the problem with sc...

I like watching Korean games. They use the most sidestepping I've ever seen around. The matches are very mobile. I find it very entertaining and very interesting. Definitely my favorite to watch.

But I also happen to like watching BLDave's matches. He plays a different kind of defensive game. If you fail to see his defense, I don't know about your definition of defense. Defense doesn't mean passive.

[edit] About parries. I believe the first fighting game character to have it was Jubei from Samurai Shodown 2.
 
those japanese matches were boring as hell, all they use are safe pokes, lows and grabs... there's also minimum stepping, are they pussy or something?
 
TheWatcherAlias said:
I like watching Korean games. They use the most sidestepping I've ever seen around. The matches are very mobile. I find it very entertaining and very interesting. Definitely my favorite to watch.

But I also happen to like watching BLDave's matches. He plays a different kind of defensive game. If you fail to see his defense, I don't know about your definition of defense. Defense doesn't mean passive.

[edit] About parries. I believe the first fighting game character to have it was Jubei from Samurai Shodown 2.
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again, i'd like to reiterate that i see nothing wrong with bldave's vid. i enjoyed watching it as well because... it's entertaining. i dig watching sc period and i can appreciate all forms of play. i was simply using it as a point of reference to show the vast difference of play style.

hteng: i did mention before that i didn't post those vids to talk about their offense, but what they did defensively. i also said that the vids weren't necessarily saying "these guys are awesome! wow check it out," so much as saying "look... yea, it's really different, isn't it?"

the korean vids... those guys are just nuts. i can't even begin to understand what's going through their heads. it can't be too much as it seems there's way too much muscle memory going into those matches.
 
The second video didn't help your point too much. For the others, yeah I feel like I'm seeing more of the same, poke then block, those players are "stuffing" alot of attacks.

What I see is highlevel play, then I see some more, but I don't see the difference. You say bldave video is an example of aggression yet I see that playstyle in the videos you showed.

Except the first, it seems like the asta was afraid to attack the yosh out of his stances. Which allowed the yosh to get gimmicky.

The only reason i didn't think the korean vids were gasm awesome, was because it was like the other vids I had seen, the only difference being their "tech application" and their "reaction time" was godlike. However, as I remember the fights, it was also still alot of poking and defending. Stepping is there, in different forms.

I also disagree with you saying people are going balls out aggressive. Show me a video like that, because i dont see anything like that in the BLdave video. You can say its aggressive, but compared to the videos you posted its pretty much the same.
 
coth_x said:
The only reason i didn't think the korean vids were gasm awesome, was because it was like the other vids I had seen, the only difference being their "tech application" and their "reaction time" was godlike. However, as I remember the fights, it was also still alot of poking and defending. Stepping is there, in different forms.
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The teching, spacing, defense, stepping, and reaction time is what makes them gasmic in the first place IMO.


Personally, the match vids that I find to be the most entertaining are from HK and Korea.
 
well..people are "all out offensive" online a lot more than offline from what I've seen...partly from fear of someone actually being able to punish correctly offline..lol. And I agree with Hajime..the yoshi was VERY unsafe with the gimmicks. I mean..if it works than fine I guess...but that astaroth was TOO defensive ...to the point of being passive I think at times. Which is when gimmicks start to work. Although I wouldn't say the yoshi was "bad".. just very unsafe (and unsafe in a way that wasn't probably a good way to be unsafe...especially against astaroth who could and should have punished the hell out of that yoshi)
 
coth_x said:
The second video didn't help your point too much. For the others, yeah I feel like I'm seeing more of the same, poke then block, those players are "stuffing" alot of attacks.

What I see is highlevel play, then I see some more, but I don't see the difference. You say bldave video is an example of aggression yet I see that playstyle in the videos you showed.

Except the first, it seems like the asta was afraid to attack the yosh out of his stances. Which allowed the yosh to get gimmicky.

The only reason i didn't think the korean vids were gasm awesome, was because it was like the other vids I had seen, the only difference being their "tech application" and their "reaction time" was godlike. However, as I remember the fights, it was also still alot of poking and defending. Stepping is there, in different forms.

I also disagree with you saying people are going balls out aggressive. Show me a video like that, because i dont see anything like that in the BLdave video. You can say its aggressive, but compared to the videos you posted its pretty much the same.
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i'm done debating this with you and it's not because you disagree with me, it's because you don't seem to understand the differences between what has been 3 obviously different styles of gameplay. what you see as "essentially the same" is actually drastically different. that's fine that you do, but you don't "get it". you consider any kind of blocking, stepping, poking as a basis to say two people play the same way. that's ludicrous.

the big problem i had when i first started this thread was that i thought everyone played the same way as well. ever since i started it, however, i've been noticing more and more differences among better players; not only the ones i play against, but the ones in other vid's, such as the kor/hk vids, and ceirn's regionals (if you watch those vids and ignore the charges, you'll see he plays a great distance game) and these vids weren't available to me at the time. the players that had whooped me have since played against me a few more times. i also noted that those players too played an amazing distance and blocking game. don't get me wrong, there are great players who can play aggressively as well, but i think they are few and far between.
 
