Bear's Zwei Guide

[pfiidude]

Your reputation precedes you zombie bear :)

What does the copyright symbol mean? the lil c in a circle....

 

[ZOMBIEBEAR666]

Your reputation precedes you zombie bear :)

What does the copyright symbol mean? the lil c in a circle....

Its suppossed to be (c) which means "at close range" but awesome Word program made it a copyright symbol which looks cooler in my opinion...

 

[ZOMBIEBEAR666]

snip

Whatever dude, I appreciate the feedback.
I did have more for the matchups just to let you know but I had so much already that trying to finish it would've taken another 4 months straight (not something I was happy about)...
But I'm satisfied, my intentions where to not even put this up but use it myself, if you can't figure it out then oh well, or ask me man its why I'm here on 8WR...

For #1, for the most part, the frames are not as in depth sorry, they just aren't so I did it myself, those are my results...
For his frame traps (#2) they aren't too lacking in my opinion, if you want to go crazy and risk KF B off everything go ahead (I do it, whatever) but for the most part these frame traps are reliable from my experiences...
Well for #3 as you put it, its about how many backdashes Zwei has to be for each attacks best/max range, in other words how far each hit reaches. This is based on Zwei's dashing specifically...
#4 - Wow! A compliment from Belial! Thanks man!
Yeah I know his combos are posted but they're all there, and the ones that aren't there (yes I purposely left some out) aren't worth it damage-wise. (#5)
On part 6, this is where I felt your guide was lacking when I looked at it, so I took extra care here...
I guess #7 can be confusing, I did it in a format like ~ Attack > Guard Damage > Advantage on Break > Combo After Guard Break... something like that, I tried to order it at least.
Um, NO sorry. These are beautiful numbers my friend! These tell you what Zwei is at when the attack/hit in question is Just Guarded. They can be useful for people who need help against Zwei too (or more-so).
Yeah, the EIN taunt disadvantage relates to what Zwei is at when you're in cooldown for EIN's summon. For attacks like 66A+B, if you've summoned EIN, its how unsafe the move is on block since its an attack and not a taunt.
On #10, its not necessarily frametraps, but EIN setups etc. The stuff there is reliable, its easy to read in my opinion, and I gave everybody Zwei's advantage post setup (lets face it they don't always hit).

I did leave out the 66A+B guard break into 44B combo, although its useful I didn't know about until I put the guide up... When I tested it, the 44B combo didn't do much more than 66A+B break into CE combo, although the 44B variant is much more useful damage-wise when you're low on meter...
Since the stuff that was left out is elsewhere I'm sure people aren't complaining about it not being in my guide since they can browse other guides and threads or what-have-you... But in terms of completeness sake, I personally don't care at this point in time, if you got a problem its your's alone...

 

[pfiidude]

I dont why your defending yourself and your guide zombiebear. No ones gona sit here and bash you for putting all this time into sc. we all apreciate it, we just like to post stuff down here in the coments for all the other people browsing to see. I didnt know about 66A+B guardbreak 44b....

so, as far as your conecerned, whats the better follow up after 66a+b on hit. cuz i have to admit,i still do 1[B................ i still get away w alot outa tht pressure stance......

 

[Egg]

Qouting to get your attention :)

Belial has some points and tbh his mitsu matchup guide is fucking awesome. You can pretty much base all matchup guides on what he did short of the frames being posted but that doesn't take much work. Does he have a right to say your guide is lacking? not imo, but anyways its not about the match up knowledge. The info you posted about the frames allows any good player to lay a good solid foundation to play zwei and I personally aooreciate that.

So I made an odd discovery, if you hit someone with an untechable knock down and then do 44B+K UB, they will have to JG both hits. 3B is the only one ive found so far. I was wondering, do you know of any other untechable knockdowns?

 

[JustinAkatsuki]

Belial has some points and tbh his mitsu matchup guide is fucking awesome. You can pretty much base all matchup guides on what he did short of the frames being posted but that doesn't take much work. Does he have a right to say your guide is lacking? not imo, but anyways its not about the match up knowledge. The info you posted about the frames allows any good player to lay a good solid foundation to play zwei and I personally aooreciate that.

So I made an odd discovery, if you hit someone with an untechable knock down and then do 44B+K UB, they will have to JG both hits. 3B is the only one ive found so far. I was wondering, do you know of any other untechable knockdowns?

hmmm I think after 66A+B on hit, if u do 8A+B its an untechable knockdown yeah. Thats the only one I know so far

 

[ZOMBIEBEAR666]

hmmm I think after 66A+B on hit, if u do 8A+B its an untechable knockdown yeah. Thats the only one I know so far

If you mean as a combo, it shouldn't work, but if you get 66A+B, 8A+B then so be it. But 66A+B, KF B is my go to for setups, it gives great wake-up and doesn't chuck them as far away as 8A+B does. The damage difference isn't too far apart either...

