Cervy match vids Comment & Critique

The only thing by far I can suggest to you Death is abuse many lows on BelovedChild since in the vid he seems to be tripping on most of them. With that in mind I haven't seen you take advantage of Cervy's 11A (not just 1A mind you).

Everything else seems alright from my speculation. I'm going to have to review the vid from time to time in order to further analyze the situation.

As for Xeph vs Inksplatter itz very hard for me to critique Xeph as he's the one mostly winning. However there are times when I feel that Inksplatter may do 44B. Also it seems like Xeph is almost going for 3B 8A+K iGDR 28B but in most cases you'll end up hitting with just iGDR. I would just stick with 3B iGDR 28B since itz most damaging and still gives good wake-up position. Only time to do 3B 8A+K iGDR 28B is when you hit the opponent from behind. I also need to watch these vids again.
 
Thanks, Xeph.

Well, I have trouble doing the 28 and iGDR, so I don't bother. After 3A:B, I didn't know you could do 2B+K. I'll have to test that out.

I don't know why I stopped the FC A+BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB either. I dunno, guess I forgot about it. The iTP bull crap is just something I do. Don't worry, I wouldn't go iTP-happy at a tournament.

My 22_88B combos sacrifice damage for...uniqueness? However, the 8A+K gunshot followed by 2B+K was stupid. Its isn't a tech trap, nor is it guaranteed damage. I think I just mindfucked myself. Usually, I go for the 2[B+K] tech trap or the 44K tech trap or the 22_88B recycle. I rarely, despite what the video shows, use 8A+K after 22_88B.

Ehhh, I don't like to use 1K as often as I should. My main goal with 1K is to draw out 2As so I can jump it with 8[B+K].

And, yes, I used a lot of your shit. What can I say? Its good shit.

Also, Franman, I'm not a fan of 11A. I dunno...I just don't like it.
 
You should like it. 11A is invisible to a lot of people, and BC looks like he'd fall into that category. That low is pretty good, good range, and good follow up options.
 
11A rocks. You should use it. Its long range, antistep,good Damage, ch combo...almost safe against a lot of the cast. 11AB is a good Setup for GI, 44B, Step, iTP etc...+ seeing the match ( i only watched the first 5 minutes since its superboring without any sound) he playes Raphael in a range where he would eat 11AA all day because he is stepping around, rushing in sometimes etc...really try it.

+ what i dont like is you are not using 3 of Cervantes best moves, maybe THE best moves: 2A+B, 3A+B, 6A. You should use them a lot more imo (depending on matchup etc). And sometimes when he is on ground throw out a 11B, try to implement it into your game a bit. And of course no iCT makes me sad :(

But nonetheless not bad at all, of course i point things out i dont like so you know what to improve :)
 
Wow. Maybe I should use 11A. I'll think about implementing it.

Well, I DO use 2A+B, just not in the video, for whatever reason. I've also been trying to use more 6A, that's a definite move I should be using. The same goes for 11B.

And I do Cervy's iCT a few times, mostly during the last match. If I recall correctly, I GI into an iCT.

Thanks, doc.
 
Ok, of course judging from one vid and only 5 minutes is a bit risky, good you are aware of those things pointed out. Keep it up, good Cervantes!
 
Sorry for the double post, but unfortunately I'm only allowed to post 5 vids per post so here are the last two vids. I hope you get to enjoy them all.

Casual Matches (cont'd)
 
Damn dude, Rock's Back Throw is ass!

donkey.jpg
 
Ok, Franman here are my random observations:

- Don't use iTP against Ivy. It doesn't work well against her because of her hitbox. You will find that most of the time the teleport will not take you behind her back.
- Use 2A+B. It beats CL 214B all the time, this move is golden vs Ivy, she can only punish it on block in SW stance up close with FC 2A or 6B. You don't seem to be using this move at all. It's better than 3A+B.
- Try using more 1K. 1K to WS A, throw, 6K, 2A etc She doesn't have any universal answer to this, so it's either risk or block. In SW, the only move that will beat 6K is SW 4B but it's high so it loses to WS A. In CL, 214B will beat 1A and 6K but lose to WSA and throw. In WP her fastest move from FC is WS K and FC K (both i15) Ivy player can use last resort which is WS A+B but you know how unsafe this move is.
- it wouldn't hurt to try B+K/A+K from time to time if you can anticipate certain moves. B+K will counter 9B, CL1B,B+K and WP6B+K2_8 for example.
- When you are patient you can punish 9B as seen in the video, try working on your aB punishments.

