Astaroth Matchup

After extensive play with Astaroth, having an offline sparring partner who plays Astaroth, and being a friend of Xeph's, I have to say without a doubt that this matchup is Nightmare's worst matchup.

In SC4, NM had ways around Astaroth, but now he has pretty much nothing to stop bullrush. Its all about zoning, picking your movement carefully, and taking potshots when you get them.

JG is your best friend. JG/step every thing you can. 44(a), 4(b), 3ka/(a), ab, bb6 (step to his left), 66kBE, 1aa, all of it.

Up close, 66k will beat both 3ka and 3k(a). At a distance, your best bet is to JG.

If you get knocked down (after bullrush or something similar), instead of teching left or right, tech forward or backward. This way, you have time to step, interrupt, GI, or JG his 22B oki. He doesn't have a lot of scary tech traps this time around, thank goodness. After getting hit with bullrush BE though, tech to the side. He has tech trap options, and 22b is a force block regardless.

His step kill is insane, so you have to pace yourself. Your step kill is good, but bullrush can eat it alive.

Don't go into stance, except to punish a whiff or something. His bullrush and bullrush BE absolutely demolish NM's stances.

Basically poke, grab, JG, move correctly, and work that guard guage. The fact that he can punish blocked 1ks sucks so much, but at least its a 50/50 if he does.

Twitch duck a bunch too. It might save you from eating a random CE or B grab. Do it right, and bullrush won't hit you.

Also, FYI, don't break his 1a+g/b+g pickups. If you do, Astaroth gets a free bullrush BE. Better to let him just get the +10.
 
Xeph is probably the best Astaroth player currently in NA. That said I watched your fights with him DIME, and as an Astaroth player I had a huge grin on my face. Because while I know the struggle you're going through, I also play Astaroth and the basic principle here is to smash you like a bug.

And really that's the philosophy with this matchup both in 4 and 5. Astaroth wants to exact his dominance and NM must do everything to stop that pressure. It's a cat squeezing the life out of a mouse underneath it's paw.

Astaroth wants to be in grab range, because here he has free mixups, when you duck in anticipation of his throws. Even if you twitch duck, it won't save you from his mids. And really he's only looking for a couple of throws to land the pay off is always big. Going for JGs at this distance is also risking eating throws.

NM has to keep him away. And you do this by not simply standing at mid range, you have to maintain that distance with 4K, 2B, 3AA, FCB. And you have to risk both 22B and 22AA. He can crouch grab punish 22B and 22AA is 66BE punishable, but you can still mixup with 22A step etc. 22B is good for anti bullrush at range, and 22AA is good for space control. Also it's important that you step to cover bullrush, despite how good Asta's anti step is.

Asta's 66K Outside of basically punishing most of your stance transition, is used to get in throw range. That's really the main purpose of it even when it lands. Use 4K and 2B to mitigate this. 4K has push back and is safe, and 2B on hit can lead to flapjack mixups.

Up close you got three options, none of them are full proof, but you have to take risks so...66K is a good tool to interrupt Asta's mids while TC throws. Ducking in anticipation is a double edged sword, but it must be done. The next best thing is sidestepping, which covers a large majority of Asta's mids. You have to commit to breaking throws however.

You have to throw a lot. And I don't mean flapjacks...because of bullrush generally NM players tend to throw less against this Astaroth. But throw/mid is your biggest mixup. B+G throws him out of his range, and A+G speaks for itself.

Things you can counter. After Asta's 6K on NH, NM 33K will cover a number of his throw/mid options.
3KB 3K(B) up close you can 66K, at a distance you can backdash. Still you could JG.
66KBE is steppable, it's a must that you're able to step or JG it.
Ideally you want to step the second hit of B6B. Since JG doesn't give you much of anything.

On Asta's wake options, I generally I say mixup by staying on the ground and WRB from wake up.

There's nothing easy here. You have to take risks to slow down his momentum, and build upon bread crams you get during the fight...NM has the damage output.
 
