Asta Match-up List

Sazayel

[08] Mercenary
Asodimazze said:
Asta VS Yoshimitsu : 6:4

It's been ages since I last posted here but my curiosity prevailed and I would like to hear your view on this match-up.

I fail to see why Asta would have the upper hand, although I admit, I lack practice against him in SCV.
Close quarter is clearly an uphill battle for Astaroth and the key may lie in his spacing. However I have some serious doubts about it being sufficient.
Still, your casuals against Happy seem to favor your opinion so I'm interested.
 

LP

Premium Member
Asta VS Viola : 6:4


That said, I play Astaroth in a different way from the other Astaroth that I've seen so I might have different ideas on the MUs.
I'm much more focused on GB and spacing and only do a few throws per match...it might be unusual but I think it works quite ok.

I'm pretty interested in why you think this. Viola vs. Asta is, easily, in my opinion, one of the worst matchups in the game (right next to Natsu vs. Nightmare) at quantifiable at about what I'd call 7-3. I can explain why if you want me to but I'm pretty interested in your opinion.
 

Asodimazze

[10] Knight
It's been ages since I last posted here but my curiosity prevailed and I would like to hear your view on this match-up.

I fail to see why Asta would have the upper hand, although I admit, I lack practice against him in SCV.
Close quarter is clearly an uphill battle for Astaroth and the key may lie in his spacing. However I have some serious doubts about it being sufficient.
Still, your casuals against Happy seem to favor your opinion so I'm interested.

Like I said before I'm not good about the MUs analysis! But I'll try again :)

I think the MU is slightly in Astaroth favour (maybe 5.5-4.5 instead of 6-4) because of:

- Higher damage
- Better GB game
- Better spacing; zoning Yoshimitsu is not too hard imho, much easier than zoning other characters like Mitsurugi, Cervantes or Algol.
I think he lacks of a good option to catch the backstep; even if he manages to get in my face, if I play patiently I can escape his pressure and keep on zoning him.
He might catch my backstep with 66k but this option is not very damaging and easily steppable, Imho using it it's really risky.

Astaroth has to pay attention about Yoshi's A+K which works really well against one of his best moves (66[K]), but a part from that I don't see many problems in this MU.

I'm pretty interested in why you think this. Viola vs. Asta is, easily, in my opinion, one of the worst matchups in the game (right next to Natsu vs. Nightmare) at quantifiable at about what I'd call 7-3. I can explain why if you want me to but I'm pretty interested in your opinion.

I shouldn't have written 6-4 and I'm going to edit my list as soon as I finish this post.
I used to think the MU was 6-4 for Astaroth, but I forgot what Sawazuma and Decopon told when talking with me and Rikimaru at WGC: Viola has a 240 combo against Astaroth. This surely change the MU so now I don't know how it is.
Without considering this killer combo, I would say that Astaroth has in his favour the range (zoning her is not a problem imho), the fact that Viola lacks a good whiff punisher, and 66kbe that upclose beats a lot of her moves.

That said, I admit that my knowledge in this MU is old, because the last time I played against Viola was in October.
What do you think about this MU?
 

LP

Premium Member
I shouldn't have written 6-4 and I'm going to edit my list as soon as I finish this post.
I used to think the MU was 6-4 for Astaroth, but I forgot what Sawazuma and Decopon told when talking with me and Rikimaru at WGC: Viola has a 240 combo against Astaroth. This surely change the MU so now I don't know how it is.
Without considering this killer combo, I would say that Astaroth has in his favour the range (zoning her is not a problem imho), the fact that Viola lacks a good whiff punisher, and 66kbe that upclose beats a lot of her moves.

That said, I admit that my knowledge in this MU is old, because the last time I played against Viola was in October.
What do you think about this MU?

Viola has ToD combos against most of the cast but a lot of them are, in my opinion, not very practical in every round of every match against every opponent.

