Defending Soul Calibur 2 Part 1: An Old Man Shakes his Fist in the Air

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IEBGHoneyBadger

[08] Mercenary
With the release of Soul Calibur 2 HD: Online, Soul Calibur 2 is back and all the angels are singing. This is pretty much the hub for Soul Calibur competition. However, there's is an understandable slant toward the newer games here as the newer players coming into the scene probably never even saw the older games in their prime.

What's concerning to me is that there's alot of opinions and misconceptions about SC2 that I feel need to be addressed. Why? Well, funny you ask.....

Me (Awesome Hat&Tie combo '13) and a few of my friends (Binkly - top 8 SC2 EVO '04, BL - top 8 SC2 EVO '04, Aris - Evil Santa '13) are trying to build a scene in the SoCal area. I'm in talks with Mike Watson, owner of Super Arcade where WNF is held every weekd, about having SC2 tounaents during WNF. Mike's given me a soft confirmation ythat he'd support the SC2 comunity, but before I got out spreading the word I want to turn that soft confirmation into a definite hard confirmation. I will probably speak to Mike this Wednesday and I'll follow you up from there. Wanna see SC2 at WNF? If you're in SOCal, show up to advertised events. If you're not, try to show support in your own way.

So that's why I want to defend this game in a nut shell. I want to build a scene, and I want to have people come play in it. But in order to get people to even LOOK at this game, let alone put it inside their machines at home, I have to overcoe a whole bunch of negativity surrounding the game.

If you like the newer games better and have no interest in SC2, feel free to leave this thread now. Go play the newer games. They are very widely reguarded and have established communities around the world. Rather than come here to dump on my game without hearing me out, just go play the games that make you happy. We'll all be better for it. Alswo, I won't have to take out y frustrations on your mom later. She stil sore fro last holiday.

Also, if you hate SC2 for whatever reason.... I dunno, go die in a fire for all I care. It's obvious you can't be reasoned with. Don't be surprised if I just ignore you.

So with that in mind, let's get down to business. I'm not going to cover everything here. This game has it's pluses and minuses. Also a bad netcode. That's why I named this article "Part 1." There's alot to cover, and I'll get to it all in time. Tonight, though, we talk about two things that scare most new players away from SC2 right out of the gates. Two things that with the very mention of them will get nubcakes to drop fight sticks faster than Binkly drops combos. (SHOTS FIRED SON! .... ahem, moving on)

And those two things?

2G and Step-Guard. Yep, I said it. We're knocking those fuckers out. Tonight. Shit ends here. I'm going to explain what they are (for people who don't has Aris subscribed to on YouTube (for shame!)). I'm also going to explain why they're really not that bad and game breaking. Whenever people mention competitive SC2 around fighting game fans, they often hear of these glitches and how this game is a broken turtley mess because of it. The phrase "Broken-Turtley-Mess" however is subjective. Also mean. Very mean. Broken is subjective. Turtley is also subjective. Mess is.... mean. Very mean.

Anyways, let's get back on task ladies and gentlemen.

2G

What it is, Jackson?:
2G is a bug that let's you side step and block at the same time. Wait, AT THE SAME TIME? This game is MAAAAAGIC!!!!!!!!! Pretty much the big and small of it.

How'd he do?
Tap down or up (depending on which direction you wish to side step), then quickly return to neutral and hit block ("G" son. It's called "G"). Tapping the direction gives you a quick side step, not a side walk. Very important distinction there. Once you hit "G" you'll glitch the game out in total WTF-style and be blocking even when side stepping. Yeah dude! EVEN WHEN SIDE STEPPING! Throughout the entire duration of your side step, you'll be blocking. It looks like you're stepping, but if they hit you, you'll be blocking. It really is the shit if you're into that sort of thing. You know, blocking and such.

Why we hate it! (read along these parts in whatever voice you think someone who hates this mechanic will sounds like):
Because you're blocking and moving at the same goddamn time Dudebro! How can you justify blocking and moving? It's cheap! Cheap I tell you! It also goes against THE VERY INTENTION OF THE GAME! Uh, hello..... there's a friggin HORIZONTAL ATTACK BUTTON! For HORIZONATALISH ATTACKING HOMIE! I is supposed to hit you when you move like that. It's what I' supposed to do. You can't take that away. That's make you a total dick! Also it makes the game stupid and turtley! You can just block all whilly-nilly and I can't do nothing about it! BOOOOOOORING!

Why it's really not so bad: (back to normal voice again. I usually go with Mountain Dew Man. He seems like a reasonable guy)
Honestly, I don't see how this makes the game and ore or less turtley than any other game. All it allows you to do is move RELETIVELY safely. Name one fighting game where basic movement isn't safe. Remember, we're talking about stepping here. Not jumping, or dashing or flying or riding a magic carpet (Spawn still does that right? He did it in Beta if I remember). We're talking about the basic side step. Tapping a direction. In Street Fighter, if I walk forward, I can block if I see and attack coming and react to it. In Tekken, if I side step I can block there too!

