Attack guide

tresto: Well a lot of people think Asta is high tier now actually, largely because he's a convenient counterpick for Hilde and Kilik, two of the best characters (hilde is more debatable but he certainly beats kilik).

belial: I don't agree about not doing 6BB to punish stuff in favor of doing a mixup, she's got plenty of options when that hits. Lots of 6BB punishes are outside her throw/2B+K range anyway so you're not exactly giving up a great mixup for punishing.

also keep in mind that 6BB works as an anti step in a lot of situations and that it will beat FC As after 1A hit, thing is pretty bogus

thugish: Hates says he can see 2B+K on reaction and the norCal players seem to agree that at least HE can...but that would be an extreme minority
 
tresto: heh, I saw that coming. That average damage, of course, includes damage from punishment on block et cetera. Ah yes, I think Asta is top tier.

Tiamat:
Maxou: Amy has lots of options post 6BB!
Belial: Yes those are stepped with step~G
Maxou: in depth bla bla
Belial: in depth bla bla
Tiamat: Amy has lots of options post 6BB!
Belial: ...

No TC frames on FC 2A is common knowledge. 6BB is better steppable to the right, however it is more difficult to do this at point blank. It is completely steppable post 6BB still, at any range. It is also steppable by rcc step right after 1A, but some characters have FC options that go through 6BB, like mitsu FC 1B (for 81 dmg). I believe theres no point discussing something as obvious I've already considered and re-considered. Not even sure why you brough this up in the first place.

It is also a bad manner to speak for other people.
 
Thanks for your comments Tiamat, it's nice to have more people give their opinion on the topic.
Asta was maybe not the best example, since he actually is very strong. Just wanted to make a point that it's not only his raw damage output that makes him strong, but more the fact that he has combined power, range, size properties that break hilde's doom combo, safety, and is actually faster than people may think.
But anyway, SC4 being more balanced than the other SCs you can still win with a mid-tier or even mid- (current FR no 3 player uses Nightmare ...), since as long as you don't pick Rock or Mina, it's more about player skill than character strength.

Now lets get back to Amy, this is not the Astaroth topic after all ^^.


I agree with what you say about 6BB punishment, most of the time you're slightly out of range for 2B+K and throws so who would ever be scared of 16dmg 1A vs. 55 to 65dmg launchers ? So just take your free 6BB, maybe then a 1A and try to get more ^^

6BB beating FC moves isn't possible. Did you pick up on the fact that 2A, even though it finishes at FC, usually doesn't have TC frames ? A move that has TC frames before i11 (speed of 6BB) will definitely not get hit. Such as Asta's bullrush. Maybe I'm wrong but if so could you please provide an example ?

I think the "mind game" post 1A is :
- do 2A (catch step, beat TC moves under i15 which is mostly everything except another 2A)
- do 6BB (partly catch step, beat anything that isn't TC or better than i12 - meaning except for Yoshi/Taki AA and iMCF ... about everything)
- step
- another 6:6B/1A/2B+K mixup if people learn to not try to CH after 1A (usually happens after I do 6BB/2A a couple times)
- ... ?

Anyway that's way I do it. Anything else ?
 
The mind games you can get post 1A can vary pretty drastically on the character that you've got. As Belial mentioned, Mitsu's FC 1B will murder any attempt at using 6BB. Other characters, like Taki, are fast enough that after 1A hits, they've got you on the back foot, whereas others like NM don't have quite the same sort of options. I'm also cautious about using Amy's 2A too much, it's fast, which is great, but it's range doesn't seem quite as long as I would like. For instance, it doesn't seem to have the range of a 2A like Cass' or Mitsu's.
 
LGinfinite: I think post 1A hit NM gets a decent mixup FC A_B+G / WS B.

Tresto: FC 2A (all characters) doesnt TC, since 1A leaves opponent in FC, Amy 6BB beats 2A.
 
nightmare ? but WS B is i16 and FC throws are i22, so 2A beats everything but jump moves for him. therefore the mind game would be more FC throw / jump move...
 
yeah 2A beats both of those NM moves

Amy only loses out to some characters after 1A hit if she insists on attacking/continuing pressure. Because they are in FC and she's not, she can sidestep or backstep WAY faster than the other character can, not to mention having access to a ton of interrupts and evasive moves like B+K, 44B, A+K, etc.
 
To Belial : I've been wondering WTF this is not the mindset to win with Amy. About your comment :

"What I was saying that you might want to forego this risks and miss the astounishing extra 10 damage from 6BB punishment and just mix up regulary instead."

While this is completely valid with Mitsurugi, it's not the same with Amy. A real "mixup" would only be possible if Amy could get some mean damage from a low. But she can't : 2B+K, 6:6B is only 34dmg, and 1A is 16dmg. Amy is about eating up your opponent's lifebar bit by bit, every time you can. That includes punishing. BTW 6BB is 15dmg, not 10.

Today I played in a session with different level players. Some were FR top10, others were more medium-level.
When the top players won matches (I also won some, meaning playing Amy in that way *does* work), it was by nearly never ducking, and simply dealing more damage than I did.

I played a medium-level player a bit later, and he tried to guess when I'd do 1A / 2B+K and punish me for it. While he did block some and punished them, he got litterally raped with not much effort on my part. Eating a launcher instead of chip damage is hard ... Because he didn't know how to play vs. Amy.

Hope it shows more my point of view on Amy how to play her ^^
 
Tresto: You should really add stuff like that to your first post, instead of educating me. Also I've posted some info on amy tech traps before that you should add too. Or add some of your own, if you think I'm wrong. B/c right now tech trap part is somewhat empty.

But just in case. Mitsu 2KB is 29 dmg (with ukemi, without it its 34~36 if you go for wakeups), MST KB is 34 dmg.
2B+K - the 34 dmg that sets up amy strong wakeups is very good. basically dealing 2/3 of damage her mid moves do. You should still try to do what I suggested, maybe it will give you new ideas.
 
Just read this new guide.
You forgot some things, like, for ex her RO game staple
2B+K, 236K:A escapable by side tech left
2B+K, 44B (tech all) into 6:6B, 66B+K~236K:A

I actually have a complete guide to beating amy including most setups etc on my home PC, It may take some time to translate and re-do this into a guide on _playing_ Amy. maybe I'll do this during weekend if I have time and post it.

PS: btw 6BB is +2 not +4 on hit.
 
thank you very much for your contributions belial. a translation of your guide would be very much appreciated.
i'm still convinced that Amy should go for 6BB punishment anyway (since she can do it - mitsu sucks at punishing), people are very scared to attack after such a fast hit. I will include your setup in the guide as an alternative way to deal with 6BB punishment.

By the way, 2B+K is only possible upclose, if only 1A can hit instead of 6BB, then 6BB is better because it gets you closer to opponent and you keep advantage

I also feel that mitsu's tech traps + mind game setups are much more scary, and I believe that some of his stance things lead to much more than 34dmg if they begin on CH (even if first move is a low). could you confirm ?

i will be adding some more stuff, including her RO game with 236K:A
 
added RO stuff.
next will be tech traps (i have to test them all ; i'm not a big tech trap guy so i don't know them well except for the basic stuff)
 
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