Like you said, I can only speak from my own experiences but she has all types of things that just give Astaroth a bad day. Like you said, most people's approach to Viola is to try to space her out. But the fact is that Viola can at least keep you reacting to what she does from a full screen away with things like WO Orb: B+K, 2B+K, and 6B+K. And, basically, she can harass most of the cast from full screen much more than they can.

In my opinion, getting close to opponent's with Viola isn't the problem (so much as staying close). But, once she is close, Viola can pretty much frametrap Asta to death or make him do things he doesn't necessarily want to do. She can basically make everything that he does a choice between playing defensively, trying to interrupt her, or throwing. And, if he guessing wrong, he gets put into a high-damaging situation + put into her wakeup game. I feel like his only really strong out against Viola is 1B+K, but even that, along with most of his stuff that stops her, can be whiff punished with 44A+BE.

Speaking of 44A BE, it's almost completely spammable against him because of the above reasons (not to mention it completely kills and makes people not want to use 66K BE because it's an easy confirm to beat the armor). Most of Viola's pokes will lose to 66K BE, but almost all of them recover fast enough for her to JG the second hit and launch him for good damage as a punish.

Astaroth can try to keep Viola out but, like I tell most people, Viola doesn't really need to chase any character. With that, most of Astaroth's attacks have stupid long recovery when they whiff (allowing for either 8A+B + oki or 44A BE whiff punish).

This is just my opinion, but, yeah, I also practiced reacting to overuse of 22B (which can also be 44A'd).
 

Sazayel

[08] Mercenary
I'll just throw some ideas to answer you:

Asodimazze said:
- Higher damage
- Better GB game
- Better spacing; zoning Yoshimitsu is not too hard imho, much easier than zoning other characters like Mitsurugi, Cervantes or Algol.

I won't contradict you on that. Yet a zoning move Just Guarded by Yoshi equals a 66A+B which is quite damaging. A risk to ponder.

Asodimazze said:
I think he lacks of a good option to catch the backstep; even if he manages to get in my face, if I play patiently I can escape his pressure and keep on zoning him.
He might catch my backstep with 66k but this option is not very damaging and easily steppable, Imho using it it's really risky.

Of course, it is one of Yoshimitsu's weaknesses, however I don't remember Asta's backdash to be very good. His poor movement and lack of quick pushbacks make me question the possibilities of getting out of Yoshi's pressure.
Even though 66K wouldn't be my top choice as an anti-backdash you have a point, when it comes to this department Yoshimitsu is easily steppable and a 22B BE landing is a frightful sight.

Asodimazze said:
Astaroth has to pay attention about Yoshi's A+K which works really well against one of his best moves (66[K]), but a part from that I don't see many problems in this MU.

In Asta's favor I could add that the DNK doesn't work on him after aB+K (air hit).

As for punishment, Asta doesn't really shine. To punish FC3K he has to choose between poor and unreliable damage. 3B is almost free against him. Yoshi's sweep remains unaffected by 66K BE while it is one of his main tool to engage his offense. 3B+K and 4B can't be armored aswell, both of them being safe launchers (-4 and -2 respectively).
Yoshi on the other hand has solid grab punishment with (6K: 48dmg and KD or 4KB and FC3K for better wake-up), not to mention his ravaging CE which can act as a strong deterrent.

So, even if Asta has better damage, he has to work harder than Yoshi to get it.


MoopMoored2697 said:
Is it possible to counter Asta's 9B+K with Ivy's 6B8?

I think you don't have enough time to react to it, especially since you won't be expecting it as it is a very unusual move to be used outside of combos. But it is indeed possible.
 

Kakaroth79

[08] Mercenary
Unless you're playing the new SCV update where 66K BE isn't -2498498 on JG, then no.

what are you talking about?

when you activate the armor, the second bullrush recovers much faster.
it's around -15 on jg...

that's strange, you should have definitely known this
 

LP

Premium Member
what are you talking about?

when you activate the armor, the second bullrush recovers much faster.
it's around -15 on jg...

that's strange, you should have definitely known this

Oh. I see what you're saying. Even though I said that, I just read bullrush BE and JG and wasn't even thinking of the armor. My bad.
 