tribaL said:
i'm done debating this with you and it's not because you disagree with me, it's because you don't seem to understand the differences between what has been 3 obviously different styles of gameplay. what you see as "essentially the same" is actually drastically different. that's fine that you do, but you don't "get it". you consider any kind of blocking, stepping, poking as a basis to say two people play the same way. that's ludicrous.

the big problem i had when i first started this thread was that i thought everyone played the same way as well. ever since i started it, however, i've been noticing more and more differences among better players; not only the ones i play against, but the ones in other vid's, such as the kor/hk vids, and ceirn's regionals (if you watch those vids and ignore the charges, you'll see he plays a great distance game) and these vids weren't available to me at the time. the players that had whooped me have since played against me a few more times. i also noted that those players too played an amazing distance and blocking game. don't get me wrong, there are great players who can play aggressively as well, but i think they are few and far between.
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Perhaps I would have to play them to see the difference, but I just don't see it in the vids. Also, yes I see a difference, but not so much a difference necessary to say they aren't playing pretty much the same. Except for the koreans who are obviously using telepathy.

I'm done too.
 
someone brought to my attention a thread over at cf.com that is, essentially, making the same comparison that i've recently begun making in this thread as of late. a person that i hardly ever agreed with in the past, and actually had some stupid online scuffles over nothing with, seems to possibly hold the same opinion that i have. i'm not positive on that as it's a little vague, but the idea is there.

WCMaxi at CF.COM said:
Man... having watched more movies lately... I feel embarrassed as an American. Seriously, the level of play in North America is so far below in the international scene...
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That's great, but until we fight with the international scene all this talk means nothing. I don't particularly care if there are bunch of foreign nut hugging Americans who think that our level of play is 'so far below the international scene'. Results are everything, and when we crush the other countries that will prove far more than a few videos possibly can.
 
I've never really understood that mentality. "These other people playing the game... Meh. If they beat us, then we'll play catch up. Not going to examine what's going on anywhere else there til then!"

I could if it's ever worked out that way, but history's not usually on that mode of thinking's side. (Usually the people that end up getting around such oncoming storms are already doing similar things themselves.)

Didn't work out for US Tekken players. "Fancy movements? Bah. We'll just low punch 'em out of it!"
Didn't work out that well for US SC2 players. "Nightmare's 3 is broken!"
Didn't work for 3S. "Parrys are the devil's candy!"

Of course, that dynamic's true of any territory that generally ignores something, not the US alone. The games just stagnate until a "revelation" happens at some point. (Revelations, that in general rely on an already known mechanic that people within that given territory just never bothered to explore (MvC2 in Japan for example) until after it's force fed to them.)
 
now, the japanese vids i showed are one thing, because i didn't show them to impress anybody. the hk/kor vids are a totally different story though; i don't see how you couldn't be impressed with those videos. i totally agree with the point of "waiting and seeing" who comes out on top in international play, but you can't deny that the hk/kor vids are very impressive.
 
Sure they had some cool stuff in them, but they are nowhere near the level of impressive that people on 8wayrun make them out to be. So yeah I am denying that those videos are 'very impressive'.
 
Ceirnian said:
Sure they had some cool stuff in them, but they are nowhere near the level of impressive that people on 8wayrun make them out to be. So yeah I am denying that those videos are 'very impressive'.
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well, may i ask what you consider impressive then?
 
Tribal said:
the korean vids... those guys are just nuts. i can't even begin to understand what's going through their heads. it can't be too much as it seems there's way too much muscle memory going into those matches.
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The word I use to describe it is "intuitive." Its a lot of off-the-cuff moves.

As far as America vs International goes. I have no doubt BLDave or other top players here (OOF comes to mind) can compete with them and give these guys a run for their money. With differences in styles aside, they are both good. Its just different like apples and oranges.

Something I notice about Eastern and Western styles in general, not just in this game but other things, is that for the most part Americans are "thinking" players that adhere to details and playing efficiently. Asia for the most part are "feel" players. They play intuitively. It comes down to masculine vs feminine traits. Both good, but different, approaches to the game IMO.
 
CrazyYoshimitsu said:
I see everyone give those japanese people props. Which is fine, but CY will this into response to the jaapnese Soul calibur players out there. I don't hate you, but I don't give a freaking Ivy get rape apple who you are. I'll take you on. I'm ain't of no japanese players. Tell all of this hye all you want. I must do combat with someone from japanese to find out for myself.
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...... I felt it was relevant enough to give me a reason to post it.
 
Ceirnian said:
Sure they had some cool stuff in them, but they are nowhere near the level of impressive that people on 8wayrun make them out to be. So yeah I am denying that those videos are 'very impressive'.
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HK & Korea have the only high-level Setsuka stuff I've seen anywhere. And Chang's Friend's Cervy...it's almost like he's playing a whole different game from Brian. Seeing him is what finally made me believe Nori was right about Cervy being top-tier.
 
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