236k: Heavy Hitter?

Marginal

Marginal

Chikara Sashimi
After losing the 8WR version, I left 236K alone for a long time since I kinda suck at 236 motions. (That, and you can't really continue attacking post hit/ch like you could in SC3 etc.) Playing around with it though, it seems to have potential.

Pluses
+ It's a TC for a long ass time, and starts up fast.
+ Deep hit nets 49dmg on CH (44 on hit w/same followup options either way).
+ Can be followed up with 236A if they don't tech for 46 dmg if you think they'll roll, delay it til they stop and it'll still land.
+ If teched to the left, 3A+K for 48-50dmg if they don't get up ducking.
​
Minuses
- Harder to execute (vs 2A, 6A+B etc)
- Have to anticipate a H 'cause it's not great on block (even the cancels pretty much suck)
- Steppable​

Since I haven't seen any discussion on 236K at all I thought it'd be worth discussing. Seems like a few pairings of moves that leads to 80+ damage for so little effort should be worth something in Maxi's gameplan.
 
I really like to use it on wake up, when people have good reasons to believe that I'll attempt a low on them while they're down.

(Edit : ...I wonder if it was a little too obvious, because I can't really see so many other reasons to use that move, but hey, someone had to say it, I guess.)
 
I want to use 236K more but me and 236 inputs just dont seem to get along. The input timing seems so strict I can only use it in training mode and not in the heat of battle. Im working on improving, however.
 
100 hours of umbrella and silvermoon combo training for the both of you and/or until you quit whining!
 
I think seraphim's strikes are what are really in order =P

Your move better actually be hard if it's good, but your thinking above leaving it out of your move set.
 
Plume said:
I really like to use it on wake up, when people have good reasons to believe that I'll attempt a low on them while they're down.

(Edit : ...I wonder if it was a little too obvious, because I can't really see so many other reasons to use that move, but hey, someone had to say it, I guess.)
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It worked on me.

LOL.

I have to start using it more. I'll take this move to my laboratory.

A+Bg is a followup for this move right?
 
A+BG is combo

I use it, not too much though. The cancels help though. By the time they realized u've stopped, it's too late to punish hahaha.
 
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Plume said:
I really like to use it on wake up, when people have good reasons to believe that I'll attempt a low on them while they're down.

(Edit : ...I wonder if it was a little too obvious, because I can't really see so many other reasons to use that move, but hey, someone had to say it, I guess.)
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The ideal use would be in interrupting highs since it sets up more damage than 6A+B or 2A can, (92 dmg on a flush hit if you connect with a follow up 236A. Great for times when the other player has decided to take their time getting up. Really the damage it leads to is my point, not the execution issues.) TC's faster, and has a longer TC window overall.

Execution/risk's not so bad as long as you remember that you can buffer the 236 while guarding.
 
Marginal said:
The ideal use would be in interrupting highs
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if I should ask this here, because it's more basic than the topic, but are there really situations where you can *expect* a high? I mean, outside of multi-hit attacks like Maxi's BL KK for example... Even though that alone could be enough of a reason to use it.
 
i to have issues with 236k & 236b. simply cause it does seem to be pretty strict on the input. Plume got me with the 236k 236b combo the other day and thought it was genius. I feel for it on the wake end of it. I can totally see where that would be useful. However im not to thrilled bout the range. Its defeinetly a close range thing that could be really punishable if you whiff. I do want to add it to my strat though. Im off to training!!
 
236k, 236b combos?

btw, 236 isnt that hard to buffer, play sophie or cass and start stabbing people. The motion is pretty much the same.
 
I think (hope) that he meant that I did 236K,236A.

But I might have done 236K,236B by mistake... if it's the case and it apparently turned out well for me, I'd like to hear, because I forgot about that, and it might be useful in some situations, heh.
 
u can expect highs in a battle quite easily. Some characters are reliant on highs, NM, Sieg. Some characters abuse highs like Amy with her 6BB. Correct anticipation can be rewarded. 236K -> 236A is great damage provided they don't block it. I'll look into it some more, see how fast the TC is, maybe i can punish throws with it hmm.

Also remember guys, that you can do this attack from crouching guard as well..without RCC as with all those type of commands.
 