Why should SC2 have unsafe movement? Because the developers thought you should? Are they above mistake or something? Weren't combos and oversight in the first Street Fighter 2? Developers make mistakes too. Being able to safely move doesn't hurt the game in any way. In fact, I think it helps it. Soul Calibur is said by many to have to best, freest movement in any fighting game ever. Why discourage people from using and exploring this echanic by aking the get hit easily for trying it? Why not encourage them to run around the screen fluidly and effortlessly to see why people like the movement here so much. Don't punish people for dancing around the screen. Allow it! Let Soul Calibur's selling point sell itself on people.

Step Guard doesn't not automatically make you block everything, also. You have to actively push the block button and CHOOSE to block. So it's not a free side step whenever you want. If you don't push block, you don't step guard. Not only that, but the other argument of this making it a turtley game seems to me to stem from lazy and terrible players. Because step guard has you blocking, it falls to the same counters as normal blocking. Grabs. If they're step guarding you, GRAB DAT SWEET, SWEET ASS!

Also, since you can't side step and crouch at the same time, you can kick their knees all day with lows and they're just gonna have to take it. Like I said, people who usually complain about this glitch seem to me like lazy players. It's not like you can't grab or sweep. Why are you not doing it? Do you just want to mash standing A's and B's all day without me challenging you about it?

Also, people forget that if you step guarding, you're not attacking. So not only can you punish this, but it can't even hurt you. Not even just a little bit. A tiny little bit. Like tiny baby kittens little bit. Not even that much.

"But it makes horizontals useless!" you chortle.

To that I reply, no. Most horizontals in this game are plus on block. That means, even if you block them with a tasty StepG, I still get frame advantage. If you don't know what means, I'm sure there's a tutorial on frames somewhere on Google. Either way, I can press my advatange and even use this to set up sexy counter hits - the orgasms of Soul Calibur.

Conclude that shit!:
Step Guard doesn't make the game broken. It just let's you move kinda safely by letting you block while you side step. It's not a get out of jail free card because it can be countered by grabs and lows. It doesn't negate horizontals. It doesn't make coffee. it doesn't have great New York Boobs. It let's you kinda walk sideways and not get punched in the face. The nuts are still open game.

Hey! Speaking of coffee and nuts, I have to go splash my boots. I'll be gone during this short commercial break, but when I return..... I'm bitch slapping 2G in the cock!
 
Ok, back. Got a full Electronic Cigarette, an empty kidney, and a big ass Mountain Dew. How about we crumple-stun us some 2G?

Hmm. Looks like I wrote all that other stuff above about step guard and labeled it 2G. I wonder if this is really Mounttain Dew I'm drinking.... anyways......

2G (For reals this time, yo)

What it is, Jackson?:
2G is a bug (for reals this time) that allows you to block after a guard impact (for reals this time). If you need explanation on guard impacts and things of that nature, I suggest watching Aris's tutorial on SC2 basics on YouTube. Also, he is Evil Santa. Basically, you're really not supposed to block after a guard impact. All you're really allowed to do it guard impact them back. This let's you do it. It also allows the recovery of certain moves to be cancled if done after those moves.

How'd He do?: After being GI'ed, simply tap down, release to neutral and then press block. It has the same execution as step guard, just done from a different context.

Why we hate it!: (try a different voice this time)
I just GIed you an! That shit was hard! And I don't get rewarded for my skills with a free hit? What the face man! You can't just be blocking my shit. That's cheap Bro-gus! You's trolling! Also, why you get to block when you do stupid ass oves and shit! If you get to block, I can't hit you and ake you pay for pressing buttons! HOW CAN I THEN PROVE MY LEETNESS SUPERIORITY!>!?!

Why it's not so bad: (Mt Dew voice again)
First off, I can't see why being able to block after being GIed is a bad thing. I really can't. "BUT YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO!" yeah, well Magneto wasn't supposed to be the best rushdown character in MVC2, but he was. And people loved MVC2. And they loved rushing down with Magneto.

The thing is, it's still a block, and is subject to the same counters as any other block. You can hit'em where they ain't or you can grab. Also, not that they can't 2G after a GI and crouch, so there. Free lows. Mitsurugi has bad ass lows. Use them. Or just do what I do and grab them. Grabs in this game are stylish. I like that sort of thing.

Also, by committing to the block, they're basically giving up the ability to re-GI you. So feel free to press buttons and set up some frame advantage and fish for counter hits. Just go crazy on them. They like it like that anyways. They told me last night ever so gingerly in my ear while we laied adjacent in bed.

