Appeal to Casual players, vistors/guests.

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KingAce

KingAce

HERMITISM
Please tune in for tournament streams and vods. If there’s one thing you can do for the community, this is it. When the game hits don't just up and leave because you've got what you wanted from 8wayrun. Why? You may ask. Yes, the competitive community can be very hostile and uninviting. However it does something very important for the series. Tournaments happen to be the one of the most effective forms of advertisement a gaming company can get. The exposure the game gets at these live events goes a long way in growing its popularity and boosting sales. It’s a great way to support the guys at Project Soul, and get Namco’s attention in continuing with the series.

Soul Calibur probably has the youngest player base of any fighting game. So the old formula of “support your community by traveling to tournaments” isn’t actually applicable for most of you. Going to tournaments and competing is the highlight of many competitors. Nothing really matches the atmosphere. And the relationships and interactions you have there are an experience all players hold very dear. It’s very addicting.

Quite frankly it’s a difficulty hobby to indulge for many. Due to money, time and real life circumstances. Many smaller communities have suffered greatly, because for a long time now this has been the only way to actually sustain the life of a competitive fighting game. And unless your community is big enough, it’s a formula that dwindles with time. Competitive gaming is a niche to begin with. So the traveling base is even smaller. For other competitive genres (RTS, FPS…etc) a large part of competition is done online. The FGC is one of the few that has sustained its self off offline gatherings for years now.

Next best thing is streaming. Streaming has done a lot for competitive gaming. Views for damn sure matter. Will continue to matter because of ad space. Yes, the inevitable thing that the FGC seems to be denying is E-sports. You don’t need a huge corporation like MLG to become an E-sports. You simply need an audience and a professional level. The sponsors will come. Views definitely help tournaments in getting sponsors, and this goes a long way to adding to the pot. Sponsoring players to get to said tournaments. And easing the burden of tournament organizers.

For the first major foreign Staracft 2 tournament of 2012, TwitchTv added an extra $5000 to HomeStoryCup’s prizes. TwitchTv was created specifically for gaming and the audience that watches it. If this doesn’t compel you to support you favorite fighting game in the comfort of your home, nothing will.

We need you to become a fan of competitive gaming. Tune in, get a favorite player or character and follow that player. The competitive community and single player minded community might have differences on how they play the game. But we share this one game, and in the desire to see it succeed. And this fact should be the common denominator that brings us together come tournament weekend.

So please tune and support our game.
 
I dont really think appealing to casual gamers is how to keep the tournament scene active. Thats why these message boards are kinda messy to begin with.

If anything, once the game hits the casuals will trickle in and out while everyone else is talking tier matchups and frame data. Appealing to the 2d community is how to keep the [THIS] scene active, as well as getting the other 3d communities active.

If SCV turns out to be at least a little standup, then we are good. This game has a good level of hype, I've even noticed some of the "dead" players in my local area poking their heads out to see in recent weeks.

Fuck casual players.
 
KingAce said:
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I've been reading your post constantly, so bare with me here.

Are you saying that casual players should be pushed into being tournament players?

If that's the case, then I can say that I honestly disagree on trying to "force" casuals, who are somewhat of a majority in the world, into being tournament players for fighting games, because not everyone wants to play competitively, nor study fighting games religiously with real-life in the way, which you did state.

However, forming small tournaments just to get the game some attention can actually be a good thing, especially for me, because lord knows how many fighting game fans I'm not discovering yet. Hell I need more friends. lol

I am more in the categorization of balancing myself by playing fighting games for its offline content, the visuals (I'm a visual artist), the music (I love listening to VGM music of course) and choosing one character in particular that I like, and work on any combos with this character (both offline, and sometimes online, when I have a Gold subscription). However, I am not the type of person that learns every characters strengths and weaknesses on my own if it's not provided in a training mode or strategy guides, which I do need to work on though. Casual, or tournament? Not entirely sure.

Probably why I liked VF4: Evo so much, because of their extensive training modes and trials, including strategies on characters vs. specific opponents. That's also why I can do so well in Virtua Fighter's quest modes, but not so much on other games. Other games did lack this type of training, and some still are lacking it, but are working their way there.

I could say that I don't have the time of day to study fighting games with education in the way right now, but with my career choice relating to video games in general, I figure doing so could be beneficial.

But back to the whole casual and tournament players, pushing many casual players into being tournament players is going to be a lot of work for fighting games, because as I've stated, many play for fun, and are not even caring about "frame data" and "tiers", compared to other games who have much more simpler approaches to playing competitively.
 
Humble ramble.

It's not easy to keep your mouth shut when an uneducated casual spouts of nonsense stuff to a hardcore player. But, it's generally easier if you just beat them to prove them wrong of their logic and wait for the moment when they really want to improve and help them. But many people including myself sometimes like to be coy and hostile to say STFU. Not only that, a casual usually is very timid, unsure, yet stubborn to ask for help. That's kinda why I strive not to be too rough on Casuals and will extend a hand if they shed the ego a bit and regain it by letting the pros help them meticulously.


