Balance Patch Discussion

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@Belial, since there are many players who complain, why don't you add "I don't want any patch" to the possible answers in the community vote thread?
 
Ok. I still get the impression that you didnt care. So why waste my time on a thread i wont be heard in?

Rather thats what you meant to imply or not. Its what i took from it.

Opinion not changed. But what does it matter? Im not a high level tourney player. Remember?
 
WARUI_NE said:
I was the only person to even mention buffing aeon and my post was ignored.
That's not the problem though most of these changes are awful. Nerfing characters into oblivion just makes for shittacular lame ass characters like sf4.
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You were not the only person to post Aeon buff, I also got a couple of PMs.
Sorry, but I tried to include generalization and your generalization were I guess, worse frame data for many moves. I agree I sort of missed that out. I am sorry for this. I can only explain how much work was there to be done. I actually now wish I could have cut more, b./c 66 long poll is still too much.
 
HRD: You and Lobo both are a brilliant people:
Its in your best interest that your voice is heard. Yet you SAY NOTHING as long as you CAN. But now its over and you start your crusade against me sayin you were denied.
Grow up.
 
TerminatorCortez said:
Belial personally I think, we should just leave the balancing to namco and start asking for changes after Evo.
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Maybe you are right. but a lot of people are quitting right now b/c of disbalance, including many top players of the world who were with the series throughout sc2-4 and I dont want this happening.
Anyway its a bit to late to discuss the poll is started. If I get enough negative comments or a bad feedback I might cancel it.
If many people feel like Lobo and HRD does please let me know. If there are really so many offended by how it were handled and think results are biased I will stop the thread.
 
wtf....

all i did was post an opinion. why am i even in this debate?

belial, top players aren't quitting because of character balance lol. they are quitting because the skills that they honed such as reacting to lows and calculating frames and controlling tight space...are now all all irrelevant. they have all been replaced by anticipation/reads/yomi/whatever you want to call it. that is a huge issue that needs to be addressed but gets hushed over and over again. top players will pick a character and adapt. what you can't adapt to, though, is the skills that you practiced for years suddenly being useless and replaced by paper/rock/scissors.

sc5 is an excellent game, but it is very very different. nobody can deny that. it requires a completely new and foreign skill set to excel. no amount of nerfing the cast into oblivion will change that. it is what it is. we deal with it and play, but you can't lure people back with nerfs or balance changes, when balance isn't why they left in the first place.

oh the threads have been merged...

*looks at first post*

*goes away due to being unwelcome*
 
Belial said:
HRD: You and Lobo both are a brilliant people:
Its in your best interest that your voice is heard. Yet you SAY NOTHING as long as you CAN. But now its over and you start your crusade against me sayin you were denied.
Grow up.
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It was implied that i wouldnt make a difference anyway. So my choice to "grow up" is null and void.

So why waste my time in your thread when i had up and ready in the maxi SA that was on the same track. Ill submit my on list to someone who gives a shit
 
HRD said:
It was implied that i wouldnt make a difference anyway. So my choice to "grow up" is null and void.

So why waste my time in your thread when i had up and ready in the maxi SA that was on the same track. Ill submit my on list to someone who gives a shit
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Amen. How about a rematch HRD? we had that pending
 
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Belial said:
Maybe you are right. but a lot of people are quitting right now b/c of disbalance, including many top players of the world who were with the series throughout sc2-4 and I dont want this happening.
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I am agree with this statement. Most of players in Spain are angry due the disbalanced created by this patch. They still plays, but is not as it was before this patch... how i can put it in words.... before this patch, SC5 was "brutal" and "quick" : if you do a mistake, you got a several punish from everyone. Now, some characters could kill you with +/- 8 hits (No BEs necessary) as happend in SC3 but others chars needs around 12 hits with 1 BE to do the same amount of damage. Is this "fair" i don't think so. This game was very well balanced before this patch, now, the disbalance comes from the buffs for some chars which were good in the previos patch, making them HIGH/TOP and the nerf of the "good" characters in the previous version to make them MID/LOW.

In this version, some characters have a lot of difficulties to make a comeback than others to win from 0 - 2 when in the previous version, this was more balanced and happened often.
 
Sadly I couldn't hold on despite me not being a well known player I already left...but anyway I hope this thread doesn't fall seems like it to me. And to belial I think it's best to wait after EVO if anything viola should of taught us something....remember the time she got buffed but then NO ONE did or knew the potential of her 6B+K and 4AA BE. That main reason is why I think it would be best to wait after EVO. I think this thread should stay open.....but as for you sending results I think it's best if u did that after EVO.....well my 2 cents on it.
 
