Basic Q&A Thread

IdleMind

IdleMind

BANNED FOREVER
Hey guys, feel free to post your general queries in this thread, or if you have a question that is more specific in nature, go ahead and make a thread for it!

-Idle
 
When someone is explaining a move and the put brackets around it(such as 3[k]) what does it mean? Also what do underscores mean(such as 66_kk)?
 
TheDreadPirate said:
When someone is explaining a move and the put brackets around it(such as 3[k]) what does it mean? Also what do underscores mean(such as 66_kk)?
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Brackets are used to represent holding the button: so 3[K] means hold the kick button. Underscores generally mean either or for directions. Like 22_88K means 22 or 88 for the directional input then K. Hope this helps :)
 
Perhaps this should be in the Cassandra section of the forum, but since it's a noob question I'll post it here:

What's the difference between 236B and 236:B? Since these moves seem to be quite important in her move set, I do wish to learn them both. When I'm doing the sequence, Cassandra usually thrusts her shield forward quickly.. so which one am I doing? And how is the other one supposed to look like? Thanks in advance.
 
Lash said:
Perhaps this should be in the Cassandra section of the forum, but since it's a noob question I'll post it here:

What's the difference between 236B and 236:B? Since these moves seem to be quite important in her move set, I do wish to learn them both. When I'm doing the sequence, Cassandra usually thrusts her shield forward quickly.. so which one am I doing? And how is the other one supposed to look like? Thanks in advance.
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":" indicates a just frame input. When you perform one of these moves, your character will flash white, it's all about timing. There's really not any difference between 236B and 236:B (except the white flash), they are good for ring outs or wall splats or overall punishers, but usually you should use 236(B) or 236:(B) (hold down your B instead of tapping it), they both will stun your opponent on normal hit and 236:(B) will launch them on counter hit. 236B does more damage, is one frame faster but has worse guard recovery than 236(B)
 
Koz said:
":" indicates a just frame input. When you perform one of these moves, your character will flash white, it's all about timing. There's really not much difference between 236B and 236:B, they are good for ring outs or wall splats or overall punisher, but usually you should use 236(B) or 236:(B) (hold down your B instead of tapping it), they both will stun your opponent on normal hit and 236:(B) will launch them on counter hit. 236B does more damage, is one frame faster but has worse guard recovery than 236(B)
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Hey, thanks for your answer! I'll try using 236(B) as well. So let me summarize this:

236B and 236:B are basically the same, except 236:B is a better version, which you need to time better, character flashes white, and the effect is greater?
And I assume the same goes for the difference between 236(B) and 236:(B)?
 
Lash said:
Hey, thanks for your answer! I'll try using 236(B) as well. So let me summarize this:

236B and 236:B are basically the same, except 236:B is a better version, which you need to time better, character flashes white, and the effect is greater?
And I assume the same goes for the difference between 236(B) and 236:(B)?
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Exactly :)
 
Lash said:
Hey, thanks for your answer! I'll try using 236(B) as well. So let me summarize this:

236B and 236:B are basically the same, except 236:B is a better version, which you need to time better, character flashes white, and the effect is greater?
And I assume the same goes for the difference between 236(B) and 236:(B)?
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According to Cassie's frame data, both 236B and 236:B have exactly the same properties, you just get more flash from the just frame version. So there's really no need to learn it. Usually the just frame moves are better, but not in this case. Some just frame moves have more strict timing than others, Cassie's 4BB:A is one of the easier ones (the A doesn't come off unless you hit the JF window).

http://www.8wayrun.com/wiki/cassandra-frame-data-sc4/
 
Actually Cassie's 236:B JF has ridiculous juggling properties (You can hit an airborne opponent like 5 times before he can get out of it), definitely worth learning IMO. You cant always go by frame data, for example Voldo's 66:B has the same speed, less damage and Soul gauge damage than 66B, but it is pretty essential in terms of punishment.
 
Okay, thanks guys, this stuff really helps. Now I do know when I'm doing a JF when I'm practicing, so that's a good start.

Frame data is mainly important for priority and recovery times I guess? The fact that 236:B launches the opponent more than 236B isn't expressed in frame data then?
 
236:(B) removes the air control ability from a juggled opponent, and re-launches. It makes certain combos possible that are otherwise impossible without it; for example:

33B A+B 236:(B) 4BB:A

-Idle
 
ah alright. So, what I get from it: to summarize the physical difference: both 236:B and 236:(B) cause the opponent to lose air control, as opposed to 236B and 236(B), which makes it easier to do some juggling. Damage wise and frame rate wise it all stays the same.