Basically, you have to play "Father" by beating down of their logic on gameplay. But then turn around and be "Mother" to them if they really want it by extending a helping hand. If not, then leave them be. Some casuals want to be better for the sake of just being better than some scrub and known to be a hero(casual wanting to be hardcore). However, some just want to be better than their friends and maybe the best of online or so(casual). Like my neighbors for instance. They refuse to play me in SCIV because they just feel discouraged. I offered to help them, but they're generally too proud and prefer to beat me in other games to fix their ego. So I let them do just that since that's their "realm" and it's a party killer if you kick them while they're down......even when it wasn't your fault. Again, be "motherly and gentle" and wait when they really want it. I can take losses no matter the bs. They can't.


Generally, you can't force casuals to be extreme hardcore. But you can help them slowly like a coach and just have fun. I mean, I have some decent fashion sense in CAS when hardcore play is too much for casuals. So I guess if some Casual asked me for hardcore help, I'd try to help them out of empathy. If they want more of it, then I guess I need to start satisfying a child's voracious hunger to get better lol with help from you guys of course. Not only that, I can have a good relationship with a casual if they show me better fashion tips or so in exchange for helping them be more used to losing to get better. Not a bad trade imho. Tee-hee!


I want to appeal to casuals and at least reduce them being too stubborn to ask and help them if they wish it. If I gotta be a fashion freak(which I enjoy) to hold back my skill a bit, I'm all for it. So far though, I've noticed that I just get lots of likes just for being me. I guess Pocky Yoshi is like a Gengar........playful, childish, and devious. I don't want to sound conceited, but if I get offline one day for SCV, I'll show the discouraged casuals how to lose yet have fun with just.......well playing SCV and hanging around.

P.S. Pocky Yoshi says look at Hates speech and ask questions sometimes lol. Pocky Yoshi is not great at speeches lol.
 
Theres no hostility. This mindset just isnt realistic. its easier for them to live in a world where mashing buttons the hardest and the fastest guarantees you a win.

Casual players are so stubborn because the idea of learning to play breaks their will when they see the real limitations of playing by the system. You just arent going to be good at fighting game if you've been casual about them most of your life. If you dont have basic fundamentals and execution now...its just not worth it to stress how to play fighting games in general.

Like if you dont realize jumping is one of the worst things you can do *traditionally* in a fighting game that has no airblock your gameplan is destroyed.

I tried to teach my cousin UMvC3 for about a month. By the end of the month he realized that Vergil and Wesker are both DEAD after whiffing a hyper combo (he originally spammed them for chip damage) and that once I run out his X-factor or get the meter lead early on his chances of winning were dismembered. He cant grasp the idea of a 50/50 and he still doesnt get things like crossups, safe jumping, whiff punishing, clutch execution and baiting. He still cant do a basic air combo, much less any type of dragon punch or QCF motion... he just cant do it. A lot of casual players CANT. Part of it is because he's casual, the other part is because these fundamentals are compounded based on YEARS of experience.

They rather live in their ignorance, and with all the simple modes in FGs these days, whats the incentive to learn? The first thing a casual player will tell you is frame data and tier lists mean nothing to them. They want to play who they want to play how they want to play them, and by pulling them into the world of competitive gaming you slam all their notions and it turns them off.

So fuck em.

There are a small few who really want to learn, but those arent casual gamers, those are the young kids who thirst to get better. Theres no need to be inclusive to a group of gamers that are casual, they are why the FG genre has become so simplistic to begin with.
 
jtdam09 said:
I've been reading your post constantly, so bare with me here.

Are you saying that casual players should be pushed into being tournament players?

If that's the case, then I can say that I honestly disagree on trying to "force" casuals, who are somewhat of a majority in the world, into being tournament players for fighting games, because not everyone wants to play competitively, nor study fighting games religiously with real-life in the way, which you did state.

However, forming small tournaments just to get the game some attention can actually be a good thing, especially for me, because lord knows how many fighting game fans I'm not discovering yet. Hell I need more friends. lol

I am more in the categorization of balancing myself by playing fighting games for its offline content, the visuals (I'm a visual artist), the music (I love listening to VGM music of course) and choosing one character in particular that I like, and work on any combos with this character (both offline, and sometimes online, when I have a Gold subscription). However, I am not the type of person that learns every characters strengths and weaknesses on my own if it's not provided in a training mode or strategy guides, which I do need to work on though. Casual, or tournament? Not entirely sure.

Probably why I liked VF4: Evo so much, because of their extensive training modes and trials, including strategies on characters vs. specific opponents. That's also why I can do so well in Virtua Fighter's quest modes, but not so much on other games. Other games did lack this type of training, and some still are lacking it, but are working their way there.

I could say that I don't have the time of day to study fighting games with education in the way right now, but with my career choice relating to video games in general, I figure doing so could be beneficial.