The other complaint is that you can cancel some moves recovery to make them safe. The big one is Nightmare's 3B. He can make it safe with 2G. The proble with that is that it really doesn't break the game either. Does it make certain match-ups tougher for certain characters? Yest, but bad match-ups happen. The thing is EVERY SINGLE MOVE IN SOUL CALIBUR 2 has ore than one built in counter. Let's play with Nightmare's 3B for exaple. Also, I' not going to use any character specific counters, just general ones that everyone should have access to. Nightmare's 3B is a vertical, that's now also very safe. That means it can be stepped. Easier said than done, I know, but this is fighting games. make some damn reads! Bait and punish the whiff. So you can't punish it on block. Anticipate it and punish the attacks attacking animation.

Not only that, but if they commit to the block, they're not attacking. They give up their stance based followups and mix-ups by short selling the 3B and blocking afterward. Sometimes, they'll hit you, but leave damage on the table because they followed-up with and un-confidant block rather than an attack.

But it get's better still: You know what else beats that tactic? BLOCK COUNTERS! All the things that beat blocks everywhere else beat them here. Lows. Grabs. All that stuff. Is it hard to get in on 3B spam to grab or use a low? Yes. Yes it is. It's still beat-able.

Conclude that shit!:
2G let's you block in times when you really weren't supposed to. First off, shame on you for blocking. Secondly, does it really matter? Blocks aren't unbeatable. Being able to do it, even when you're not supposed to is still counterable.

So there you have it. Old Ass Man part 1. I really hope this encourages people who are kind of intiidated by this game (and these bugs specifically) to at least try it. I' sure that if you give the game a chance, you ay fall in love with it just like us Old Ass Guys did way back in antiquity. This wasn't meant to change anyone's mind. It was meant to clear the air. Somepeople HATE SC2 and will hate it forever and ever no matter what. Those people have SC3-5 to play.

If you were initially scared of SC2 because of these bugs, I hope this has at least piqued your curiosity enough to try it out. And if you do try it and enjoy it, and also live in SoCal PLEASE for the love of God join the SoCal community. I'm trying to get a regular battle session started and encourage growth, friendship and exploration with SC2. That's the whole reason why I wrote all this.

I have a huge passion for this game. I've waited years for a decent follow up to this game, and I never got one until now. So Try SC2. Leave the house and battle other SC2 players. Also, drink beer. It's good for you.

Next time I talk about how NO ONE HAS EVER PLAYED THIS GAE BEFORE! EVER! Yep, that's right. Until recently, nobody has ever played this game before. It's a whole new world filed with blocky-wooden shoes and green fireballs. Ciao.
 
Your facts need work.

GI never gave you a free hit. It basically created a neutral situation.

2G leaves the successful GI'er at disadvantage.
 
IEBGHoneyBadger:

YOU ARE A FUCKING SCRUB FOR MAKING THIS APOLOGIST THREAD. I AM BETTER THAN YOU AT EVERY SC GAME, ESPECIALLY SC2. THE PEOPLE YOU MENTIONED ARE ALL PHONIES, ESPECIALLY ARIS FOR GETTING ACED BY MICK WHEN IT MATTERED, AFTER ALL OF ARIS'S BULLSHIT WAS EXPOSED BY EVO 2004!

THE WAY YOU WRITE IS GARBAGE. STOP BABBLING LIKE A VAGINA. CUT TO THE CHASE AND MAKE YOUR FUCKING POINTS. ALSO, YOUR BABBLING VAGINA ARGUMENTS ARE INVALID EVEN AFTER YOU DO MAKE YOUR POINTS. ALL YOU DO IS DEFEND NONSENSE. I CHALLENGE YOU TO BE LOGICAL AND THEN HAVE YOUR SHIT RUINED BY ME IN BOTH SC2 AND SC5! SC5 IS THE ONLY GOOD GAME IN THE SERIES, AND EVEN SC5 IS ALL KINDS OF FUCKED UP. LEARN HOW TO PLAY SOULCALIBUR, YOU TOOL!
 
I don't feel like it matters whether the devs intended these things or not. Playing SC2 again this really just takes away a lot of the fun. You can beat blocks even when they shouldn't be there but it sucks to hae to condense my game to lows and 50/50s. Takes out a lot of the fun factor and the gooey tootsie roll center that could be achieved with run counters and GIs.
 
While some of the logic is faulty. (Using grabs to prevent step-G, or sweeps) No need to bash him for wanting to try and explain the mechanics. May help some people.

What Honeybadger seems to forget is that many sweeps/grabs whiff anyway vs stepping. (The ones that are supposed to catch you)
 
Before posting anything, I asked around to some of the players I know about 8WR. They almost unanimously said to avoid it. It's just a bunch of narrow minded trolls who can't be talked to and will just talk shit and try to flame bait you.

