Break Pressure and Max Damage

BrewtusBibulus

Get your eSports on!
Getting my feet wet and thinking about maining her instead of the all too popular Leixia... I noticed there is no thread about breaks. So I pose a few questions.

What are her primary tools to apply guard pressure?

Can you apply good guard damage in a battle of pokes? Anything that applies good guard damage and pushes opponents away? How about safe moves that are 12 or better?

How does she safely apply guard pressure into her offense? What setups lend themselves to big guard damage afterwards?

My first though was thinking 44B+K in wakeup, hits them if they play dead and applies guard damage if they stand. Seems like a great tool to apply and force someone to stand up into grabs, I would just say that using it more often than not would be advisable if someone shows any inclination to staying on the ground, the throw mixup is super unsafe to playing dead.

What does she do for max damage from breaks? Are there slower more damaging options that only connect if you break with moves that have smaller recovery?

For example with Leixia if you break with a handful of moves you get 44[A] to start a combo and it will up your damage to 100+ instead of 75ish. So I would say start with the biggest damage CH combos you have and see if your better moves on block will give it up free, then work your way backwards to see what are your best options for specific setups and then the best options for everywhere.

How do breaks incorporate into wall damage/RO's and how does she control the match WITHOUT breaking guard?

This was one place Leixia seemed to shine, her tools for control are amazing for when she can't break at all. So it lets you pick and choose where you want to break until it will get a wall combo, RO or max damage.
 

geejay008

[09] Warrior
Her primary guard pressure imho is getting the opponent to block 4B... which also serves as a decent frametrap. Its really slow to come out so its best to apply it after OP knockdown. If it hits instead... thats an easy DNS B follow-up.

When you do break guard, I think the best combo on DMG would be 66B+KAB, G, DNS B on a non-wall/ringout stage. If you're able to get wall splat... you can go for repeated NS B4, but its risky in that if you miss the 4, a glitch will make it so your opponent recovers before you (who'll still be in the middle of 'pulling out the sword... seeing red' animation) thus making you vulnerable for punishment. However, you do get added style points for killing them after four NS B4 wall splats in a row... ^_~

Personally though, whenever I see the guard crush... i just spaz a CE as a reflex... >_< lol!

You're right though, I think we need a thread detailing on Omega's Guard Crush Data...
 

AyaImmortal

[08] Mercenary
Her primary guard pressure imho is getting the opponent to block 4B... which also serves as a decent frametrap. Its really slow to come out so its best to apply it after OP knockdown. If it hits instead... thats an easy DNS B follow-up.

When you do break guard, I think the best combo on DMG would be 66B+KAB, G, DNS B on a non-wall/ringout stage. If you're able to get wall splat... you can go for repeated NS B4, but its risky in that if you miss the 4, a glitch will make it so your opponent recovers before you (who'll still be in the middle of 'pulling out the sword... seeing red' animation) thus making you vulnerable for punishment. However, you do get added style points for killing them after four NS B4 wall splats in a row... ^_~

Personally though, whenever I see the guard crush... i just spaz a CE as a reflex... >_< lol!

You're right though, I think we need a thread detailing on Omega's Guard Crush Data...
4 ns b? the max i can get is 3...

also 66b is really good at doing guard damage. only -2 on block
 

geejay008

[09] Warrior
4 ns b? the max i can get is 3...

also 66b is really good at doing guard damage. only -2 on block


...I was able to get 4 one lucky night... but its very situational, since you got to get its starting position exactly in the right place near a wall corner since the motion gradually rotates anti clockwise. I was also a little lucky in hitting the B4 for 4 consecutive times... >_<

Technically, I'm guessing you can perhaps pull off up to 6 NS B4 wallsplats if placed well near a wall corner... but I don't think I'm that lucky/consistent enough with the B4.. >_< I also think that the more you do these... the more impact the damage scaling has on the combo... so it might not be efficient, but I think its quite demoralizing to your opponent to be helplessly eating that many stabs and wallsplats... >_<

66B is good too... however, not as 'spammable' as 4B on wake... though I do tend to spam 66B in anycase, but only in range.. and the opponent is trying desperately to tech...

4B is also a mid that's +2 on GRD... so its Omega's BnB frametrap setup... that also coincidentally hurts the guard gauge... ^_^


The way the game works you can only get 2 wallsplats in ANY combo


...fast forward to 03:15. ^_^
 

Kvasir

[10] Knight
Not an authority on Omega, just someone who recently began a serious attempt to pick her up, but I'll take a stab at some of your questions. Hopefully it will help both of us.
What are her primary tools to apply guard pressure?
8B+K (crush in 7, -12 w/FrC) - 66B (crush in 9, only -2, otherwise useful) - 44B+K (crush in 9, -10, useful vs grounded) - 4B (crush in 9, +2, yup...) - 22_88B (crush in 9, -8, otherwise useful) - B+K (crush in 12, -12 w/follow up, otherwise useful) - 66B+K (crush in 11, -8, possibly the best move for breaking)
Can you apply good guard damage in a battle of pokes?
Yes, on top of her more straight forward guard crush moves she hes a few quicker moves to deal guard damage with more safety (6K, 1B, 22A, WR K) and a pair of nice evasive moves that crush (66A+B and B+K)
What does she do for max damage from breaks? Are there slower more damaging options that only connect if you break with moves that have smaller recovery?
66B+KAB, DNS B/ 66B+KAB, CE, DNS B (96/128 damage) is the best damage you can get off on any break.

4AB, DNS B (83 damage) is solid damage, easy to do, and can connect off any break.

