Hilde Ban Discussion

[ioKain]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

I don't have a problem with her combo's, it's the fact that she's so goddamn safe. Her damn pushback and safe moves can really make me grit my teeth sometimes. :/

 

[kittianinja]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

it's not a one hit ko, but i'm one of those crazy people that thinks that if i get hit with something that kills me, it was probably my fault. i also think that the characters that are banned shouldn't be.

Madness sir u mean u actually believe in playing smart and not complaining about shit that can be dealt with? I say we ban u! :)

 

[IgnisPhaseOne]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

OK, now that this discussion has moved into general complaints/anti-Hilde tactics, can we at least do something about the thread title? Seriously, seeing this in the forum irks me, as IMO this crap isn't even worth discussing. Talking about how good Hilde is as an overall character and whether she should be completely banned or not is something we could ACTUALLY discuss.

 

[Fuzion]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

It's not a ohko.

It is. She has them from several areas on the average stage, including center stage. It's 1 mistake = death. That's a 1-hit KO. Yes she hits me a few more times in a juggle, but that's just semantics. The point is losing a full bar from 1 mistake nowhere near a ring edge is completely imbalanced.

she has an OHKO combo, but no one wants to spend 31 game seconds charging B and combined with placing someone next to a wall to pull it off?

I'm not talking about 31 second charges or whatever. This is simple stuff like landing a C3B or FC C3B. You don't need 31 seconds to get a 1-hit KO with her from midscreen.

it's not a one hit ko, but i'm one of those crazy people that thinks that if i get hit with something that kills me, it was probably my fault. i also think that the characters that are banned shouldn't be.

Again, it is a one hit KO. And of course it was your/my fault for letting it hit us. It's called a mistake. The point is that the punishment for said mistake is way imbalanced. 100% from most anywhere on the screen is too much, sorry.

Madness sir u mean u actually believe in playing smart and not complaining about shit that can be dealt with? I say we ban u! :)

Shut the fuck up you smug noob. I believe in playing smart, and I bet I play a hell of a lot smarter than you do. Even smart people get hit with i20 safe launcher from huge range, did you know that? It's imbalanced to lose from being hit once by it.

OK, now that this discussion has moved into general complaints/anti-Hilde tactics, can we at least do something about the thread title? Seriously, seeing this in the forum irks me, as IMO this crap isn't even worth discussing. Talking about how good Hilde is as an overall character and whether she should be completely banned or not is something we could ACTUALLY discuss.

Ok, you're stupid. Discussing a full stage RO which isn't banned yet is not worthy to you, but banning the character entirely is "something we could actually discuss"? Stop calling for threads to be closed, just stop reading it if you're done with it. The rest of us are discussing in here.

***Now for some video proof of what I'm saying***

Watch the third match starting at 4:24. Now watch carefully, I'll explain what happens. All 3 rounds I lose are to absurd ringouts from across the stage. My two wins are from KO. Here's a breakdown of the rounds I lost:

Round 1: I'm only hit twice in this round, both at the center of the stage. The first one is just a chip low and doesn't matter. The second one kills me and wouldve been a 1-hit KO anyways with or without being hit by a low before it.

Round 2: Here's the solid proof for you people saying she doesn't have a 1-hit KO. I am only hit once in this round, after a blocked 1[K]. I lose a round for doing 1K at the center of the stage.

Round 3: Last and final round, not as bad as the other ones, but again I'm juggled to the ringout from way too far resulting in a higher damage open-field combo than most any character in the game.

Actually, let's just make it simple. Just say "fair" if you think the punishment for blocking lizardman's 1[K] at the center of the stage should be a 100% combo. This will help me clearly identify the retards.

 

[Windstar]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

you take away that combo, or anything near it, and she just lost her most essential juggle. i'm pretty convinced that if you take that combo away, you're dropping her to low tier period. i mean, really, what other options would you have with her? you land a c3b, and juggle with... what exactly? she would do such a small amount of damage on her juggles that c3b would essentially become worthless considering the amount of time it takes to charge it in the first place.

and, for the record, she's not overpowered, you just don't know how to play against her. as hilde, if someone shuts down your charge game, it takes a lot of thinking and setup to make it become a factor again.

You land C3B, you can B+K then 4A+B. Nice damaging combo.

 

[Runis]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Watching that, almost every time you ate the C3B, you were far too aggressive and deserved it.
The first match, you DROPPED YOUR GUARD. Flinching deserves a loss.
The Second match I noticed you used a very very unsafe move with lizard man which I personally would have Ducked the 2nd part, stepped the third and caused you to possibly cry even more. The first C3B you ate you were trying to attack at disadvantage and got punished for it. The 2nd one you fell prey to mind games. The C2BB C3A killer is IRRELEVANT to this discussion since every single character would be able to ring you out off a launcher at that range.

