I was torn between putting that match at 7:3 or 6:4. From my knowledge of that matchup at this point Taki has no realiable way to get around bubble shield or to actually keep pressure on Algol enough for her to rack up much damage. Taki is able to punish Algol more than most though. For the most part I just don't see her winning this matchup without the Algol player doing something totally wrong.
Algol Character Matchup Discussion
- Thread starter Tiamat
- Start date
WARUI_NE
Prettier than you
she can roll under the bubbles
and A+K B which can put a hurtin on
algol wins but i dont think its 7:3
taki can't rack up damage period
and A+K B which can put a hurtin on
algol wins but i dont think its 7:3
taki can't rack up damage period
docvizzo
[14] Master
Algol not only dominates with Bubbles against Taki, his Backstep alone is enough to make it an easy win. Backstep BB rapes most of Takis options, i would give this matchup 7:3 or even 8:2. A+K B works in theory, but a smart algol player wont get hit from that too much...
Im more interested in Asta? 7:3 against Asta is very high, Bubbles are very risky, Astas B+K is one of the best Anti-Bubbles moves in the game, backstep is not too effective since he has bullrush and other longrange options.
Algols 1B is good against Astas throws, but very very linear...asta can get a lot of damage with 22B out of it...
So im really interested in why you see this 7:3....
Ans what does X have against Bubbles? Once again Backstep and Bubbles are very hard to beat by X, i would give this MAtchup 6:4 easily....
Im more interested in Asta? 7:3 against Asta is very high, Bubbles are very risky, Astas B+K is one of the best Anti-Bubbles moves in the game, backstep is not too effective since he has bullrush and other longrange options.
Algols 1B is good against Astas throws, but very very linear...asta can get a lot of damage with 22B out of it...
So im really interested in why you see this 7:3....
Ans what does X have against Bubbles? Once again Backstep and Bubbles are very hard to beat by X, i would give this MAtchup 6:4 easily....
LGInfinite
[09] Warrior
Whodat: I'm curious that you put Ivy at 4:6... I've always viewed this at pretty much even so 5:5. What gives her the edge?
- Thread starter
- #45
Tiamat
[11] Champion
what is asta's B+K? the jump move?
but yeah pretty simple, algol has an easy time staying out of asta's grab range. backdash is the big reason asta sucks in this matchup. bullrush is pretty useless against backstep G (too slow). algol's pokes, especially BB and 2B+K keep him far away enough on block that asta can't mix him up, and they are faster than the stuff asta has at midrange so it is easy to beat him out. his low pokes are also better and have more range.
X beats algol around her AA/1A far range (speed and damage on lows). iFC 3B is pretty nice against 4[A+B]s iirc. I think 5-5
PANDA
[13] Hero
how is Zas 4:6
- Thread starter
- #47
Tiamat
[11] Champion
it's not. whodat said 6:4 algol favor
docvizzo
[14] Master
B+K is a long ranged Attack Throw where Asta pulls the opponent at him and leaves Asta at +11 AND the opponent is BT to him. Since its an attack throw all bubbles disappear...
I dont get how Algols Backdash is effective against Asta and not against X...And i just wouldnt use Bubbles when Algol is in iFC3B range....
Imo there is no way its 7:3 against Asta and just 5:5 against X. Both Bubbles and Backdash are a lot more effective against X than against Asta.
And Xs AA is not something that is just a problem for Algol imo, i really have to disagree on these numbers.
Its 6:4 against Asta and 6:4 or maybe more against X. iFC3B is not the answer against Bubbles, i think every X player would tell the same.
Along with Taki and Talim X has the hardest time against Backdash/Bubbles of the whole cast imo.
I dont get how Algols Backdash is effective against Asta and not against X...And i just wouldnt use Bubbles when Algol is in iFC3B range....
Imo there is no way its 7:3 against Asta and just 5:5 against X. Both Bubbles and Backdash are a lot more effective against X than against Asta.
And Xs AA is not something that is just a problem for Algol imo, i really have to disagree on these numbers.
Its 6:4 against Asta and 6:4 or maybe more against X. iFC3B is not the answer against Bubbles, i think every X player would tell the same.
Along with Taki and Talim X has the hardest time against Backdash/Bubbles of the whole cast imo.
Okay. This is good. There is finally activity on the algol forum. Let me try to formulate my answers and hopefully it will help you to understand where I'm coming from or i might even change my numbers around a bit.
Algol vs Asta: Actually I was gonna explain this but Tiamat made a very good post about it in his Algol guide so just refer back to that for my answer.
