docvizzo
[14] Master
Against Jumpers i still use WS K into Umbrella, the same as in SC4. Its safe, fast, no gamble and good damage. Also recovery is very fast so Umbrella Air hit is easy to do.
α Patroklos General Discussion/ Q&A
- Thread starter BrewtusBibulus
- Start date
Against Jumpers i still use WS K into Umbrella, the same as in SC4. Its safe, fast, no gamble and good damage. Also recovery is very fast so Umbrella Air hit is easy to do.
CheeseOfTheDay
[10] Knight
As i remember 1AAA was guaranteed in juggles in sc3 and sc4 also.
As for 1B:B it's 1 frame for sure, there is a post where someone checked all jf'm with prog. stick and there was 2 frames. Now when it's more strict then it must be 1 frame.
4-5 frames would be super easy because you could just mash a button and have 100% accuracy:P.
Age_of_Truth
[12] Conqueror
It was def 2 frames before, we had a debug mode before so I checked the input window for many moves. AgB was 1 frame twice, FC 3aB was 1 frame, 1BB was 2 frames, and FC 3B B BE was 3 frames twice.
Destinizish
Now Sleep Forever
Wat. I thought 1B:B was mashable before patch - at the very least, one of my friends, who had never played a fighter in his life before, was getting 1B:B around 70%. The window felt waaaay huge.
Ah well, I'm still hitting it, albeit a slightly lower amount of times.
And I was 98% sure you could AC 1A : A : A in SCIV to her weak side. I'd need to go test it again to make sure, but I remember there being a reason I stopped doing it. Maybe it was just the damn whiffing problem the move had in IV.
CheeseOfTheDay
[10] Knight
It was mashable, now it's also mashable but you will habe like 10% of chances for jf doing this way : P, only 1AAA cant be mashed because window for JF locks if you mash.
Shenrei
[09] Warrior
Yeah, it was mashable before the patch. Doesn't look like it's mashable anymore though - I like that a lot :D
Edit: From Cheese's post, looks like it still is but I haven't been successful at it.
Cheese: By any chance do you know how big the 1BB JF window was in SC4?
Edit: From Cheese's post, looks like it still is but I haven't been successful at it.
Cheese: By any chance do you know how big the 1BB JF window was in SC4?
CheeseOfTheDay
[10] Knight
almost sure that 2 frames also, but i played that game more then 2 years ago so i may be wrong
b4k4
[10] Knight
I'm basing this off of guidebook frame data, but I will test it when I have the chance. That won't be for another 14 hours at the soonest, though.I'm pretty sure ab is still -23, jf version or not. I've tested this against myself and unless I'm doing it wrong, I do believe it is still -23... test plz?
Interesting. So 2145K, JF Twister? Haven't tried that. Safer than what I mentioned, but not as punishing. I really want something that says "Do not jump, because I will hurt you." The main point of this is so I can force throw mix ups again.
I feel that WR K seems more... I dunno, accidental? Convenient? The other options are very deliberate, and much more obvious reads. I feel they'll have a more profound psychological impact on my opponent.
Maxou
[11] Champion
Don't bother with unsafe moves, 33B JFO on a air hit opponents works. JFO hits OTG.
Reidrum
[08] Mercenary
[Moved by Syn: Asking about dealing with Zoners]
The ones i have the biggest problems with are Algol and Viola. It seems like with Viola, if I get hit once, I get put in an endless combo and lose. With Algol, I have the biggest problem with his combos ending in a bubble, because then he just follows up with a sweep, or if i sidestep, a dashing horizontal that knocks me down, and repeats.
Does anyone have tips for these matchups?
The ones i have the biggest problems with are Algol and Viola. It seems like with Viola, if I get hit once, I get put in an endless combo and lose. With Algol, I have the biggest problem with his combos ending in a bubble, because then he just follows up with a sweep, or if i sidestep, a dashing horizontal that knocks me down, and repeats.
Does anyone have tips for these matchups?
Viola is a lot of character knowledge, although I have no idea how much better she is after the patch. Just learn where and when you can, or should, tech. Ukemi is pretty important against her if i recall correctly. Do your best to get in safely and know your long range options so you can be a threat from range. 2363B, 6A, and while risky bA, and 8A+B, A can all keep her from throwing things out at certain ranges. Again though it's mostly just learning what's actually going on(kinda like maxi) and how to punish.
Algol's bubbles I believe are special mid which means they can be blocked high or low. His mixup is not actually that safe, so one good block should mean some free pressure, or possibly even a twister into mixup.
Algol's bubbles I believe are special mid which means they can be blocked high or low. His mixup is not actually that safe, so one good block should mean some free pressure, or possibly even a twister into mixup.
Reidrum
[08] Mercenary
Alright. I've started learning viola so I can learn her openings, just gotta work on my ukemi skills i suppose.
I'll keep that in mind with Algol, but it just seems like if I duck to block them, i get slammed by his 66A, if i don't, his sweep or sweep kick>bubble.
I'll keep that in mind with Algol, but it just seems like if I duck to block them, i get slammed by his 66A, if i don't, his sweep or sweep kick>bubble.