3rd match and I'm still seeing unstepped bad moves, which leads me to believe that this Hilde doesn't really know everything about her yet. The C3B was a twitch guard, not sure what you were thinking there. The FC C2B you crawled right into. You say it's not "fair", I say you didn't check out what each character can do before attending a tourney and what you shouldn't be doing. And the killing blow was you trying to pull off a UB charge.
So are you saying that Nightmare's RO combo's, which travel forward almost the same distance as Hilde's should be banned? Rock's 2B+G should be banned since the combo off that rings out over half-walls and goes 3/4 of a screen?
You say

Actually, let's just make it simple. Just say "fair" if you think the punishment for blocking lizardman's 1[K] at the center of the stage should be a 100% combo. This will help me clearly identify the retards.

Well let me ask you if you truly believe you deserved to win against that Hilde since she used an Unfair advantage of a "OHKO". Or are you saying that all tournaments should be played in Cage since Ring Outs are a biased and an unfair OHKO option?

 

[GynormousFish]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Only one solution, really. GRAB THE BITCH. I don't know if this has been said, but it is very hard for the other player to break the throws since they are button binding 90 percent of the time. Besides that, don't complain about being beaten with the ringout combos. Just learn how to beat it. It's not unbeatable.

 

[MONEYMUFFINS]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Hey Tribal, in response to what you said about Hilde going to suck if her combo gets banned, please review what players better than you have said:

I find it hilarious that people think she would not be able to compete if her combo's were patched. Simply put, if the combo did not lead to ring out (or even being in a walled stage) and I am confident Hilde is still one of the best characters in the game. For all this talk of how predictable her charges can be, have you even considered that changing charge orders / charge cancelling (pressing b or a during a move, during a throw animation, during block etc so people can't tell what level of charge you have) / substituting faster moves in between gaps that people try to stop / amazing throw game (get into the habit of ducking and a world of pain awaits) / ability to step insanely well / ...

I could go on more but really, she has almost every tool in the game to compete and good answers for tons of situations. Her charges are a central part of her gameplay so saying she wouldn't be that great without them is a moot point. That's like saying if we took away stances from Siegfried he would be subpar. It doesn't work that way.

Ok that aside, with regards to some opinions about hilde losing a lot of edge if she doesnt have the combo...

Hilde is still very strong without her doom combo. She WILL remain very competitive... she'd probably fit in between A-B tier. A close to 80 damage safe mid option in a mixup? that is mighty good if you ask me. Its true that the mixup requires hilde to get really close, but because of her great range, and the absurd range of her whiff punisher, getting in becomes relatively easier.

Hm, let's see here. Who should I listen to? Top players who win tournaments with Hilde... or some jackass that says I need to improve at beating 1 hit KOs? Please help!!

 

[SWBeta]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

snip

Chill.

I left this thread open for discussion purposes, but if you start being a prick over this, it will be closed.

 

[Tiamat]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Funny thread. Everyone who supports banning it because "it's not fun" being hit by it: please go die in a fire.

 

[Fuzion]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Flinching deserves a loss.

LOL. Ok.

The Second match I noticed you used a very very unsafe move with lizard man which I personally would have Ducked the 2nd part, stepped the third and caused you to possibly cry even more.

Maybe you would have, but I wasn't playing against you now was I? I was getting away with it in this match so I continued to use it.

3rd match and I'm still seeing unstepped bad moves, which leads me to believe that this Hilde doesn't really know everything about her yet.

Holy shit, we have a winner! In fact, he's a good friend of mine and he's only been playing this character about a week. Yet, even without knowing the character that well he was able to beat me with 1 or 2-hit KOs. It's yet another indication of how imbalanced the character is when it can elevate the player to victories they werent getting before. Which unstepped bad moves are you referring to by the way?

The FC C2B you crawled right into.

You noticed that, huh? 1[K] to LC A is a combo, you have to commit to go to crawl for it to work. What is your point here?

You say it's not "fair", I say you didn't check out what each character can do before attending a tourney and what you shouldn't be doing.

Nice. So, if I had known ahead of time that the round is over if she blocks 1[K] then it would've been fair? Just by me knowing about it? Solid logic right there, 100% combos are fair IF YOU KNOW ABOUT THEM. In fact, I did know about her crazy ringouts, and I was curious to see how my friend would be able to do with his 1 week hilde against me when I previously had won most of the time against his other characters. The results were convincing and expected: 1-hit KO's from a safe launcher at mid stage are indeed game-breaking.