Algol vs X: I understand what you all are saying about Algol's backstep vs. X, but you have to realize that X has one of the best walking speeds in the game. So it's really hard for Algol to actually space her correctly and be out of X's iFC 3B range. She can use that to trade with bubbles and still get a juggle off of it. Also she can punish him pretty decent. Even the things she can't punish she gets a mixup off of. X is actually one of the safest characters in the game if played right so Algol doesn't get a lot of free punishment there. Algol usually controls the pace of the match, but if X does get a lead it will be really hard from him to win if the X just turtles. Normally matches like that end in a lot of time outs. It's really not a fun matchup. The thing about it is that I think only an X that plays a poke and turtle style does well in that matchup.
X vs Ivy: This match is a toss up. I wanted to make it a 5:5 or maybe a 4:6. I think that in general it is a pretty even match. I gave Ivy the edge because she can actually play the range game with Algol, but she can apply pressure when needed. She plays both ranges really well. She has multiple answers for bubble shield and it's pretty hard to punish a lot of the stuff she does. Algol does get some pretty interesting juggles on her lol, but the ones in Oofmatic's combo vid will never happen in match. You can get the extended WS B juggle on her though. Spacing is a must in this matchup.
This is a recent tournamnet match that kind of explains where I'm coming from.
Algol vs Asta: Actually I was gonna explain this but Tiamat made a very good post about it in his Algol guide so just refer back to that for my answer.
Algol vs X: I understand what you all are saying about Algol's backstep vs. X, but you have to realize that X has one of the best walking speeds in the game. So it's really hard for Algol to actually space her correctly and be out of X's iFC 3B range. She can use that to trade with bubbles and still get a juggle off of it. Also she can punish him pretty decent. Even the things she can't punish she gets a mixup off of. X is actually one of the safest characters in the game if played right so Algol doesn't get a lot of free punishment there. Algol usually controls the pace of the match, but if X does get a lead it will be really hard from him to win if the X just turtles. Normally matches like that end in a lot of time outs. It's really not a fun matchup. The thing about it is that I think only an X that plays a poke and turtle style does well in that matchup.
X vs Ivy: This match is a toss up. I wanted to make it a 5:5 or maybe a 4:6. I think that in general it is a pretty even match. I gave Ivy the edge because she can actually play the range game with Algol, but she can apply pressure when needed. She plays both ranges really well. She has multiple answers for bubble shield and it's pretty hard to punish a lot of the stuff she does. Algol does get some pretty interesting juggles on her lol, but the ones in Oofmatic's combo vid will never happen in match. You can get the extended WS B juggle on her though. Spacing is a must in this matchup.
This is a recent tournamnet match that kind of explains where I'm coming from.
- Thread starter
- #50
Tiamat
[11] Champion
I gotta watch all these videos from mashfest on internet that doesn't suck soon XD
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
Agreed!!!
Astaroth bullrush and grab game get severely limited due to shield, backdash BB and in the worst case teleport.
Astaroth can only score hits mostly by careless bubble placement by the Algol player and hit with 22B, A+B or get somehow lucky and wallsplat so he can setup somewhat of a oki game.
Otherwise, Astaroth really struggles. Is kinda like a Dhalsim vs. Zangef matchup.
WARUI_NE
Prettier than you
mina vs algol is weird
khent said its hell for mina
i said its hell for algol
where should we put this?
whodat has 5:5
but it feels so much worse
khent said its hell for mina
i said its hell for algol
where should we put this?
whodat has 5:5
but it feels so much worse
Ok so here are some matchups.
vs voldo- Spacing, spacing, and more spacing. While reading the forum and talking to a few players I've come to the conclusion that this is supposed to be a hard matchup. I really don't believe that it is. In this match these moves should be used heavily 1A, 2A, BB (sparingly), 2A+B, and 2B+K. The reason I state these moves is because voldo traverses around bubbles very well. These moves will limit voldo's movement options and they also hit him out of his stances. If you limit the movement then you will be able to use bubbles to set up combos. Remember that voldo can be hit with the double bubble combo.