Asodimazze

[10] Knight
Sazayel, I see you have some good points!

The only things I would add are:

- It's true that Astaroth's backstep is not great, but if it's good enough to escape Yoshi's pressure or not is questionable. I never had problems with it but maybe the Yoshimitsus I fought didn't use the best setups to trap me.

- I don't think that Astaroth's punishers after a blocked FC3K are poor and unreliable. He can choose between:

1) FC3K for 31 damage; ROs, Wallsplat
2) 66KBE, 2a for 56 damage
3) 4KA+G/B+G for 32 or 68 damage. If you escape the throw he still gets decent damage and frame advantage

not so bad imho
 

Sazayel

[08] Mercenary
Fair enough, I never thought about 4K and 66KBE's damage slipped out of my mind.

The fact that grabs can be broken was what I meant by "unreliable".
It may be irrelevent in an actual match but I'd take the +25 guaranteed damage 66KBE grants you anyday, as it is one less potential 22BBE/CE.

Another aspect I forgot to mention was the whole RO/wall game. If it is one of Asta's main strength, Yoshi's potential is not to be taken lightly in this area. 1K (reverse RO), 214A (Side RO), throws or even 6K (side RO/wall) are just a taste of the tools he has to compete with Asta.
 

Age_of_Truth

[12] Conqueror
I lost the last game of my ft5 vs Skyll because he did me a Red Just guard on the last hit of the 6B (CH), 22K, 22B combo. Someone knows how this Just Guard can be done? I've tried 100 times and never got it. I know how to do Ukemi Just Guard but this Red Just guard looks impossible.
Nice casual results!

Darkslayer posted a video about the Red JG which you may have already seen. If Idlemind's explanation in the comments is correct, then it's a 1f just guard. I think that it might not always be possible, depending on the character state when 22K hits on the ground (down to timing and / or whether the opponent tried to tech) but I don't know. It could also be character-specific, so try testing with Mitsu first. And if Skyll did it, it was almost certainly intentional, so the best person to ask would be him (he's on XBL and soul.fr)
 

Asodimazze

[10] Knight
Nice casual results!

Darkslayer posted a video about the Red JG which you may have already seen. If Idlemind's explanation in the comments is correct, then it's a 1f just guard. I think that it might not always be possible, depending on the character state when 22K hits on the ground (down to timing and / or whether the opponent tried to tech) but I don't know. It could also be character-specific, so try testing with Mitsu first. And if Skyll did it, it was almost certainly intentional, so the best person to ask would be him (he's on XBL and soul.fr)

Thanks!
I've seen the video and it looks very similar to what Skyll did, but not exactly the same because the colour of his JG was totally red (it might be a bug).
I will ask Skyll to explain how to execute that kind of JG and copy here his answer.
 

Mavi

[08] Mercenary
Who is Astaroth worst matchup? Who makes it hard for him to play his game? I'm looking to pick up a secondary character just to face him, one of the guys I regularly face is amazingly good at Astaroth and I struggle a lot against him.
 

MKHSpartan

[12] Conqueror
Who is Astaroth worst matchup? Who makes it hard for him to play his game? I'm looking to pick up a secondary character just to face him, one of the guys I regularly face is amazingly good at Astaroth and I struggle a lot against him.
Pyrrha Omega and Alpha Patroklos both do quite well against him. But who do you normally play against him? You probably have a better chance practicing with your main versus Asta, rather than picking up a whole new character just for one counter-pick.
 

Mavi

[08] Mercenary
Pyrrha Omega and Alpha Patroklos both do quite well against him. But who do you normally play against him? You probably have a better chance practicing with your main versus Asta, rather than picking up a whole new character just for one counter-pick.

I main Raphael and Pyrrha but just can't seem to get a handle on him with them.