So are you saying that Nightmare's RO combo's, which travel forward almost the same distance as Hilde's should be banned? Rock's 2B+G should be banned since the combo off that rings out over half-walls and goes 3/4 of a screen?

Which nightmare combo are you referring to? Some GS KK ringout stuff? Not even close to the same as hilde. Also, I'm sure whatever you're referring to is easily block punishable somewhere. Rock's 2B+G leads to a 3/4 screen ringout? I'd like to see that. Nonetheless, it's a breakable grab so again, not nearly like Hilde's safe launchers from huge range or full crouch.

Well let me ask you if you truly believe you deserved to win against that Hilde since she used an Unfair advantage of a "OHKO".

We'll never know if I deserved to win, he could've made a comeback in those rounds where I was leading by a lot. One thing is for sure, I definitely didn't deserve to lose to 1-hit or 2-hit KO's. It certainly looked like I should've won though, both here and the loser's finals.

Or are you saying that all tournaments should be played in Cage since Ring Outs are a biased and an unfair OHKO option?

No, that's too broad, but close. I feel Hilde matches only should be forced to play on a fully walled stage. I think the cage or tower of rememberance might be too small for her to take advantage of her range game, which is unfair. I think Hall of the Warrior God would be a better fit.

 

[Fuzion]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Only one solution, really. GRAB THE BITCH. I don't know if this has been said, but it is very hard for the other player to break the throws since they are button binding 90 percent of the time. Besides that, don't complain about being beaten with the ringout combos. Just learn how to beat it. It's not unbeatable.

This post is a typical misconstrued opinion about what's going on here. No one is arguing that it is "unbeatable". What it is, is imbalanced. It is way too strong to have a death combo from a safe, quick move from just about anywhere on the stage.

Also, your solution isn't a solution. If she ducks that throw once, you lose the round after she does FC C2B (or C3B, I dunno).

 

[Sora]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

This post is a typical misconstrued opinion about what's going on here. No one is arguing that it is "unbeatable". What it is, is imbalanced. It is way too strong to have a death combo from a safe, quick move from just about anywhere on the stage.

Also, your solution isn't a solution. If she ducks that throw once, you lose the round after she does FC C2B (or C3B, I dunno).

Only thing here I can see myself agreeing with. I mentioned this in my risk-reward post earlier; throwing Hilde is more to your disadvantage than to your advantage, and definitely more to HER advantage and virtually no disadvantage.

The rest of the statements, I don't necessarily agree with or are up for debate.

 

[SWBeta]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?


I'm of the stance that it you get hit by shit, it's your fault unless it was some utter fluke shit like a once-in-a-lifetime glitch or something similar.

Round 1, it happens. You tried to attack when MJ released C3B. C3B was faster. That's all. You could have just kept holding block and waited.

Round 2, 1[K]~LC gets punished by FC C2B.
You don't play against Raphael like you would play against Talim. You don't play against Siegfried like you would play Vader.
You don't play against one character the same way as you would play another. Not only do you have to apply anti-character strats, you also have to adapt to the player behind the character.

You should know that Hilde has a launcher from FC that can be used to punish moves like 1[K]~LC. As such, you should have tried to use it more sparingly. You landed 1K 4 times in the previous round. Maybe MJ adapted and started anticipating it, realizing that he could get the launcher off of it on block. And it happened.

Round 3, you did 1K again. He blocked and punished with C3BBA. As for how you lost, you gambled by doing 8[A+B] after a throw. You lost the gamble.

What I see is that MJ adapted more to your playstyle than you did to his.

Playing a disgustingly safe game is something Lizardman can do--he has the tools. That playstyle works best against Hilde. You don't try and play against Hilde like you would every other character. As of right now, those charge combos are not banned, and they probably never will be. So what do you do? You suck it up and find ways to bolster your defense against said charges.

Going off on a side rant here:

The only reason I support Algol ban is because the bubbles can block the view of the action. If the bubbles became transparent when they're that close to the screen, I wouldn't give a shit if he was allowed in tournament play.

I dunno, maybe it's because I'm a Tekken player. In tekken 5+, you fuck up, you die. This made the gameplay very defense-oriented. In TTT, Ogres were boss characters, and they were goooooooooooood. So good, they rendered some characters completely. fucking. useless. Did people call for a ban? Fuck no. They upped their game and kept playing. And it didn't kill competitiveness. TTT, to this date, is still the most competitive Tekken game ever.