So I made an odd discovery, if you hit someone with an untechable knock down and then do 44B+K UB, they will have to JG both hits. 3B is the only one ive found so far. I was wondering, do you know of any other untechable knockdowns?

How practical is this? Can they roll the unblockable?
KF B (air hit)/ B+K (air hit)/ 3B/ 8A+B/ 33B/ 4{A+B}/ 1K{BE}/ 1B (air hit)/ WR B/ 66A+B/ RUN K/ 6B+KB(combo)/ 44B/ and I think Back Throw, are all untechable KND attacks (I might be missing a couple)...
33B in my opinion is the best option to tech 44B+K wake-up off of, since 33B combos are little damage...

So, as far as your conecerned, whats the better follow up after 66a+b on hit. cuz i have to admit,i still do 1[B................ i still get away w alot outa tht pressure stance......

The better followup depends on the whole situation, each of the combos I have for 66A+B serve a purpose.
I would go with 4A+B most of the time or if you can apply pressure KF B has a good wake-up, but if you miss the timing for either 4A+B or KF B then A+B has always gotten me somewhere (i recommend it as a fail-safe)... If you didn't expect EIN to hit off 66A+B, then going into A+B also saves here since its always good to get some damage, you also still have time to dash in and then do A+B for range and timing...
I find myself doing 66A+B, 1{B} from time to time too, usually when I think I can't reach with A+B if EIN hits unexpectidly.

 

[Egg]

How practical is this? Can they roll the unblockable?
KF B (air hit)/ B+K (air hit)/ 3B/ 8A+B/ 33B/ 4{A+B}/ 1K{BE}/ 1B (air hit)/ WR B/ 66A+B/ RUN K/ 6B+KB(combo)/ 44B/ and I think Back Throw, are all untechable KND attacks (I might be missing a couple)...
33B in my opinion is the best option to tech 44B+K wake-up off of, since 33B combos are little damage...



.

Ive tested teching, I just tested rolling and it looks like you can side roll.. I was poked out this by devil Jun with 2A I think. Might have been a timing error though. It seems very practical especially since you can cancle the ub.

Edit: yeah this is fairly applicable as a mix up option. This is abuseable on people who dont know to roll, and if the do roll then you can cancel the ub and hit them with moves that will hit roll.

Any suggestions for a good tool?

additional edit: also it would apear that Ein is available to use after the UB hits.

omg another edit.....
An example, sorry for the quality.

 

[pfiidude]

OH MY JESUS!? is this a new trick?
again, i dont have my sc disc so i cnt test it.....
How well does canceling work for a mix up.... the animation isnt to choreographed?

 

[JustinAkatsuki]

Tried it against an opponent in Global yesterday....it worked :D But they chose to sideroll so I just cancelled the unblockable and did 1K BE instead

 

[Egg]

Naming this the: Zwe's Hammer Manuever/mxup, since my last name is Hammer.

 

[Bloodpixel]

That name is so fitting since ZWEI's sword is the nail and EIN is the hammer.

 

[Egg]

Ok here is a fun question. What are the actual frames after the un-blockable hits? It feels like zwei is at -5 while the opponent can tech. I cant seem to find any true tech traps, but It seems off othe UB you have a variety of 50/50 mix up's to work with.

Edit: also here is another way to use the Hammer Mixup. Its hammer time.....

 

[Bloodpixel]

Well just make sure they don't just guard it that's for sure...

 

[Egg]

So Ive done more testing and I think I found a few new combos.

First of all what Ive found on the UB, the best setups to hit it are

3B 44B+K - Opponent Has a short amount of time to react, good time to mixup

4[A] 44B+K - This is fairly potent against players who like to guard or counter alot. Releaseing Ein shuts down a lot of options, Stepping or being on the ground/air being the oly options to avoid the attack. Depending on what your opponent does You should vary your strings to match accordingly, examples would be to release Ein early//late or/and cancel the UB. If ein hits you can land 44B+K UB for free to be at 0 I think, if your opponent is against the wall and Ein is blocked, 44B+K can be timed to hit for free. JG is the only escape.

66A+B 44B+K same as 4[a] above. If Ein hits and launchs the opponent after he has been charged this combo will work.
66[A+B]* ein* 44B 44B+K will combo(i beleive). for 92 dmg. This combo works after a gurd burst.

[B+G] 44B+K will combo if timed correctly. If blocked UB can still hit.

B+K to opponent in the air - This is the most interesting thing I experemented with

B+K 44B+K UB is a combo for about 60, this is only true in non combos. If you combo someone with say CE B+K then your opponent can still escape the UB since they where not knocked high enough.