Kyo-1 said:
This game was very well balanced before this patch
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Just goes to show that knee-jerk balance patches are the most retarded thing ever.

Tiers can and will change even years after release. I remember when Blazblue CT came out and Carl was considered the worst character in the game. Many months later it turned out he actually had some good stuff and on top of that an infinite combo. By the time CS was around the corner he was like top4.

Just imagine if there would have actually been a week-4 patch that gave him mad buff's on top of what people were already sleeping on.

It's better to just let the game evolve instead of messing around with it when people probably don't know even most of it yet.
 
Kyo-1 said:
I am agree with this statement. Most of players in Spain are angry due the disbalanced created by this patch. They still plays, but is not as it was before this patch... how i can put it in words.... before this patch, SC5 was "brutal" and "quick" : if you do a mistake, you got a several punish from everyone. Now, some characters could kill you with +/- 8 hits (No BEs necessary) as happend in SC3 but others chars needs around 12 hits with 1 BE to do the same amount of damage. Is this "fair" i don't think so. This game was very well balanced before this patch, now, the disbalance comes from the buffs for some chars which were good in the previos patch, making them HIGH/TOP and the nerf of the "good" characters in the previous version to make them MID/LOW.

In this version, some characters have a lot of difficulties to make a comeback than others to win from 0 - 2 when in the previous version, this was more balanced and happened often.
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Not really, a lot of bad stuff was fixed
Natsu was just stupid with A+B all-around solution. A+B all day. no other moves needed. At all. TJ, fast, heavy damage. Its no balance.
Tira even after JS nerf is one of the best chars in the game. I think she need more nerf
Mitsu before patch generated more meter and much better guard break. he was completely absurd
Maxi damage nerf might be questionable yes, but I think he is still good and before patch he was stupidly good.
So I dont think that "everybody IMBA = Balance", no. Its just some chars got patch, whre others not. Obviously a lot of moves with stupidly good risk/reward are still around in abundance. Thats why people are leaving, not b/c "game is not what it was". Before patch it was far more stupid.
 
Belial said:
Tira even after JS nerf is one of the best chars in the game. I think she need more nerf
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i was with you until i read this. anyone who thinks Tira needs to be further nerfed makes me either question their morals or know that they aren't Tira players. shoot maybe both. Tira was good when SC5 first came out. she was what Tira players were looking for. decent strength and stance guaranteed changes. against characters like maxi and Viola (with current insane viola buff to god tier patch) Tira is garbage. i've played Tira from the beginning so i know exactly what was done to her. oh and the fact that namco made her a Jolly side focused character is further BS. Jolly side has many punishable moves and on top of that is slow as hell. i used to enjoy fighting in jolly but now i pray that i shift to gloomy faster.

I'm sure this has been said in this thread somewhere before but Tira needs some buffs badly. she needs combos that aren't prayed for a stance transition. she needs to do more damage at least in her poke game so players don't resort to have to do unsafe things to get any sort of damage. her gloomy 22_88B needs more range. just small things that would make her better. now her fighting style is completely based on the opponent screwing up royally. if you face someone that knows tira the game is already pretty much decided since she doesn't really have a 50-50 guessing game like most other characters do.
 
Mmm, I really think Tira is a fine as she is now man. Jolly sucks, Gloomy is top-tier. Just the CE whiffing issues stick out as being true bullshit to me.
 
I dont get why people start complaining now when this had been announced for weeks now? Also it was stated multiple times that everyones Input was welcome, only limitation was that not top players should not commment and start arguing with top players votes. Which imo is necessary to prevent stupid discussions.

You guys are acting like Belial will recode the game in his secret russian underground laboratory after the poll. Most top players agree about certain moves and the majority is covered in the poll. Its an attempt to show Namco what is annoying most high level players while trying to keep it fun for casual players. Dont get the problem.

Frustrating to read all this. So frustrating.
 
0VincentRayne0 said:
i was with you until i read this. anyone who thinks Tira needs to be further nerfed makes me either question their morals or know that they aren't Tira players. shoot maybe both. Tira was good when SC5 first came out. she was what Tira players were looking for. decent strength and stance guaranteed changes. against characters like maxi and Viola (with current insane viola buff to god tier patch) Tira is garbage. i've played Tira from the beginning so i know exactly what was done to her. oh and the fact that namco made her a Jolly side focused character is further BS. Jolly side has many punishable moves and on top of that is slow as hell. i used to enjoy fighting in jolly but now i pray that i shift to gloomy faster.