If you want to learn Ivy know that you don't need her command throws to win. It's more important to learn at least the basics of her gameplay to get a better idea what she is capable of. If you play on pad, for CTs you can try rotating your analog twice (starting at 1 and ending at 3). At the beginning the biggest problem for most players is to end the motion exactly at 3. If you end it at 2 or 4, it won't work (unlike in SC2 or SC3)
 
I don't know if you care to hear my advice, since you already have a superior Ivy player commenting on your games. But I feel that I played against a strong Cervantes player, so here goes:

-Remember to use 3B as your mid when you are in an offensive situation, especially when she isn't in SW stance. Don't hesitate to attack if she punishes you with CL/WP K. It's -frames on hit. CL/WP are actually on the slow side so you can CH fish with 3B too. Make sure you have your optimal combos down.

-Like Ring said, abuse more 1K. Grab/1K spam Ivy until she is convinced that she needs to actually guess, because Eli didn't seem to be caring too much about your lows/throws. He throws out 9B sometimes, but it's usually right after he does a safe move, so if you feel comfortable giving up your advantage for big damage you can step into 3B.

-Don't duck after he hits you with 214B. SE doesn't have a mixup, and it's -7 if he doesn't enter the stance. Don't hesitate to attack after you block SE K. You are in 1K/3B range most of the time.

- @1:33: You can actually do a tiny dash into 1K right here. 66A is decent too, but not likely to hit unless you conditioned them to step. Babalook uses 44K sometimes because it's safe and you can iTP throws afterwards.

- AA will interrupt many options after SW FC 3B, so keep that in mind depending on what her mixup is afterward. Usually the best way to cut down her options are using step or 44B afterwards. Break A because it pushes you out of range of her standing B+G, but not iCS.

-Pay attention to how SW 214K lands. The big thing is that she has almost no advantage if it hits you while you are facing up. Get up and step (practice this in training mode, you can step her 3B even if she does it immediately after 214K), or interrupt with 2A. Don't be predictable though, especially if you can't break iCS or react to 22K. These will catch step, although 2A beats both.

-Depending on your execution level and how antsy your opponent is, you can start using FC mixups on him. FC A+BBBB, FC Command throw, A+G. Don't do it if your opponent always has his finger on 9B or something like that, but then again, you should be teaching him not to spam 9B.

-Pay attention to ring positioning. If your opponent is reasonably close the edge, push him back toward it with FC A+BBBB. Ivy has a very hard time dealing with Cervantes corner pressure, but be sure to use 1K instead of throw near the edge if she is in SW.

-I don't agree with Ring about 2A+B, I think Cervantes has better mids against Ivy. It's true that she can't punish in CL or WP but then again if you normal hit her with it, you push her away and you are -frames (while she is in a ranged stance!). Don't be afraid to CH fish near a wall though.

-I think iGDR will punish her CL 236BB[4] on block.

I think you should post more videos, it's hard to get an idea whats going on in your heads from 1 video.
 
Noface, when it comes to step catching mids I think 2A+B has the best risk/reward ratio. 3A+B's advantage is safety but it has no reward whatsoever on NH/CH and WS A comes with a great risk on block. Against someone who abuses CL214B, Cervy's 2A+B is free 65dmg combo. Your advice is more valuable, I don't really know Cervy that well. The only good Cervantes I played was Docvizzo, and it was after he dropped him for Setsuka.
 
This reminds me of a conversation I had with Belial a long time ago about how to deal with Cervantes 1K. Of course it wasnt much help because all it did was confirm my suspicions that Cervantes can afford to somewhat spam this move against Ivy. Anyway, here it is:

its not 1K thats dangerous but setups it leads to.
your option select mostly depends on what your opponent is going to do. to deal with troublesome setups I recommend building matrixes like this

Let us assume we have 3 options in situation namely A,B,C and opponent has 3 as well namely a,b,c​
Lets see all possible outcomes and damage dealt as a result​
Aa =1, Ab=3, Ac=5, Ba=5, Bb=2, Bc=3, Ca=4, Cb=6, Cc=2​
This is wrote down as a matrix​
~ a b c​
A 1 3 5​
B 5 2 3​
C 4 6 2​
then just sum up every number and see whats the most damagin in average. if you want full article its here,but its kinda hard to read )) http://www.caliburforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34608

its actually pretty simple in practice if you use the "easy"(laplas) version
i.e.
# 6K, throw, FC A+B 9B+K
2A x 12 12 -50
fc1B -15 -50 80 80
gi 40 -50 -66 -50
4B 25 25 -66 -30
(numbers are very average I dont remember how much everything does right now)
now just sumin up
2A = 12+12-50 = -26
FC1B = -15-50+80+80 = 95
gi = -126
4B = -46
so your best bet is to mix 2A and FC 1B against basic strategy like this
but prob with this method is that once your opp figures it out he can do something (i.e "just stand there") to counter both options. so you need something else to do if they hesitate. i.e. techcrouch low, fast move with pushback on guard that beats at least one of their offencive options.
Click to expand...

