Astaroth Anti Strings/Frametraps via Bullrush BE

Discussion in 'Astaroth' started by IdleMind, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. IdleMind


    Greetings. Just stopped in to share some research. Gonna be working on this over the coming week.
    Feel free to contribute or add something for me to test. Will update this post as time goes on.

    The following is a list of strings and frametraps you can use the armor of Bullrush BE to absorb or just kill both options in some way. Many of these rely on good reads or good reactions, so be sure to keep sharp on defense and applying these can lead opponents to hesitate when attacking, opening up windows for you to command throw or apply other defense methods.

    66A (blocked) BE

    1K (hit) 66B
    1K (hit) 3B

    6B(blocked) A
    6B(blocked) aB
    66A(blocked) A (gotta be scouting this)

    WR AA(blocked) A
    WR AA4

    2A (hit) WR K
    1K (hit) WR K
    1A (hit) WR K

    WR B(blocked) B
    66B (blocked) B

    BB (blocked) B
    6BB(blocked) B (only do it to show off against scrubs)

    4A (blocked) B
    4A (blocked) A (trades)
    66B (blocked) EX (blockable) (only good for guard breaking)
    66B+KA (blocked) B
    3K (blocked) K

    6B (blocked) B

    1B (blocked) EX
    22B (blocked) EX
    66(A) (blocked)
    44B (blocked) B

    B(blocked)B (Blockable)
    B(blocked) (B)

    33A(blocked) EX (Blockable)

    2B(blocked)B (blockable)
    WR B(blocked)B
  2. Rikuto

    Rikuto [10] Knight

    Have some irony.


    66k (BE) block first hit.
  3. lolo

    lolo [10] Knight

    Nice, I've been using some of them from some time, I can add Nightmares 22AA_22AA6 and 33B BE... And also, is good against Algol's bubbles.
  4. Astaroth136

    Astaroth136 [09] Warrior

    Be sure to test high strings too. I've seen 66K BE revenge activate against highs on multiple occasions.

    I think there's a frame or two where the "revenge frames" activate before the tech-crouching frames.
  5. Rikuto

    Rikuto [10] Knight

    yea so apparently this move can result in up to 181 damage in open space versus certain characters (that i know of).

    That's pretty broken for an "offensive counter".
  6. Astaroth136

    Astaroth136 [09] Warrior

    Really? The most I can get is 169 from 66K BE (revenge), 22B BE, 28:B+G, and that's with a clean hit on 28:B+G.
  7. Rikuto

    Rikuto [10] Knight

    With just frame, clean hit, AND counterhit you will see 181.

    Not that 169 is anything to scoff at either. This damage is pretty much obscene for what the move is supposed to do. I don't see astaroth surviving the next patch, to be honest.

    People are going to be really pissed off come evo. I can't blame them either.

    This move is too good, and I don't mean that in a positive way. it's too good. It has too much utility, and too much payoff. Bad things are going to happen because we have this thing. Considering how much namco loves to overnerf characters once people start complaining, I have a real fear for the future.
    Xeph likes this.
  8. Tocool

    Tocool [09] Warrior

    Captain Bringdown and the Buzzkillers.
    Asodimazze and ShinJin like this.
  9. Inori DWF

    Inori DWF [10] Knight

    Inori DWF
    I'd like to add Yoshi 3AA (blocked) B

    Also I agree this move is a bit too brainless. Don't get me wrong I'll use it until they patch it out (if they, but this move is pretty much better than Amy B+K in SCIV.
  10. CyanST

    CyanST [06] Combatant

    Hey Rikuto, on what char are you doing that combo? i cant get 28:b+g to connect on small and mid chars, only ones i got to connect it was voldo, NM, Sieg and Asta.
  11. ShinJin

    ShinJin [09] Warrior

    i think it lands on maxi and mitsu also, maybe ivy and cervy, but no one smaller.
  12. CyanST

    CyanST [06] Combatant

    Hmmm ok, back to the lab i guess.
  13. Rikuto

    Rikuto [10] Knight

    This is what I've determined from my lab work yesterday.

    It is character model AND move specific, thus there are probably more instances than you are aware of. The full combo version will work on certain setups from voldo, nightmare, sieg, asta, maxi, cervantes (hella limited), ivy, zwei, aeon (this kills his 66b frame trap, by the way), Raphael (poor guy) and BELIEVE IT OR NOT MITSURUGI.