No matter how bad it sounds, I'll say it anyway :
I'm not convinced.

Nightmare and Siegfried don't seem to depend on highs at all. But I guess that I can see how 236K could be used against Amy's 6BB... I suppose that you'd have to side step the first hit, and 236K during the second hit? But we're talking about expecting highs, so I assume that you meant something else.

Maybe there's something that I'm not seeing, or maybe things are different online...
Or maybe I'm just expecting too much.

I cannot see how you can expect highs. Could you give an example or two?
I'm not trying to argue/prove a point. I'd really like to understand how you see things, and then possibly use 236K that way.
 
Nightmare and Sieg's best antistep attacks as well as fastest moves are high moves. Nightmare especially. Apart from 4K for Sieg, all his other fast mids carry a measure of risk.

I think my explanation is pretty straightfoward :/
When you expect a vertical you may step no?
When you expect a low you may do a jumping attack no?
When you expect a slow attack you would try to interrupt no?

Well it's the same thing. 236K may valuable depending your level of certainty of whether a high attack is coming your way; as the damage is quite worth the gamble. IN amy's case, if you expect (i.e pretty sure) that the opponents is going to do 6BB, then you can try 236K and get highly rewarded for it, or fail and get hit by a teeny weeeny 6BB. That's worth it imo. Margi posted that it has a long TC throughout duration so it SHOULD be valuable vs multi high attacks like AA etc, i would do some tests to see at which point it BEGINS TC, that way would we have a clearer picture at what point it's valuable as a TC move. Due to the damage potential of the move I think it's worth a try to at least examine the properties of the move. I'm not saying i'm correct, cuz i hardly use it so i don't know it in detail, but it MAY benefit us to actually look into it before we just write it off as another piece o crap.

Still unclear? an example. Amy hits with 2K, u're slower than her so even at disadvantage she attempts 6BB to interrupt potential attacks. You anticipate that she'll do that and do 236K for major damage. Very straightforward.

Correct anticipation leads to major damage. Yoshi does the same with his 1K kangaroo kick.
 
I think it's rather clear now... There are a few things that I didn't think about.
I suppose that you can only really expect those highs if the opponent is really good, though, but it obviously means that it has potential.

Thanks for the explanations.
 
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that if you did 236K after getting hit with an Amy 2K that you'd STILL get hit with the 6B,B afterwards, and on CH no less.

This all depends on how soon 236K actually TCs but it doesn't seem all THAT fast to me.

To me, this move is VERY character specific as to who you can actually USE it against. Since it's -15 on block, there are some characters who can only lightly punish it and thus, the reward outweighs the risk. In most cases though, I don't see this move as very viable anymore. It's just another example of Maxi's former movelist becoming unsafe for no reason.
 
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Rico said:
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that if you did 236K after getting hit with an Amy 2K that you'd STILL get hit with the 6B,B afterwards, and on CH no less.
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From a quick test in practice, Maxi is capable of landing 236K as CH vs Amy's 6BB after getting hit by the 2K. (If you block the 2k first, then the 236K will not connect solidly however.) It also shuts down Amy's while rising B after 2K on hit.

Vs AA, the move seems to be a TC from the start. (Might just be a virtue of the 2 starting position) Mitsu, Taki's, and Amy's AA's whiffed when A was initiated at the same time as the 236K at any distance.

No question the move sucks on block. As a whiff punisher, and an anti H it seems OK as long as there's no evasive movement on the opponent's part. (236K does not track at all, though the horizontal range is such that it'll usually still catch them for a KND. Damage goes out the window in that case tho.)
 
Yeah Rico i think you're wrong with your TC tests. 236K TC i11 highs at -4 frames and up. I managed to TC Amy's 6BB after landing Maxi's 2K. Also, it's full crouch vs multiple highs so it's very useful. I'm going to add this to my game for sure. It's a damn good antihigh.

Apart from the sisters, noone punishes i15 very well, unless they're super good

Also, 236A is very sloppy after it hits, depending on their tech or sideroll it barely hits and does practically no damage at all. Stick with A+BG combo, and if they sideroll 2B+KB is combo. Very useful setup for 4[A+B] as well if you play your cards right.
 
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