a little. People actually died and moved on with their lives between IV and V, rather than repeating the same tired story. I guess I just prefer to think that the imagery/sentiments presented in that final scene represent something more than the just more tissue paper narrative, shredded for convenience to set up another entry.

Sure! However i guess i'm mostly biased against having both, Hwang and Yun in the same Season Pass when someone else could take that spot for the sake of variety. Hell, if it was about bringing back old styles i'd personally love to see some minor characters like Valeria (Grieve Edge), Miser (Katana and Shuriken), Hualin (Rod), etc. with completed and balanced versions of their unique movesets being mixed with old characters in a single SP rather than 2 users of the same weapon bundled in it even if they are different (Hell, Valeria and Grieve Edge would make any season pass an instant buy for me). But as you pointed, that's just my opinion, my personal bias since that's what I'd like to see.

Yes indeed, I'm really gonna become known as a broken record if I keep this up, but, in a perfect world, season passes five and six would be the Soul Calibur III bonus characters, updated and fleshed out. Maybe leave out the wave sword; you gotta draw the line somewhere. :D

Here, for you, as a fan of the grieve edge: an homage from Monty Oum (one of a number of nods to Soul Calibur in his unfortunately too short body of work as a filmaker), and Dennis To working a similar weapon in live action.

On the contrary, during Kayane's interviev at Gamescom 2018 Okubo pretty much spelled out SC4 and even SC5 characters were a fair game for DLCs

To be perectly honest, I had forgotten that Okubo himself said that. I had recalled it being a junior member of the design team. Even so, devs leaving the door open rather than boxing themselves into a corner for no practical gain is pretty par for the course. Refusing to rule it out when directly quuried about the possibility is not the same thing as giving any indication whatsoever that they plan to do anything along these lines. Since that interview, I've seen not a whit of evidence indicating any SCIV or SCV character is being considered (or has been considered at any point) as DLC content. What they have said repeatedly is that the game is meant to be a retelling primarily of the events originally covered in SCI. Clearly events have surpassed that canvas a little bit in the final product, but still to this date, no character has been added, announced, or expressly hinted at who comes from an entry later than SCIII.

Also I don't really get it why you are so focused on SE to begin with.

I'm not. My observation is merely that no character has yet been added or even hinted at for SCVI who originated in a title after SCIII in the chronology. When I make reference to the fact that all characters added to date in SCVI originated in one of the first four games, that is all I mean.

Do remember though that Rock, Li Long, and Hwang all appear in games after SE and before SCIV. Rock featured in every game until SCV. None of them are one-hit wonders. In fact, other than Necrid (whom I think we can consider as being a kind of guest character, given his licensing issues), no main roster character in the history of the franchise has ever appeared in just one game (aside from Groh and Azwel, of course, as they have not been afforded an opportunity to re-appear as yet).

 

[sytus]

Basically, I'm saying that Algol's inclusion in SoulCalibur VI would necessitate a time skip

Depends which time skip you're on about, though personally I would prefer to play through Algol story in ancient times in SC7, becoming a great ruler then lose your son to Soul Edge. Algol Would require a different moveset though considering he doesn't get his wacky moveset until SC4 timeline.

 

[DanteSC3]

@Klimat Literally the only character who didn't make it from SoulBlade to SoulCalibur I was Li Long (originally Cervantes, but he was added in the console version). Han-myeong hardly counts, as he was just a Hwang skin on the console version, but even he did make an appearance in SoulCalibur VI, albeit again as a glorified Mitsurugi skin, for what it's worth. But I'm pretty sure the end goal being to get back to SoulCalibur III's roster includes Li Long by happenstance, not because it's specifically being targeted to bring back SoulBlade's roster.

There are enough character slots to get SoulCalibur III's roster, but not to work in SoulCalibur IV's roster, not without making sacrifices. The two sacrifices would be Hwang and LI Long to make room for Algol and Hilde, as that was what literally happened, but in that Yellow is almost a certainty to be Hwang, it would make sense to go to the SoulCalibur III roster more than the SoulCalibur IV roster. Because it would be weird if it was Yun-seong who was missing instead, a very particular inconsistency. Anything could happen, of course, but... the only way we'll know for sure is when it does.