vs talim- You pray for this matchup. Algol out spaces, out pokes, out damages, and out classes talim completely. Algol's moveset really opens up in this match (well as much as it should open up). Talim should have a really hard time getting in and even if she does then Algol has ways to put her back out or out damage her up close. Unless you are unfamiliar with Talim in general or the player is just plain better than you then you shouldn't lose this matchup
vs mitsu- Mitsu is a high risk/high reward character so punishment is the key to this matchup. If you don't punish, Mitsu is going to eat you alive. With that being said, I believe this is a matchup in Algol's favor. There is a punishment list already so I'm not going to repeat it here, but punishing for max damage is key. Bubble shield is good because mitsu doesn't have many moves that have proberties that get around bubbles so he's forced to step. That is where Algol will be able to use his superior range to catch step and rack up damage. One thing to remember is that if Mitsu knocks you down he has a lot of tech trap options so sometimes it's better to take the ground hit and then get up.
vs Nightmare- I consider this to be one of Algol's harder matchups because of Nightmare's great step and Nightmare's ability to get retarded amounts of damage off of a traded bubble hit. Bubbles in this match shouldn't be spammed nor be predictable or you risk losing 50% health. Double bubble combos do work on him so that is a way to get great damage on Nightmare. Anything that Nightmare does that going into GS can be 2A on reaction. If you do that then you take away nightmare's ability to mix you up.
vs Sophie- The princess of punishment isn't really that hard of a fight if you can keep her at range. Poking should be what you want to do and it will work if you use Algol's great back dash. The thing that will hurt is once she gets in she can punish every low that she blocks. 66A+B at perfect at perfect range and 2B+K are your main moves that will push her back and allow youto backdash to get at range.
vs yoshi- Yoshi can be a troublesome character yet spacing him isn't as hard as it seems. Algol can out poke Yoshi at mid range while staying away from Yoshi's strongest moves and mixups. The moves that Algol can punish with WS B make this fight turn instantly in Algol's favor because Yoshi can be double bubble comboed. Watch out for Yoshi's unblockables because of a lot of them are fast and he has the highest # of unblockables in the game. Algol's lack of a good side step makes it hard to avoid them.
vs hilde- She's the bane of everyone's existance in this game save for a select few. To be honest I don't believe this is a bad matchup. Positioning is the key in this matchup. Because of her amazing side step ability, she has the potential to RO from any whiff. Algol has the unique ability to control large areas of the stage so bubbles at the right range are great. This should turn into a poking match and if it does Algol should win. If you get greedy you will pay a high price.
vs Amy- There are tons of arguments saying that Amy is a direct counter to Algol. I don't believe the hype, even though I have seen videos to the contrary. Yes, she is one of the fastest characters in the game and her B+K auto gi's bubbles. That should really work to her disadvantage. Bubbles us close are a no-no. If you do she will counter and launch you for good damage + wakeup. Mid-range is where you want to be when you shoot a bubble. Also, bait out the counter. Algol eats up whiffs with a well placed 3B, 1B, 11A, or even 66BA. Amy's amazing pressure and 50/50s make her difficult to block against so when you do block a mixup you should punish accordingly.
vs Raph- Suprising Raph out plays Algol at mid-range so I do believe that to win this matchup Algol needs to play an "in & out" type of style. What I mean by that is Algol will pressure from the inside for shourt periods then move out and poke a little past mid-range. Algol doesn't fear Raph's stances at all whenever you see one start you can aB, AA, or any other moderately fast move that the stance doesn't evade to interrupt. Patience is the key here.
vs Seig- My experience in this matchup is very limited, but this is a very winnable matchup. Seig has a very nice soul crush game so GI or really good spacing is key. I choose spacing rather than GI, but that may not work for you. 2B+K and aB are great moves to stop "dancing Seigfried" or a stance changing Seig.
vs Yoda- Why even bother with this matchup? The only time you're gonna even see this matchup is if you're playing Oofmatic. In any case just space out Yoda with BB, and 1A. When he gets in do 2B+K and 66A+B to push him out and work is crappy soul gauge.
vs Yun- If you don't know this matchup you may get soul crushed. Algol's lack of step and Yun's great crush game doesn't bode well for Algol. WIth that said, I am not saying this is a bad matchup at all. This is just one of the matchups that you have to play around with jus tto figure out what works best for you. I think the most common thing that Algol players will have trouble with is dealing with his stance. Using "A" moves or tracking moves stop the auto evade. The low from the stance is highly punishable so if you block that then it's combo time. Remember that bubbles actually work really well in this matchup because besides limiting movement it will stop a lot of his combos if placed right.
vs Cass- cass does so much damage off of the most simple things is rediculous. Tou counteract that you have to fight her at range. If you stay around the distance that you start the match there isn't much she can do. When she gets in you're gonna have problems so get her out ASAP by making her block 2B+K, 66A+B, or 4B A+B. If those moves hit you get either a knock down or good pushback.