Destinizish
Now Sleep Forever
Resident Viola main, here:
Actually - Viola's tech traps are rarely dangerous. There are a couple to watch out for, but for the most part, her Oki isn't based around tech traps. What's dangerous about her Oki game is she gets a free 6B+K while you're OTG. If you stay on the ground, she gets a free 40+ damage poke on you with her OTG 6B+K combo. To make it more dangerous, if you try to block any of that she can setup a B+K BE after it which gives her MASSIVE advantage if you block it, and if you don't - a free 100 damage. If you stand up, you're in any of her many 6B+K setups.
What you need to watch out for with Viola is her 6B+K setups. Once she gets you in one, it's 100% a guessing game. A good Viola will mix you up here, and there's very little you can do about it as none of the practical options are unsafe for her to try on you.
Viola's big weakness? She's got very little to deal with step from mid -> long range, and she doesn't do well against backstep at all. Of course, don't backstep into her 6B+K. On block, you can punish her AAB by using umbrella. BBB is harder to punish, but you can step it or duck it and be at advantage. If she does a BBB6B+K or AAB6B+K feel free to do pretty much ANYTHING from crouch to hit her. You get a free CH WS 3A+B here, even.
Actually - Viola's tech traps are rarely dangerous. There are a couple to watch out for, but for the most part, her Oki isn't based around tech traps. What's dangerous about her Oki game is she gets a free 6B+K while you're OTG. If you stay on the ground, she gets a free 40+ damage poke on you with her OTG 6B+K combo. To make it more dangerous, if you try to block any of that she can setup a B+K BE after it which gives her MASSIVE advantage if you block it, and if you don't - a free 100 damage. If you stand up, you're in any of her many 6B+K setups.
What you need to watch out for with Viola is her 6B+K setups. Once she gets you in one, it's 100% a guessing game. A good Viola will mix you up here, and there's very little you can do about it as none of the practical options are unsafe for her to try on you.
Viola's big weakness? She's got very little to deal with step from mid -> long range, and she doesn't do well against backstep at all. Of course, don't backstep into her 6B+K. On block, you can punish her AAB by using umbrella. BBB is harder to punish, but you can step it or duck it and be at advantage. If she does a BBB6B+K or AAB6B+K feel free to do pretty much ANYTHING from crouch to hit her. You get a free CH WS 3A+B here, even.
Dragonfall
[10] Knight
Once in a while the twister>twister ender will whiff because the first one doesn't place the opponent at the right distance (too close). Anyone know why this happens?
b4k4
[10] Knight
I'd need more information about the specific situation. There are lots of ways to set up the twister twister ender, so where are you seeing it drop?
As a general comment, twisters tend not to OTG on opponents who are knocked into a head towards position, in which case 8A+BB is usually the best OTG option. That's about all I can comment on without knowing more about the specific situation you're experiencing.
Dragonfall
[10] Knight
FC3A+B, 2143B:B, twister twister tends to have the second one whiff.
Also slightly unrelated, but for ag:B ag:B 2A BE twister, sometimes 2A BE will leave the opponent right in front of you (instead of pushing them far away), where twister will whiff.
Also slightly unrelated, but for ag:B ag:B 2A BE twister, sometimes 2A BE will leave the opponent right in front of you (instead of pushing them far away), where twister will whiff.
Wandrian
I don't know.
Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but would anyone on XBL mind sparring with a psychotic scrub? I've yet to play against a remotely competent Patsuka that I can recall. I'd like to change that. I'm expecting to get a fuckton of losses from the experience, but maybe it'll be another bump on the road to me not sucking :D
b4k4
[10] Knight
Are you getting a hard knockdown on the first twister? After the 2143B:B, you need to get a tight timing window to produce the right knockdown. If done correctly, you'll get the same hard knockdown that slams them back as you would if you hit a raw twister on a standing opponent. If it's late, you'll get a ground hit, and no second twister is possible. You're looking for the first solid hit.
This depends on your position relative to the opponent before the launch. Generally, if you launch the opponent from the back, 2A BE will give you a head towards knockdown, and you need to use 8A+BB, rather than JFT to hit them (JFT tends to whiff on head towards knockdowns). I think ag:B produces a weird spinning launch where they might end up either feet towards (knocked away), or head towards (knocked straight down) after the 2A BE. Basically, try to react. If they get knocked away, JFT. If they get knocked straight down, 8A+BB.
Sometimes Alpha's finicky spacing issues require adjusting combos on the fly, but the head/feet towards can be reacted to, and the appropriate follow up can be selected.
Dragonfall
[10] Knight
Alright, thanks.
At what point can you buffer a 2143? I'm trying to do 214B+G into twisters, and I find that if I buffer too early, I get a twister that doesn't connect, and if too late I don't get one at all.
*Merged by Syn*
Also reminding posters to avoid double posts without good reason
At what point can you buffer a 2143? I'm trying to do 214B+G into twisters, and I find that if I buffer too early, I get a twister that doesn't connect, and if too late I don't get one at all.
*Merged by Syn*
Also reminding posters to avoid double posts without good reason