4[A]A, DNS B:4 / 4[A]A, CE (125/130 damage) Best damage, but can only connect off certain breaks like 6K, 4B, and 66B+K.
How do breaks incorporate into wall damage/RO's and how does she control the match WITHOUT breaking guard?
RO/W! to left: NS B4, RO/W! right: 88B(1p), RO/W! forward: NS K, RO Backward: 33B, RO forward over wall: 66B

Semi thorough list of good moves that can not break: DNS B, NS A (DNS A will break), 4A, jump K, 11A, 33K, 66A, 22K, AA, BB, 3K, 1K, 2K, 2A, last and least sensible NS B won't break, but NS :B will.
 

geejay008

[09] Warrior
So that's only 2 wallsplats... Were you trying to say you can get more or just showing an example of the angle you need to get them?

*facepalm* ...I was counting the NS B4 connecting... >_< lol!

...i think if Omega's back was a little closer to the other wall... perhaps a 3rd wall splat might have happened... going 2 the lab again tonight to confirm... though it might take all night... since I've got to pull off four NS B4 in a row... =_=
 
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BrewtusBibulus

Get your eSports on!
I dunno about 4 of them... 3 sure, but 4 would require 3 wall splats. I have yet to see ANY character generate the 3rd wallsplat without a tech trap
 

AyaImmortal

[08] Mercenary
I dunno about 4 of them... 3 sure, but 4 would require 3 wall splats. I have yet to see ANY character generate the 3rd wallsplat without a tech trap
i havent seen it either....

I was just messing around with breaking guard just now and I find that 66b+k is indeed the best way to break in general. 3B breaks pretty good too imo
 
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BrewtusBibulus

Get your eSports on!
Ok so I was tooling around with it in practice mode, is there a way to get the front side hit on DNS B after 4[A]A? It seems inconsistent... and inconsistent means shitty by tournament standards when you can do 4[A]A 3B DNS B for 100+
 

Suirad

[10] Knight
I got break numbers for the moves that actually break in the wiki: http://8wayrun.com/wiki/pyrrha-w-frame-data-sc5/

InsaneKhent posted break numbers for a number of moves in a thread somewhere around here, I'll go look for it.

From my experience, getting people to block 66Bs, 8B+Ks, 4Bs and 4AAs is the best way to wrack up gauge damage quickly, although they all have their own downsides. 4AB after a guard break seems to be an ok Distance RO, in addition to options I saw posted before. Also if you are about to break opponent, 6K and 1B are the most pokey moves that can finish them off (good speed, frames etc) and 4AB can be used to catch them for sidestepping or attack at -, while still sporting a health break value.
 

Paranormal_Oreo

[12] Conqueror
I dunno about 4 of them... 3 sure, but 4 would require 3 wall splats. I have yet to see ANY character generate the 3rd wallsplat without a tech trap
I've gotten 5 wallsplats with Astaroth WITHOUT a tech trap. 632146:B+G. 22_88B BE. A+G(w!). 3K, A(w!). 6B. 22_88K. 22_88B BE. A+G(w!). 1B, B(w!). 2A+G BE(w!). 66K BE. 5 wall splats full life.
 

geejay008

[09] Warrior
...after A LOT of attempts, I can confirm that 3 NSB is possible on wall splats... after the 3rd NS B, the hapless opponent just 'floats away' from the wall regardless of how square on you are to the wall.

Me thinks a 4th one will only be possible if somehow, the combo got reset in the middle of it, ie a stray tech from the opponent etc and he/she still got hit... =/

Apologies for the mis-information.. =_=

If you break with 4B, I think 4[A]A > 6BB > CE is completely free.

I have to try that one... but I've a feeling the CE will end up losing a lot of damage bcause of scaling... =_=
 

Talon

[08] Mercenary
I have to try that one... but I've a feeling the CE will end up losing a lot of damage bcause of scaling... =_=

Still 130+ damage but it has a tendancy to whiff lex and viola unless your near a wall ( the 2nd B in 6BB whiffs due to small hit boxes)
 

geejay008

[09] Warrior
Still 130+ damage but it has a tendancy to whiff lex and viola unless your near a wall ( the 2nd B in 6BB whiffs due to small hit boxes)

LOL! soo many problems trying to reliably apply her only other BE outside of hit confirms... >_<

BTW, would 4[A]A still hit before your opponent breakout of the GB stun? ...its just that in a match scenario, whenever I see the green slowmo flash, i just go spaz 66B,A,B G DNS B/CE... feeling a little scared there's not enough time for the 4[A] to charge... >_<
 

WetJuiceBoxx

[08] Mercenary
Best bet is off of 4B, 6k and 66B+K. I get the charge off all the time when i play her. I love to apply pressure with 4B when i have my opponent knocked down. Then follow up with a 6B BE, for added pressure and if they block it then u can follow up with a NS B, which should be guaranteed hit(i could be wrong, please let me know if so). If u get the guard break off with a 6K or 4B, be ready to apply 4[A]A, CE for 130 extra damage.
 

Suirad

[10] Knight
BTW, would 4[A]A still hit before your opponent breakout of the GB stun? ...its just that in a match scenario, whenever I see the green slowmo flash, i just go spaz 66B,A,B G DNS B/CE... feeling a little scared there's not enough time for the 4[A] to charge... >_<

It's move specific and there is little room for error. Also, the timing is weird because of the timing of the buffer coming off the game freeze. However because the game freeze is so long you can get used to doing it in not too long. Also, WJB, 6B BE should only be +11, NS B is only free if they don't block/GI/jG.
 

YoshiKatYoko

[09] Warrior
4[A] is i38 frames. Can someone tell me if how many frames does guard burst have? So we can calculate on how many free frames to do 4[A]. Thanks!