vs voldo- Spacing, spacing, and more spacing. While reading the forum and talking to a few players I've come to the conclusion that this is supposed to be a hard matchup. I really don't believe that it is. In this match these moves should be used heavily 1A, 2A, BB (sparingly), 2A+B, and 2B+K. The reason I state these moves is because voldo traverses around bubbles very well. These moves will limit voldo's movement options and they also hit him out of his stances. If you limit the movement then you will be able to use bubbles to set up combos. Remember that voldo can be hit with the double bubble combo.
vs talim- You pray for this matchup. Algol out spaces, out pokes, out damages, and out classes talim completely. Algol's moveset really opens up in this match (well as much as it should open up). Talim should have a really hard time getting in and even if she does then Algol has ways to put her back out or out damage her up close. Unless you are unfamiliar with Talim in general or the player is just plain better than you then you shouldn't lose this matchup
vs mitsu- Mitsu is a high risk/high reward character so punishment is the key to this matchup. If you don't punish, Mitsu is going to eat you alive. With that being said, I believe this is a matchup in Algol's favor. There is a punishment list already so I'm not going to repeat it here, but punishing for max damage is key. Bubble shield is good because mitsu doesn't have many moves that have proberties that get around bubbles so he's forced to step. That is where Algol will be able to use his superior range to catch step and rack up damage. One thing to remember is that if Mitsu knocks you down he has a lot of tech trap options so sometimes it's better to take the ground hit and then get up.
vs Nightmare- I consider this to be one of Algol's harder matchups because of Nightmare's great step and Nightmare's ability to get retarded amounts of damage off of a traded bubble hit. Bubbles in this match shouldn't be spammed nor be predictable or you risk losing 50% health. Double bubble combos do work on him so that is a way to get great damage on Nightmare. Anything that Nightmare does that going into GS can be 2A on reaction. If you do that then you take away nightmare's ability to mix you up.
vs Sophie- The princess of punishment isn't really that hard of a fight if you can keep her at range. Poking should be what you want to do and it will work if you use Algol's great back dash. The thing that will hurt is once she gets in she can punish every low that she blocks. 66A+B at perfect at perfect range and 2B+K are your main moves that will push her back and allow youto backdash to get at range.
vs yoshi- Yoshi can be a troublesome character yet spacing him isn't as hard as it seems. Algol can out poke Yoshi at mid range while staying away from Yoshi's strongest moves and mixups. The moves that Algol can punish with WS B make this fight turn instantly in Algol's favor because Yoshi can be double bubble comboed. Watch out for Yoshi's unblockables because of a lot of them are fast and he has the highest # of unblockables in the game. Algol's lack of a good side step makes it hard to avoid them.
vs hilde- She's the bane of everyone's existance in this game save for a select few. To be honest I don't believe this is a bad matchup. Positioning is the key in this matchup. Because of her amazing side step ability, she has the potential to RO from any whiff. Algol has the unique ability to control large areas of the stage so bubbles at the right range are great. This should turn into a poking match and if it does Algol should win. If you get greedy you will pay a high price.
vs Amy- There are tons of arguments saying that Amy is a direct counter to Algol. I don't believe the hype, even though I have seen videos to the contrary. Yes, she is one of the fastest characters in the game and her B+K auto gi's bubbles. That should really work to her disadvantage. Bubbles us close are a no-no. If you do she will counter and launch you for good damage + wakeup. Mid-range is where you want to be when you shoot a bubble. Also, bait out the counter. Algol eats up whiffs with a well placed 3B, 1B, 11A, or even 66BA. Amy's amazing pressure and 50/50s make her difficult to block against so when you do block a mixup you should punish accordingly.
vs Raph- Suprising Raph out plays Algol at mid-range so I do believe that to win this matchup Algol needs to play an "in & out" type of style. What I mean by that is Algol will pressure from the inside for shourt periods then move out and poke a little past mid-range. Algol doesn't fear Raph's stances at all whenever you see one start you can aB, AA, or any other moderately fast move that the stance doesn't evade to interrupt. Patience is the key here.
vs Seig- My experience in this matchup is very limited, but this is a very winnable matchup. Seig has a very nice soul crush game so GI or really good spacing is key. I choose spacing rather than GI, but that may not work for you. 2B+K and aB are great moves to stop "dancing Seigfried" or a stance changing Seig.