    I suspect algol probably works as well but I haven't found anything yet that will result in the correct positioning.

    Basically, astaroth has to "re-launch" his opponent with 22b(be) early in the animation of his opponent hitting the ground, right around the time of the opponents knee's contacting the earth. Doing this results in them launching a different direction, and getting more airtime. Taller characters animate slower when they hit the ground, and as well as having a wider hitbox makes our 22b(be) actually connect a frame or two quicker on them.

    Certain attacks that they will use make them take a step forward, increasing the distance between themselves and astaroth when he charges past them during revenge. This increases the time it takes to make 22b(be) contact, and thus screws up the special re-launch.

    Characters that have a lot of "stepping forward" attacks have this happen quite often, which is why its a pain in the ass against someone like cervantes who does a ton of sharp thrusting when he's coming at you. In nightmares case, you are better off being right up in his grill at the moment of armor activation if you want the special re-launch. In aeon's case, you seem to benefit more at medium range.

    Raphael seems to get fucked regardless of where you activate the armor. Him and Astaroth seem to be the only exceptions to the rule, personally I believe its because Asta is so goddamn fat he's mistaken flying through the air for floating in water, and Namco hates Raphael in general.

    An alternate way to achieve the same effect on smaller characters like leixia, natsu, or xiba is to let them hit the ground and try to hit them with 22b(be) as they tech. If they tech, you will get the increased re-launch height necessary for a titan bomb. If they do not, you get the standard 66b followup. This has much stricter timing, but if you do it right there is a 0% chance of them being able to guard it. On paper it is the best thing to do on these matchups, but this is not something easy at all.

    It is always worth mentioning that using 88b(be) will never result in the necessary height for a titan bomb, as well as doing a few points less damage overall. Don't go for it unless there is a ringout or wall involved.

    Try not to think of it like that.

    I'm sure some folks are probably miffed that this is out in the open before they can exploit it at evo, but the fact of the matter is this shit is broken. I don't say that lightly, ever. It's fuckin broken. We're talking about something that does similar damage to nightmares seldom-seen full charged counter-hit CE, but only requires 50% meter if you fuck it up so there's kind of an insurance policy out on it.

    I highly encourage everyone to use it of course, it's just that I'd rather it get a silent fix early on and save the character than enrage the masses before its too late and watch Astaroth get taken to the shed. I'm in this for the long haul.

    Besides that, asta mirror matches just got even more dumb. First person to block a 66k(be) wins the round since you can activate the armor on reaction.
  14. CyanST

    CyanST [06] Combatant

    Seems that you can use 66k BE against Pyrrhas BB, The first hit triggers Revenge, and the second Whiffs asta.
  15. Astaroth136

    Astaroth136 [09] Warrior

    I just witnessed this for the first time today in a match. Pretty hilarious.
  16. CyanST

    CyanST [06] Combatant

    Just happened again vs Natsu's BB. mitsus and lexias stop me tho, ill check later with other short ranged BBs.
  17. Srayer

    Srayer Keep Fighting


    On the negative side, the 2nd hit is relatively easy to JG if you block the 1st hit, and it's very punishable at -23. But the risk/reward ratio is still skewed pretty heavily in Asta's favor.
  18. Astaroth136

    Astaroth136 [09] Warrior

    Not to mention that the revenge version does have startup and can be blocked sometimes.
  19. ShinJin

    ShinJin [09] Warrior

    yeah i can't see it getting nerfed, you still take the damage and you can block the bullrush alot of the time, and on block it's a free JG, yeah it's really good but for a BE move it's pretty fair when you look at stuff like natsu's 66B~BE mitsu's 2K BE and viola's 44AA~BE
    AlphaKEG likes this.
  20. Slade

    Slade [14] Master

    Lord Slade
    Out of the three you listed, only 2KB BE is actually good. Natsu's 66B BE is mid/high, so it's a free punish when you duck the second hit. 44AB BE is easily GIed out of if she doesn't hit confirm it.
    With Asta's 66K BE you can attack at disadvantage, beat out Siegfried's 3B (for example), and launch for 160+ damage. It's pretty ridiculous.

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