DIME i think you have to dumb down your NM gameplay. You aren't punishing his long range whiffs (easier said than done) and I believe you have to commit more to your own mix-ups. I saw hesitancy throughout your matches. Don't even bother to normal step imo, QS is everything with Nightmare.

I recently believe that Safemare is now impossible so commit fully to your offense. I think Thermidor has the right idea when playing Nightmare (even keev doesn't seem to understand this), commit to your offense; let your opponent fuck up to your mix-ups. Ignoring mid-throw also is stupid imo, you have to keep option to throw out there even if the throw damage now is piddly. 4K BE is a very underrated interrupt (don't even bother with 4KK, 4K BE is better in every way) on minor positive.

Why has everyone shied away from 3AA and 22AA as a step killer/counter-hit punisher/mix-ups recently? I know they are Jgable but they are both hit confirmable and still are very strong. Also against a defensive stepping opponent, 1A is a great long range step killer and a great whiff punisher due to the amazing wall carry. When i start playing seriously again (when the next tourney rolls around), Im going to put serious practice into having automatic 33B at long range too; the range on that is still insane and catches backstep extremely well (Thermidor catches KDZ with it a couple of times in his match).

At max range 33B/1A should punish any whiff by Asta step killers. Asta is a sitting duck when he whiffs at long range. Maybe use 44B/ ( B ) more in mid/throw mix-up. Not done research on it but if its anything like SC4, he does not have answer for it. Random 6K also works to slow down his throw game.

Also work on your wake-up game, NM's wake-up game might be one of the best in the game and the best part is its all safe. 66B and GS B track opposite sides and you can throw in 1A in there as well. If they stand up and block, GS fakes into WS B, GS B, FC 3B and flap-jacks.
 
Yeah, I was playing extremely defensively. I was scurred shitless.

Hell, there were a few times he whiffed a mile away, and I didn't want to use 33B because I wasn't sure if he'd be able to block in time, meaning I'd eat a bullrush. Normally, I give no fucks but Xeph knows what he's doing.

I know anti-astaroth pretty well. All though I didn't learn I could hit confirm 66k into GSA if it sets off the bullrush BE till AFTER my matches with xeph.

I guess I could have used more 3aa and 22aa, but like I said, i was playing defensive. Next time I plan to play aggressively, so I'll see where that gets me.

Thanks Kingace and Engared, your guy's advice will really help.
 
DeathInMyEyes said:
Yeah, I was playing extremely defensively. I was scurred shitless.

Hell, there were a few times he whiffed a mile away, and I didn't want to use 33B because I wasn't sure if he'd be able to block in time, meaning I'd eat a bullrush. Normally, I give no fucks but Xeph knows what he's doing.

I know anti-astaroth pretty well. All though I didn't learn I could hit confirm 66k into GSA if it sets off the bullrush BE till AFTER my matches with xeph.

I guess I could have used more 3aa and 22aa, but like I said, i was playing defensive. Next time I plan to play aggressively, so I'll see where that gets me.

Thanks Kingace and Engared, your guy's advice will really help.
Click to expand...
Of course the general idea of Astaroth is to scare you shitless. That's what we aim to do. The moment you're scared it really doesn't matter how good you are, you're dead. I know very well those 3-0 matches happened because his throw game was already in your head.

Take it from me I play Astaroth, and I play NM so I understand both worlds clearly.

We can talk specifics all day, but the right mindset to have is rage. Throw caution to the wind. And just play your game.
 
Engared said:
Why has everyone shied away from 3AA and 22AA as a step killer/counter-hit punisher/mix-ups recently?
Click to expand...

They have an allergy to winning? hell if I know. 22A variations is basically his best move

nah but seriously I kinda get why people aren't using those as much now but I think you just have to embrace the fact that when you play nightmare in this game you're not gonna be doing "solid" stuff it's all bullshit. it's just that it is very very good bullshit
 
whew Asta is a tough matchup for nightmare...pretty much why I use cervantes on him :/
 
For me the hardest part of this fight is his TC on 66k. Most of Nighty good moves are high and it kills them bad. So try reversing the table with your own 66k/throw mixup. Your 66k is faster than his and it will really hurt his throw game with the TC. Once he starts respecting this move then it open up your iaga, 3b, throws, 66b, 4k BE and 22/88b moves. When he's in your face be prepared to twitch duck while mashing the correct break on his strongest throw option (WS/Ringout). WR B can be a good option if he knocks you down since asta loves his (4)b on wakeup. Remember Asta isnt good at punishing so your whole arsenal is available to you in this fight when at frame advantage. Don't use NS stance unless it's to cause a whiff after your 1k.