But back to the whole casual and tournament players, pushing many casual players into being tournament players is going to be a lot of work for fighting games, because as I've stated, many play for fun, and are not even caring about "frame data" and "tiers", compared to other games who have much more simpler approaches to playing competitively.
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I don't know how you got that I was forcing or pushing casual gamers into becoming tournament players. What I talked about was tuning to watch tournament streams. You don't sacrifice a lot to do it, and it goes a long way in supporting the scene and the game.
 
They're timid and stubborn KingAce. Give it time lol. If they prefer to talk about story and aesthetic stuff, let them. I'll wait as long as they want if they for instance wish to get better gameplay wise. Until then, help me once we meet in battle online for some casual sparring.
 
KingAce said:
Please tune in for tournament streams and vods.
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I misread this line. I thought you were trying to sell me Video On Demand (vod) streams. You should fix that.

I like this thread, but I think it's a bit misguided. Things that keep games in the limelight aren't helping offshoot sites make money through advertising.... it's capturing the minds of individuals. That's exactly the reason MK and MvC3 made a killing - MK is OG and MvC3 let's Marvel fans smash up Ryu with Hulk.

Romancing stories and characters is just fine. SCIV is still played by a ton of people solely for the CaS system. It's a great "sticky" for a product.

Semi-spoiler:
The real story of SCV is going to be "Someone selected versus and then the announcer said fight." Then it's like a neverending "Choose Your Own Adventure" at meth pace.
 
Well, I do stand corrected, but this......
KingAce said:
We need you to become a fan of competitive gaming. Tune in, get a favorite player or character and follow that player. The competitive community and single player minded community might have differences on how they play the game. But we share this one game, and in the desire to see it succeed. And this fact should be the common denominator that brings us together come tournament weekend.
Click to expand...

........with the addition of Artilust's "fuck casual players" post, can be put into the assumption of trying to push casual players to become interested in the tournament scene, or competitive scene, for fighting games.

Not saying it's wrong to do, but, sadly, many casual players don't care that much, and doing so will be some work.

But needless to say, I've been watching tournaments myself, mainly because I want to see what Leixia can do in SCV before the game releases.

Supa said:
I misread this line. I thought you were trying to sell me Video On Demand (vod) streams. You should fix that.

I like this thread, but I think it's a bit misguided. Things that keep games in the limelight aren't helping offshoot sites make money through advertising.... it's capturing the minds of individuals. That's exactly the reason MK and MvC3 made a killing - MK is OG and MvC3 let's Marvel fans smash up Ryu with Hulk.

Romancing stories and characters is just fine. SCIV is still played by a ton of people solely for the CaS system. It's a great "sticky" for a product.
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I do agree with you there.
 
SC2_AI, I only read a few of your paragraphs (not a big fan of paragraphs) and I'm uncertain if I fully understand you here, but is the point of your thread to ask ppl to watch streams or any TV e-sports thingy regarding SC5 competitive play?

While I do appreciate what I think you're trying to do here, as Pocky-Yoshi suggested you've just gotta let time flow by.

Instead of jumping the big gun here start from the little things such as raising awareness in your local scene. Perhaps ask any tourney organizers in here for some advice.
 
The thing is that you're assuming that they think like hardcore players. You can't ask people to care about a competitive community when they don't even know the basics of the gameplay. Soul Calibur is famous among casual players because of how easy it is to win without actually knowing what you're doing, and there's people that only buy the game because of character creation, guest characters, they played it with a friend, etc, and don't really care about how to play the game properly because they can beat the AI or their even-worse-than-them-friends; And you the forums will be CROWDED of them by a few days after the release (in fact, it already started). About 75% of those people will be intimidated by the complexity and will just keep playing casually until they get bored of CaS. Then 15% will stay, but still play casually. And the last 10% will learn how to properly play the game, and those are the casual players who you may address this to.

Until then, good luck trying to get mashing noobs to even understand your wall of text.
 
Ultimately the casual gamer wishes they had the know-how and skill required to do the amazing things that all the hardcore fighting game nerds do with their eyes closed.

They already dont give a shit what any of us think, and thats why they rage quit online and never show up at tournaments.
 
I have been lurking on fighting game boards for the past month or two getting hyped up for SC5, been playing the SC series since II and finally decided to get serious about it, bought a stick, and was trying to find ways to check out my local scene (San Jose). This attitude of "Fuck casuals and Fuck noobs" makes me absolutely want to abandon any support. If you follow e-sports at all, not just FG's, they get huge because of the casual community supporting them and becoming interested and wanting to emulate the high tier players. Seems to me like KingAce and Pocky-Yoshi have the right idea and I would love to get tips and info from them but the general feeling I get is that I should just go somewhere else to be a noob. Not the best way to represent your community.
 
I think that if a player truly wanted to become a hardcore or tournament player, he or she would actively seek out help and be willing to be humbled by the training. I also think that a hardcore or tournament player would be willing to help someone if they came to them with a willingness to be humbled.
 
Half the problem is this:
We get so many low level players coming here straight from online mode, thinking they're hot shit when they don't know much at all and won't listen and then the ones that do find they haven't got a scene anywhere near them ~_~.
Ah well, SCV coming - optimism and all that.
 
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