B+K BE B+K to opponent in the air is where it gets interesting.

B+K BE* (ab)B+K 8A+B ein* CE B+K 4A+B 173.
There are more versions but this is the easiest version I found. When I pull it off in a match Ill post.

 

[ZOMBIEBEAR666]

snip

I tested this stuff with Zwei vs. Zwei & Yoshi vs Zwei>

3B, 44B+K
3B on hit into 44B+K can be interrupted by holding {G} then attacking (44B+K is i16 vs wake-up), or you can simply roll Left or Right. No combo here and I was hoping it would work... For those of you attempting this, I recommend cancelling the Unblockable into a 1K to pressure rolling.

4{A}, 44B+K
The unblockable can be stepped in the situations you mentioned above, even if you cancel the unblockable 4K is the only quick enough move, post step 44B+KG~4K can be blocked. The options are limited here, not too much to pressure with except EIN's hit...

{B+G}, 44B+K
I tried everything, what I found is 44B+K can be teched L/R off max delay hit (which isn't even effective) on ground or if EIN hits separately, with max delay giving you the most advantage it means other delays wouldn't matter... 44B+K does catch F/B/G tech here however.

B+K(air), 44B+K
I found this works against Yoshimitsu's MED B or FLE 4*5*6A+B, I noticed EIN needs to hit towards his max height in the animation to launch high enough for 44B+K to combo. Its less likely it will work if you're hitting a character out of thier JUMP A*B*K, it won't launch high enough and 44B+K gets rolled Left & Right. 44B+K will catch F/B/Neutral tech and interrupts attacks off the ground, still its situational and >
B+K(air), KF B = 56d.---------------\
B+K(air), A+B = 60d.-----------------> (44B+K does build the most meter on hit though)
B+K(air), 4A+B = 67d.--------------/


B+K{BE}, B+K(air), 8A+B, EIN, CE, B+K, 4A+B = 171d.
First off I insist you use KF B instead, both options have thier inconsistencies, but I find 8A+B knocks back too far sometimes compared to just timing KF B right, anybody can miss timing on either option. KF B version does more damage and gains more gauge, both look equally cool in my opinion. The consistencey issues with B+K's launch height also applies here and trying to time a B+K{BE} into it just for an air hit is kind of ballsy... Regardless it can potentially combo, mixing 11K or 44A off B+K{BE} with B+K might work.
One thing I'd like to point out, if the first hit of 8A+B connects midair the 2nd hit is AC'able...
B+K{BE}, B+K(air), 8A+B(2nd hit only), EIN, CE, B+K, 4A+B = 176d.
B+K{BE}, B+K(air), KF B, EIN, CE, B+K, 4A+B = 184d.
B+K{BE}, B+K(air), KF B, EIN, 1A = 135d.

66{A+B}(break), EIN, 44B, 44B+K
44B+K can be rolled Left or Right...

In my opinion the unblockable is only worth the cancel...

 

[Egg]

The consistencey issues with B+K's launch height also applies here and trying to time a B+K{BE} into it just for an air hit is kind of ballsy...

I like this statement.

Your right about the UB, You can land it on people who fall asleep but It will usually gurantee your opponent to tech/roll if they are not doing so. It does have a use, but its for only a few situations.

When I tested that new combo I was able to pull off many variations other then 8A+B being used but I figured it was the easiest to start with and to learn the concept. Its difficult to use but If someone likes to abuse TJ's and you can call it, then Its worth the risk if it can potentially when you the round. Instead of doing the CE you can combo in other attacks. Ive yet to find the best attack other then the CE that deals the most damage.

I was looking through the move list and noticed 66[A] BE. This move is very interesting. Now I can confirm that if you delay Ein and use the UB. if EIN is blocked the Unblockable will have to be jg'd. If you cancel and your opponent does jg. some opponents will drop there guard and tap guard to stop the UB with. My suggestion would be to cancel then throw/KF B/ 3B/ A+B/etc.

strings with 66A BE

66[A]BE Ein KF B - max delay required
66[A]BE BB Ein -
66[A]BE AA Ein -

combos
66[A] Ein 44B+K - requires slight delay of ein.
66[A]BE ein 44B - Delay ein to Pretty sure this combos if timed right, causes ground stun but nothing is guranteed.
etc - get creative :)

66[A] BE 3B Ein - this is wierd. I think something big is here but I havnt found it yet. Basically, Hold Ein then use 3B. Try to Pincer hit the opponent with 3B fitting first knocking them up then Ein knocking them down. They bounce in a strange way and to be honest this does look cool. More testing needed for certain.

Imo Its all about setting up the Frame traps and making them confused after having to block 9 times in a row. I would love to comprise a list of Strings that keep Zwei in advantage.