I said nah, I' gonna go there and see if the newer players and fans of the newer games wanna check out the older stuff and see why we like this game so much. I gave this community the benefit of the doubt hoping that the premier Soul Calibur community site would be all for promoting and expnading the reach of a game that's a part of a series they apparently enjoy.

Of course I was wrong! Why would I be right about thinking the SC comminuty would be open to not being so split and would actually try have a decent conversation.

Nope. First post is from A MOD. TROLLING. WITH TLDR. A mod who's job is to read posts and moderate. How is a od supposed to know that I'm not breaking TOS if they can't be bothered to read my post. You're supposed to be the pinnacle of the SC community. An example of the best of the best SC has to offer. A place where people who share a siilar interest can get together and enjoy some Calibur. But nope. One of your model citizens (you know, the people the mod trust to create a welcoming environment for new member, aka mods) is just as bad as the worst trolls at 4chan..... well, that just speaks loudly and clearly. Ironically, that mod has an SC2 pic for his avatar.

Either way, it's clear that the SC2 community isn't welcome here. We own't expect any participation from you guys. Don't exepct any of ours either.

PS:

A. I know how GIs work. I was paraphrasing and simplifying the concept in the interest of clarity for newer, less informed players. Being disadvantaged doesn't distroy the meta game. Depending on the match up and the player, it can actually add to it. GI are very jarring and confusing. Do not discount the psychological advantage of slapping you enemies attack away with a loud noise and a bright flash when they though they were going to hit you. Theory Calibur is different from the battlefield.

B. The game doesn't de-evolve into sweeps and 50/50s. If you believe that is what it is at it's center, then I am afraid your view of SC2 is slightly skewed.

C. I am aware that many sweeps and grabs whiff against step. However, note not all do and not in all situations. That is what keeps the game interesting.

I will say this, I've never been embarrassed to be a SC player. From now on however, I will make it a point that it be noted which SC I play to avoid confusing with other, less favorably behaved players.

-The Soul Still Burns (just not here)
-Badger
 
I have a feeling this thread would have went a whole better if you kept your points short and concise. The enormous blocks of text dont just encourage people to not read them, but it'll make most replies to it either extremely short or equally huge as a result. But you shouldnt be too discouraged, there's plenty of people who still like the game here.

As for the topic itself, SCll isnt my thing personally. I'm not a fan of how easy it is to get frame advantage and how safe most of the movement and attacks seem to be. It doesnt help that this remake that bamco produced is kind of a hot mess.
 
It's just a bunch of narrow minded trolls who can't be talked to and will just talk shit and try to flame bait you.

I will say this, I've never been embarrassed to be a SC player. From now on however, I will make it a point that it be noted which SC I play to avoid confusing with other, less favorably behaved players.

Now see, I was cool with you explaining the game and all. But if you want to base your entire forum experience on a few narrow-minded posts, that's on you my man. (If you think 8WR has it bad, go check out SRK or TYM)

I came in with SC4, and all that was heard in the background, from nostalgia-ridden players, was how no SC game would ever be as good as SC2 in its day. So the game gets re-released, and you hear lots of "I-told-you-so" from both sides.

At the end of the day, we all love fighting games as a whole. I'm not the biggest SC2 fan myself, but info is appreciated. There will always be trolls on the internet, I don't care where you go. Is it really that hard to just ignore the non-constructive things?
 
The problem is is that the game has a lack of balance, stepping is ridiculously stupid
in this game. If I read a person's step, and respond with a horizontal, they should be punished, simple. Taking that away and giving them obnoxious gimmicks to give them a "get out of jail free" card just isn't my idea of what a competitive game should be. Competitive games should be about balance, for every move, there should be one to stop ot or counter it. Take that away and that's what gets a game labeled ad broken. My second problem with it is the character imbalances, but I'm not even going to get on yhat topic now.

Btw, don't tell people to not come on the forum when your first post is pretty much flamebait and doing nothing but mocking the newer gen players for not liking SCII like you. If you need to explain your point, fine. just sum it up and don't fire shots at other members if you don't want that same thing to happen to you.
 
When the argument for is "throw or use a low three characters have!" Then the argument isn't that compelling. Especially when it is presented in a pointlessly hostile and rambling manner.
 
Before posting anything, I asked around to some of the players I know about 8WR. They almost unanimously said to avoid it. It's just a bunch of narrow minded trolls who can't be talked to and will just talk shit and try to flame bait you.
That's weird that you would ask your friends about 8wayrun since it seems you have already made an account http://8wayrun.com/members/fabulocity.5631/

Unless there are multiple IEBG Honey Badgers....
 
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