I'm sure this has been said in this thread somewhere before but Tira needs some buffs badly. she needs combos that aren't prayed for a stance transition. she needs to do more damage at least in her poke game so players don't resort to have to do unsafe things to get any sort of damage. her gloomy 22_88B needs more range. just small things that would make her better. now her fighting style is completely based on the opponent screwing up royally. if you face someone that knows tira the game is already pretty much decided since she doesn't really have a 50-50 guessing game like most other characters do.
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Some of her tools in GS are obviously too good.
Take 3A(BE) hitconfirmable on CH, kills step, 90 dmg. ridiculously strong. I think its the best interrupt in the game. Even worse its a ridiculous punisher
Buff on her 666B(BE) is also.. debatable. Since 95 damage + good wakeup of a single BE makes her 3B by far the best in the game (fast, TC possible to input as 3B AND 33_99B).
I wont even start on how powerful 666B(BE) buff made 4K. With this and 3A GS Tira JG game is also the best in the game.

Trust me I know tira very well, as I have a very good Tira player to play vs on a regular basis. GS tira is actually broken. And its not very difficult to control her mood as long as you know how. So she spends 80% time in GS, which is absurdly stong. If you remove JS Tira IS the best character in the game hands down. So it only comes down IF you can truly control her mood, which from my experience is possible very well via 236K(BE) and JS CE combos.
 
docvizzo said:
I dont get why people start complaining now when this had been announced for weeks now? Also it was stated multiple times that everyones Input was welcome, only limitation was that not top players should not commment and start arguing with top players votes. Which imo is necessary to prevent stupid discussions.

You guys are acting like Belial will recode the game in his secret russian underground laboratory after the poll. Most top players agree about certain moves and the majority is covered in the poll. Its an attempt to show Namco what is annoying most high level players while trying to keep it fun for casual players. Dont get the problem.

Frustrating to read all this. So frustrating.
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The problem is Im fightin against the tide here. Most top players dont want to discuss stuff with "scrubs". I am alone and I will be overwhelmed eventually. Only as a single community we can overcome this and this involves top players to participate in discussions with scrubs even if its pointless/boring/frustrating. We need to unite and find a compromise. Some stuff left untouched, some patched.
But what happens now I get spammed by both scrubs AND top players who all are unhappy. Some whine about the game, other about the balance. Some hate me other tell me how my plea will never even reach namco ears so whats the point.
Just b/c I started what many thought about but strangely now I carry full responcibility and all hate/hopes are pointed at me.
I have always know what kind of community this is and I've never got my hopes too high, but this really will be for naught as long as the only player defending this changes is me.
 
docvizzo said:
I dont get why people start complaining now when this had been announced for weeks now? Also it was stated multiple times that everyones Input was welcome, only limitation was that not top players should not commment and start arguing with top players votes. Which imo is necessary to prevent stupid discussions.

You guys are acting like Belial will recode the game in his secret russian underground laboratory after the poll. Most top players agree about certain moves and the majority is covered in the poll. Its an attempt to show Namco what is annoying most high level players while trying to keep it fun for casual players. Dont get the problem.

Frustrating to read all this. So frustrating.
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Thanks doc, I thought I was the only one with that opinion.
 
@Belial

I really like all your work with the balance patch and the poll but i was a little bit baffled about how vague some of the points on the poll were. I really think thats what was pissing most people off. Maybe it would be good to go a little bit more into detail on some of the points.

Well that and secondly please delete the troll posts that say yes to all nerfs for other chars and no to buffs for all the chars they don't play. We really don't want to see BS like that. Tell them to make a proper list. I have no respect for such behavior, its about balance.
 
ChaosK said:
@Belial

I really like all your work with the balance patch and the poll but i was a little bit baffled about how vague some of the points on the poll were. I really think thats what was pissing most people off. Maybe it would be good to go a little bit more into detail on some of the points.

Well that and secondly please delete the troll posts that say yes to all nerfs for other chars and no to buffs for all the chars they don't play. We really don't want to see BS like that. Tell them to make a proper list. I have no respect for such behavior, its about balance.
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I fear if I start deleting those posts now I will be named an antichrist. I dont think I ever felt so much repulsion and hate as is now. I often question if Im doing the right thing at all.

At first I wanted to get into details but this kind of list would be kind of huge. this is a necessary evil.
I want all players votes b/c we are the community.
If we cannot put this forth togher as a community we dont deserve a patch.

what frustrates me is that game had prior to launch testing by many top players.
What they did? the run tournaments and wrote Future Press Guide.
Game out, I , Aris and many other players INSTANTLY find RETARDED GLITCHES. (remember fuzzy guard? step~G?)
I fear Namco really did the best they could. I wont blame them if no patch is coming anymore.
 
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