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@Rusted Blade It's hard to say, really. SoulCalibur V is the only game in the series that was so woefully incomplete that it needed a companion book to fill in the gaps and complete the story. It would stand to reason that the material contained in the book would have been implemented into the game, assuming it was finished. The book is considered canon, for all intents and purposes, so it would be odd to accept the parts that were partially represented in the game and yet reject the parts that weren't even remotely hinted at in the game. Either it's all canon, or none of it's canon, and that some of it is definitely canon, then all of it must indeed be canon.

I acknowledge that Edge Master and Night Terror are transcendent beings, as is Algol, who draws his power from the Astral Chaos, and Cassandra is a mere mortal, but... Patroklos was clearly able to exist in the Astral Chaos, he was just sent back in time by Edge Master to undo his mistake. If it was implemented in the game, by that same reasoning, Edge Master could send Cassandra back, I suppose, but in that he didn't, there may have been some underlying reason why he couldn't, but it's hard to say, considering what context we didn't get.

So there's nothing that inherently says that Cassandra couldn't just live in Astral Chaos for 17 years. Maybe she would be the Azwel of SoulCalibur V, secretly manipulating events and we'll find out whenever we get back to that point in history. Though I feel like she would have, at several points, just popped in to smack Patroklos upside his stupid head to set him straight rather than seeing him fail over and over, unless she just enjoyed watching.

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@sytus This could be neat, to give Algol's true backstory in playable form, instead of only being in a cutscene. But I feel like having to make a new move set just for that, where in the game he would appear would also have his SoulCalibur IV move set... doesn't make it very likely. But it's okay to have dreams! They might could implement it as that game's second story mode, though I feel like they would feel compelled to make CaS relevant to it, somehow, so you'd likely play as someone else, not Algol or Arcturus, but a bystander who would see those events take place.

The time skip I meant would mean that we would be skipping over SoulCalibur II and SoulCalibur III events to bring Algol into existence prematurely.

 

[Klimat]

But I'm pretty sure the end goal being to get back to SoulCalibur III's roster includes Li Long by happenstance, not because it's specifically being targeted to bring back SoulBlade's roster.

Li Long was not in the main SC3 roster though, he was delegated to a bonus character pile dump along with other half-complete and broken styles. When SC3 character select screen itself didn't take Li Long seriously, I have no idea why you guys do.

 

[DanteSC3]

Li Long was not in the main SC3 roster though, he was delegated to a bonus character pile dump along with other half-complete and broken styles. When SC3 character select screen itself didn't take Li Long seriously, I have no idea why you guys do.

In the PS2 release, yes, Li Long was "just" a bonus character, though I do maintain that he, Hwang, and Amy were a cut above the rest, and in Arcade Edition, those three specifically were upgraded to full character status, and then, for unknown reasons, only Amy made the cut to SoulCalibur IV, when both Hwang and Li Long had very serviceable and complete, fleshed out, and independent from Yun-seong and Maxi, move sets.

 

[Rusted Blade]

In the PS2 release, yes, Li Long was "just" a bonus character, though I do maintain that he, Hwang, and Amy were a cut above the rest, and in Arcade Edition, those three specifically were upgraded to full character status, and then, for unknown reasons, only Amy made the cut to SoulCalibur IV, when both Hwang and Li Long had very serviceable and complete, fleshed out, and independent from Yun-seong and Maxi, move sets.

Indeed, Li Long was a more viable moveset in AE than was Maxi, imo.

 

[Klimat]

In the PS2 release, yes, Li Long was "just" a bonus character, though I do maintain that he, Hwang, and Amy were a cut above the rest, and in Arcade Edition, those three specifically were upgraded to full character status, and then, for unknown reasons, only Amy made the cut to SoulCalibur IV, when both Hwang and Li Long had very serviceable and complete, fleshed out, and independent from Yun-seong and Maxi, move sets.

Never played this version. Interesting, thanks!

 

[Rusted Blade]

Never played this version. Interesting, thanks!

Oh that's a pity dude--it was the shit! I can't tell you how much I wish they would have ported that game at some point. It cut the other 14 bonus characters entirely in order to accomodate the three characters who had deeper roots in series lore getting their full move sets, but also implemented a massive rework of the balance and mechanics that made the game an actual competetive fighter. It was too little, too late as far as salvaging the game for the tournament scene, but it is the definitive version of SCIII. Even with 14 characters and most of SCIII:CE's sprawling story content cut, if I had to choose just one version to be released on current generation consoles, I'd have to go with AE. It's a tough call, because there's so much content from the CE that didn't make it into the AE, but AE just played so much better. Honestly, I may buy an arcade box of it some day if I can find one at a reasonable price.