Assuming it will take a while before I can consistently hit the JF's, I should just try to use these moves, and whenever a JF comes up, I should follow it up with, for example, 4BB:A, or other juggling moves, and if it's not a JF, I should just block or do something else less risky.

Is this correct?
 
236:B does not remove air control, only 236:(B) does. The combo Idle suggested only works with the 236:(B) version. 236:B is the flashier version of 236B.

You can also practice 236:(B) juggling by going into training, setting the attack properties to counter and trying out the combo: CH236:(B) 236:(B) 236:(B) 4BB:A
 
Alright. So to conclude this (again), as opposed to what senzait said, there is no difference between 236:B and 236B, except visuals. The difference between 236(B), and 236:(B) is the fact that the JF version has juggling opportunities.

To pull off 236:(B), I need to press and hold B at the exact time when my control stick hits 6 right?
 
Lash said:
Alright. So to conclude this (again), as opposed to what senzait said, there is no difference between 236:B and 236B, except visuals. The difference between 236(B), and 236:(B) is the fact that the JF version has juggling opportunities.

To pull off 236:(B), I need to press and hold B at the exact time when my control stick hits 6 right?
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I'm pretty sure that senzait's post was a typo. :P

the 236:(B) JF is the only one to give juggle opportunities, correct. 236:B is a flashier version of 236B that I think knocks a tiny bit further back than normal 236B does. That's the only difference between the two.

And yes, to pull off 236:(B) Press and hold B as soon as you hit 6.
 
So, I don't really get 3d fighters in the same manner as 2d. Like when I see a match, I don't always get what's going on, sometimes it just looks like random pressure- this is more of a tekken/vsav thing for me since this and Virtua Fighter aren't as fast. What should I be looking for? What are my goals here? Generally if I play I look for things I can hit- like getting in range for an attack, out again to dodge and then a hit attempt. It just feels different, I can use some of the same things but it just seems to kind of flow without too much thought.

What should I be on the lookout for, and what should I learn? I use Nightmare, SCIV. I know I'm best at mid range or so until i can get some momentum going, since I've been playing him for a while... But I don't have it down like I have street fighter down.
 
Taylor said:
So, I don't really get 3d fighters in the same manner as 2d. Like when I see a match, I don't always get what's going on, sometimes it just looks like random pressure- this is more of a tekken/vsav thing for me since this and Virtua Fighter aren't as fast. What should I be looking for? What are my goals here? Generally if I play I look for things I can hit- like getting in range for an attack, out again to dodge and then a hit attempt. It just feels different, I can use some of the same things but it just seems to kind of flow without too much thought.

What should I be on the lookout for, and what should I learn? I use Nightmare, SCIV. I know I'm best at mid range or so until i can get some momentum going, since I've been playing him for a while... But I don't have it down like I have street fighter down.
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The first thing I would say to any 2d player coming into a 3d game is that you have to fundamentally get rid of the way you understand "footsies" as you do in a 2d game. In a 2d, your 3fr low poke transitions into combos, and often knockdowns, so fishing for quick/light hits is optimal, however in SC4, that can get you into a ton of trouble or yield you no reward, most low pokes are negative frames on hit; and quick mid hitting pokes, like most characters BB's provide minimal frame advantage and worse, push the opponent away.

The primary goal of a 3d game is to make your opponent react poorly to what you intend to do, based on what your characters strength is.

For Nightmare in particular, you need to score a knockdown and run his amazing okizeme and wall/Ring out game. The problem is, Nightmare has trash frames on block, so he has to be either highly risky, or opportunistic. Generally, throw out safe pokes like 3K, 1K and such to frustrate the opponent, and force them to attack you while you have the life lead; and score CH knockdowns with 6K, 4KK, agA, and such. If they don't bite, continue to be annoying with pokes and throw often, Nightmare has amazing throw range, and throws also score you the knockdowns your looking for. Once you get those knockdowns you can play riskier, incorporating his 1A, tech traps, and other less than safe tools.

Hope this helped, a little.

-Idle
 
ok, so not too different from what I've been doing.
any ticks for them tharr throws?

edit: so yeah, mindgames don't really happen from normals in this. what about movements? like generally dashing in for a low and then hitting high. something like that.
 
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