This is my own methods for dealing with the brute lol so if it helps great.
 
Pernicious-Soul said:
For me the hardest part of this fight is his TC on 66k. Most of Nighty good moves are high and it kills them bad. So try reversing the table with your own 66k/throw mixup. Your 66k is faster than his and it will really hurt his throw game with the TC. Once he starts respecting this move then it open up your iaga, 3b, throws, 66b, 4k BE and 22/88b moves. When he's in your face be prepared to twitch duck while mashing the correct break on his strongest throw option (WS/Ringout). WR B can be a good option if he knocks you down since asta loves his (4)b on wakeup. Remember Asta isnt good at punishing so your whole arsenal is available to you in this fight when at frame advantage. Don't use NS stance unless it's to cause a whiff after your 1k.

This is my own methods for dealing with the brute lol so if it helps great.
Click to expand...
In practice....Astaroth's bullrush is safer and covers more range, NM's 66K isn't safe and it's bullrush punishable. The bullrush on hit sets up Astaroth for his throw/mid game. There's no way around this on NH. You have to commit to either breaking the throws or risking eating his mids twitch ducking won't help you here. Usually you have to commit to something if you get hit by his mids. Twitch duck only really works at neutral positions, and isn't really full proof a method, I recommend 66K here.

Most of Asta's anti step are highs, but he also has 44A, AB and 66A and of course throws.

I really don't know for what purpose you would use Aga in this match-up it isn't really reliable considering bullrush. And unlike NM who needs to step, Astaroth doesn't really need to step against NM, he is rushing down or backdashing.

Astaroth is very efficient at punishing NM, that's one of the disadvantages coming into the fight.
 
KingAce said:
Of course the general idea of Astaroth is to scare you shitless. That's what we aim to do. The moment you're scared it really doesn't matter how good you are, you're dead. I know very well those 3-0 matches happened because his throw game was already in your head.

Take it from me I play Astaroth, and I play NM so I understand both worlds clearly.

We can talk specifics all day, but the right mindset to have is rage. Throw caution to the wind. And just play your game.
Click to expand...
Dude, absolutely this. I love the mindgames in this matchup, they make you have to really fight like the characters you are playing.
 
KingAce said:
In practice....Astaroth's bullrush is safer and covers more range, NM's 66K isn't safe and it's bullrush punishable. The bullrush on hit sets up Astaroth for his throw/mid game. There's no way around this on NH. You have to commit to either breaking the throws or risking eating his mids twitch ducking won't help you here. Usually you have to commit to something if you get hit by his mids. Twitch duck only really works at neutral positions, and isn't really full proof a method, I recommend 66K here.

Most of Asta's anti step are highs, but he also has 44A, AB and 66A and of course throws.


66k GS on hit GS A beat bullrush and bullrush BE.
Iaga is good in any match. U just use it in right situations, even blocked he has nothing to beat out 66k or your 4k BE afterwards if he tries to attack.
While twitch ducking isn't full proof it can disrupt his throw game occasionally leading to WR B NS aB.
Also 1a GS on hit GS will beat out bullrush as well.
Again it's a hard matchup but this is how I fight him.
Asta can't punish 66k with bullrush or even 6k. 66k is only -15, bullrush is 18 frame fast, 6k is 17.
Only thing Asta can really punish is NS. Other than that he reduced to K for punish which is chip damage
or throw attempt.







I really don't know for what purpose you would use Aga in this match-up it isn't really reliable considering bullrush. And unlike NM who needs to step, Astaroth doesn't really need to step against NM, he is rushing down or backdashing.

Astaroth is very efficient at punishing NM, that's one of the disadvantages coming into the fight.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back