 

[ZOMBIEBEAR666]

snip

The unblockable doesn't do enough dmg, and why risk it when you can just get guaranteed damage anyway?
Same with 66A{BE} steups, I'm guessing you want 66A{BE} first hit to connect? There's not much point to the setups really, 66A{BE}, 1A combos for 78d. and if you want the CE combos for more but risking setups that in a sense are like rolling dice just to get a bit more dmg don't seem viable... If someone falls for this it would happen because of lack of matchup knowledge or lucky/ bad day at the office... I'm just glad that after EIN gets stepped with 66A{BE} on block that Zwei is safe
(-10). 66A{BE} into 44B needs to hit at the right angle and doesn't work on all characters, delay into 1A is still #1 combo... There is no point in 66A{BE}, 44B+K combo, 44B+K can be teched Left and Right, it does 75 damage! whats the point??? There's a reason this stuff ain't in my guide, sorry for my rudeness...
If you want garaunteed advantage frame traps there aren't many, 4{A}/ 1{B}/ 66A+B etc can all be dealt with...

I did find a good combo though! Probably one you tested but I'll say it anyway:
B+K{BE}, B+K(air), 1K{BE}, EIN, 1A = 110 to 115 damage (depending on how they land)
With 1K{BE} (no EIN due to cool-down) I found that its the only attack where EIN combos without B+K's launch height mattering... Although it costs 1/2 bar more meter its 100% guaranteed and the best part is 1A is a tech trap agianst all tech in this combo!

I also tested the CE combo with 44B+K in your video, they can roll the unblockable Left & Right and after the ground stun 1K can be teched and blocked in all directions so this setup only works if they drop thier controller in a sense... I couldn't even find any tech traps after 44B+K ground stun, I think 2A might work and we know 1K catches ground rolls but Zwei has such a bad recovery after it that its better to risk the tech traps off of the main CE staple combo than go for this... I also tested the damage >
CE, B+K, 44B+K(T!), 1K(T!) = 59d.+25d.+26d. = 110d.
CE, B+K, 44B+K(T!), 1K{BE}(T!), A+B = 59d.+25d.+64d. = 148d.
CE, B+K, 4A+B (staple) = 95d. (guaranteed)
CE, B+K, 4A+B (staple), 1K = 111d. is same as first setup.
CE, B+K, 4A+B (staple), 1K{BE}, A+B = 141d. is same as second setup.
Off the Unblockable setup, the 1K can be rolled and neutral guarded even, so nothing is actually garaunteed where as off the main staple CE combo 1K is actually a tech trap.
Same damage, same meter gain, same meter useage, but not garaunteed off 44B+K = not worth it in my opinion... And thats if 44B+K hits, that can be rolled too...

 

[Egg]

Ha Nope didnt think of that one, supprised I didnt think of it lol. Nice finds. You the man sir.
Tested and confirmed.This leads into a CE or frame advantage, not sure whats guranteed. Your combo is very effective and can kill. If someone is prone to jump, this will make them think twice. I can see this working on Voldo really well.

1K BE has to be done late, they cannot tech it

If you use 1B in 1K's place and do it late then ein becomes a techtrap/groundtrap meaning they have to block asap. If they block they will be ad disadvantage.

Seriously, playing zwei is so much fun when you figure him out, So many people just block and die. And when you play good players his basics game is really solid and works into his frame game. Im really feeling like he is the most underrated charecter in the game. Im not going to say that he is top tier without proving so, but I feel with a good player who the knowledge of the game, he can be quite a force.

I'm having a lot of success with the 66[A] BE mixup. Ive hit a lot of people with different mixups in randoms. If you hit with 66A set them up for a frame trap and see what you can do :). Ive found its good for whiff punnishment and gi situations, im not saying its the most effective option, but it will make the opponent scratch their head in a tourny, and thats the real advatage with zwei to me.

Also you have been bringing up what builds meter. I was wondering out of the effective options, which moves build the most meter? Does he have anything as abusive as pats 66B for example?

Edit: i did some more testing and wasnt sure if you found this or not:
B+KBE B+K(hit) 1K BE ein ce Is guranteed it seems.

The tech trap B+KBE B+K(hit) sets up are very interesting
B+KBE B+K(hit) 1K Ein Is very interesting, The damage is the same but less meter is spent. If the 1K is early, it can be rolled back and ein will whiff, if the 1K is late then you can catch the back tech and ein will stun allowing for CE.

 

[Bloodpixel]

ZWEI doesn't seem to have many meter building moves on block. Or I think. I need to test that out. But EIN not building any meter really holds ZWEI back.
Also how are you supposed to land B+K (air hit) after a B+K BE? Was there something you were supposed to do before that I wasn't paying attention to?