So yeah, I dont have the game handy right now to check damage values but if Eli's reverse mixup consists solely of standing guard, 9B, and 214B (which it mostly did from that one video I saw), and if Ring is correct in saying that 2A+B reliably tracks 214B, 2A+B actually is the best risk/reward mid attack to use. Good job, Ring - my mistake.

However I want to add that like Belial said, if your opponent adapts to this (which most will do subconsciously even if they dont understand the math behind it), you need to change up your options accordingly.

If Eli's defense starts looking like this:

Step/Guard/9B =he doesnt feel comfortable with 214B so he substitutes step for it

Mids in general will be less useful here. You need to discourage 9B use by stepping into a full 3B iGDR delay 28B into BT mixup. The goal is to make crouch guard part of his defense. You will primarily be using grabs instead of 1K, unless you figure out that Eli has problems stepping 1K or that a majority of his defense consists of standing guard. If your option select in this scenario becomes grab or step (which it should be), a smart opponent will realize that you are being somewhat passive and that he can attack out of disadvantage with something like SW 22K.

This is when 3B becomes your main mid. It's gonna catch his TC attack from disadvantage for almost half life bar, and it will catch his duck too since you've already conditioned him to use less 9B and more ducking (most likely by stepping his 9B for big damage). 3B isn't too terrible against him if you catch him out of the air during 9B (if he still wants to use it), as you still have good ground tools like 1K and 3B to hit him grounded. I don't support using 3A+B unless he is in SW stance because grabbing also catches step and covers standing guard as well. You can argue that 3A+B covers airborne opponents too, but so does your primary mixup mid (which would be 3B if you have already discouraged 214B). I noticed you are using 3A+B a lot when clearly Eli has relinquished offense to you. Use this opportunity to its fullest.
Again, I don't have the game handy right now so I can't check damage values, namely against airborne opponents.

The bottom line here though is do whatever works. I was speaking too much from experience without actually thinking about how your local Ivy player operates. I did watch the video again and I see that Ring is correct. There was a point in time where Babalook used a lot of 2A+B vs. me, but I realized that I didn't need to be too afraid to duck vs. him. Just be ready for Eli changing his option select.

Ring: Are there any specific frames and/or distances that 2A+B is able to track 214B? How negative does Ivy's move have to be? Or is it consistent no matter what?

Hope I helped Franman. I realize that it may seem like I am getting ahead of myself, but everything that I described is exactly how my fights with Babalook went, and I know where an Ivy player's mind is going to go, so it might help to prepare you in the future if you have trouble adapting quickly.
 
alright so looks like I'm gonna use a lot of 2A+B.

*sigh where are all the Cervy players @? I've also looked @ youtube's comment section and I only saw Babalook's (aka RedCandyAgent)
 
I recommend you test 2A+B in training mode to get a better idea of when it is reliable and when it isn't, or at least until Ring responds to my question.
 
It seems Ivy has to be at +2~4 (depending on a move and range) to beat 2A+B with CL 214B. But this just works like a regular frametrap, 2A+B will lose because it becomes slower due to frame disadvantage. If Ivy is at 0 or negative frames, it will lose to 2A+B 90% of time. What's more, during the first frames of CL214B animation, Ivy evades to the side but also moves towards the opponent so 2A+B appears to catch her at even greater distance than normally would.

This becomes problematic because CL214B shouldn't be used when Ivy's at frame advantage. 214B itself will always lose to moves that have 100% tracking to the left side. Another good example is Ivy's SW 3A. It has zero tracking to right side and 100% to left, it will always beat CL214B (unless the opponent is at + frames)
 
So I did a bit of testing. What I did is force Ivy to block Cervy's bK leaving us both @ 0. So here's the catch... if we're both face-close to each other, Ivy's 214B beats Cervy's 2A+B. So it seems that Cervy has to be @ a fair distance to counteract Ivy's step move and I've tested that part already.

BTW this info is also good for the Anti-Character discussion so maybe I'll copy and paste these posts there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back