Defense wins games. Ask any good player and they'll tell you that having a solid defense is more important than anything else. A close second is knowledge. This is why good players from other fighting game scenes have easily jumped the ranks in SC4, although it's their first SC game; the concept of a good defense is transferable between any and all fighting games.

Runis made a quote that I absolutely love: You say it's not "fair", I say you didn't check out what each character can do before attending a tourney and what you shouldn't be doing.

This.

Read it again.

People these days are too damn lazy to put in the work to become really good at the game. They just cry ban on everything that at first glance seems to be totally fucked instead of working to find ways to defend against them. Up your knowledge of every other character in the game and test/devise anti-strats for their good shit. Just reading the forums, watching some youtube vids, and learning YOUR characters' good shit doesn't make you good. Going the extra step and studying other characters and coming up with character-specific strats, in addition to solidifying your defense and having your own unique strats and/or gimmicks under your belt is what makes you good. Back in the day, this wasn't called "going the extra step," it was called "the NORM."

Have you seen matches between two players that know their opponents' characters inside and out? It's a beautiful thing, because there is that extra layer of depth that is introduced when the two players try to legitimately outwit the other. That's what fighting games are all about.

Unfortunately, standards have dropped due to the explosion of the information age/the internet. Lots and lots of people that think that just by watching a few youtube vids and reading/posting on a few forums, they can hang with the players that have put a shit-ton more effort into the game. GTFO of here with that.

Stop being sheep. Be the motherfucking shepherd.

 

[Greven]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

SWBeta: why cant u aggree on the fact that hilde is totally broken oO

She only need one hit to win the round, all you have to do is make your opponent whiff one time with a step or backdash (omg she has many bs) or get an auto-gi and its the end.

The gamestyle needs 30 min of training and the combo needs 10. Omg i am so god tier in soulcalibur after that much effort.

 

[Fuzion]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

I want to reply to all that stuff you said SWBeta, but I just don't have it in me right now. I'll summarize a few points, including the last thing you said which is incredibly ironic.

For the most part, I agree that getting hit is your own fault. I agreed with it when tribal said it earlier. But like I told him, beyond that, the damage is way too imbalanced. People are going to make mistakes, and deserve to get punished for them. That's what makes the game enjoyable. That's the give and take. You try to come out on top having depleted their lifebar more than they depleted yours.

But this 1-hit KO business, breaks that nature of the game completely. Tell me, why do I even need a lifebar to keep track of who's winning when it's over after I get hit once? Just put a checkbox there for "hit yet/ not hit yet". How about the NBA changes its rules to first team to hit a 3-pointer wins. Yea, eventually one team is going to make a mistake and let the guy hit a three. And you guys will be right in line to say "see! should've blocked that shot! that's your own fault!". Does that really make for a "good game" to you? Does that make the game deep and allow for a variety of skills to be developed.

Unfortunately, standards have dropped due to the explosion of the information age/the internet. Lots and lots of people that think that just by watching a few youtube vids and reading/posting on a few forums, they can hang with the players that have put a shit-ton more effort into the game. GTFO of here with that.

Ironically, this is what you're advocating to happen. All you have to do is go online, read up on a few of the hilde combos and get them down, watch a youtube vid or two, and a week later you are on my level. Truly, GTFO of here with THAT.

 

[SWBeta]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Greven, Hilde is not "totally broken." I'm not saying that she's balanced, either. I'm saying that some of you need to suck it up and just deal with it.

People deal with much, much worse shit in other games.

Ironically, this is what you're advocating to happen. All you have to do is go online, read up on a few of the hilde combos and get them down, watch a youtube vid or two, and a week later you are on my level. Truly, GTFO of here with THAT.

If you play someone who can do that, they are either really gifted/talented, or you aren't as good as you think you are. No offense.

Don't distort the message, please. :D

 

[CNP]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Ironically, this is what you're advocating to happen. All you have to do is go online, read up on a few of the hilde combos and get them down, watch a youtube vid or two, and a week later you are on my level. Truly, GTFO of here with THAT.

lol This is what I'm gonna do. I have no idea how to play Hilde just yet. So let's see how well I can do at the San Antonio tourney in two weeks after picking her up. Now where's that combo thread at...

 

[page]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

People deal with much, much worse shit in other games.

Just want to say: this is the worst possible attitude for someone trying to play a competitive game at a competitive level. Or anyone trying to do anything, really.

 

[SWBeta]

Should Hilde Full Ring RO Combos = Banned?

Just want to say: this is the worst possible attitude for someone trying to play a competitive game at a competitive level. Or anyone trying to do anything, really.

True, but it's the truth. People DO deal with worse in other games.

CNP: Looking forward to the outcome lololol