vs Yoda- Why even bother with this matchup? The only time you're gonna even see this matchup is if you're playing Oofmatic. In any case just space out Yoda with BB, and 1A. When he gets in do 2B+K and 66A+B to push him out and work is crappy soul gauge.
vs Yun- If you don't know this matchup you may get soul crushed. Algol's lack of step and Yun's great crush game doesn't bode well for Algol. WIth that said, I am not saying this is a bad matchup at all. This is just one of the matchups that you have to play around with jus tto figure out what works best for you. I think the most common thing that Algol players will have trouble with is dealing with his stance. Using "A" moves or tracking moves stop the auto evade. The low from the stance is highly punishable so if you block that then it's combo time. Remember that bubbles actually work really well in this matchup because besides limiting movement it will stop a lot of his combos if placed right.
vs Cass- cass does so much damage off of the most simple things is rediculous. Tou counteract that you have to fight her at range. If you stay around the distance that you start the match there isn't much she can do. When she gets in you're gonna have problems so get her out ASAP by making her block 2B+K, 66A+B, or 4B A+B. If those moves hit you get either a knock down or good pushback.
WARUI_NE
Prettier than you
im convinced raph vs algol is tied
raph isnt really as vulnerable to algols back dash as other characters with his range
algol cant step worth a shit
and raph can deal with bubbles easily
raph isnt really as vulnerable to algols back dash as other characters with his range
algol cant step worth a shit
and raph can deal with bubbles easily
- Thread starter
- #56
Tiamat
[11] Champion
I still think algol beats raph 6-4 mostly due to better damage in general and better low pokes
KingAce
HERMITISM
Characters that don't lose to Algol's bubbles, usually just lose to just plain algol. In some match-ups you can never have enough bubbles(astaroth and talim). In other match-ups, bubbles are an annoyance, especially when they interrupt combos, for example hilde.
Since like I have said before I hardly ever use the shield. Well Mina just plain sucks, Nightmare is hella unsafe and is far from Algol's league.
And a good majority of stance dependant characters like Mitsu or Siegfriend...well there's teleport.
His tough match-ups are
Voldo, Amy, Hilde, Ivy, and Kilik and possibly Setsuka and Cervantes.
Personally I believe these are mostly 5:5 with the exception of Ivy and Amy.
For me there three characters I have to shield up against if I want to stand a chance at winning.
Amy, Hilde, and Astaroth.
Since like I have said before I hardly ever use the shield. Well Mina just plain sucks, Nightmare is hella unsafe and is far from Algol's league.
And a good majority of stance dependant characters like Mitsu or Siegfriend...well there's teleport.
His tough match-ups are
Voldo, Amy, Hilde, Ivy, and Kilik and possibly Setsuka and Cervantes.
Personally I believe these are mostly 5:5 with the exception of Ivy and Amy.
For me there three characters I have to shield up against if I want to stand a chance at winning.
Amy, Hilde, and Astaroth.
docvizzo
[14] Master
Asta has one of the best Bubble counters in the Game, Astas B+K catches Algol easy out of his bubble recovery, since its an attack throw all bubbles dissappear and it has very good range.
So i dont agree at all with the bubble use against Asta.
And playing a mid range-long range game against Sophie is pretty hard. If you try to shoot bubbles she is going to kill you with TAS B and will get a clash every time you try to space with Bubbles. Since Algol cant step shit TAS B i a extremely powerful tool against him, the move is even better against Algol than against the rest of the cast since he likes to be at a range which leaves him very vulnerable to TAS B~TAS B... the same goes for 66B~TAS B...
Sophie is a pretty tough matchup imo. 6:4 for Sophie, since Bubbles are suicid against her and she can punish his low pokes..
So i dont agree at all with the bubble use against Asta.
And playing a mid range-long range game against Sophie is pretty hard. If you try to shoot bubbles she is going to kill you with TAS B and will get a clash every time you try to space with Bubbles. Since Algol cant step shit TAS B i a extremely powerful tool against him, the move is even better against Algol than against the rest of the cast since he likes to be at a range which leaves him very vulnerable to TAS B~TAS B... the same goes for 66B~TAS B...
Sophie is a pretty tough matchup imo. 6:4 for Sophie, since Bubbles are suicid against her and she can punish his low pokes..
WARUI_NE
Prettier than you
I keep getting CF'd =/
KingAce
HERMITISM
Asta's B+K is a high and is slow, it helps but it doesn't make things easier for astorath. And usually works best when algol does 4[A+B] bubbles.