Early Frame Data Analysis

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WuHT

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I haven't perfected the methodology yet, but here we go:

In terms of impact speed

• 6B
• AA / 2A / 4K
• 3K / BB / 4K
• 2K / 6K / 2B / 214B
• 6B+K / 6A / 1B / b2
• 4A / 236B / 2A+B /3A / 1A / 66K / 3B
• 4B / 66B+K / 1K
• 8K

• 8B

• 8A
You can validate my data here. Just remember that verticals can crush horizontals, and there are TC/TJ frames we gotta consider. My gut feeling is obviously that each tier is 1 frame apart, but it "could" be 2 frames apart due to sheer coincidence

In terms of +/- frames on hit: I'll reference after impact, how the moves can trade

• 6BBB / K / 6A / b2B= neutral on hit (ie 3K will clash with 4K)

• A is +, and lets u step up 1 tier (ie after A will trade with 6B, 2B will trade with B, 236B will trade with 6B+K)
• B is – , and steps down 1 tier (ie 6B will trade with K, 236B will clash with 66B+K)

• 2A is +, and steps up 2 tiers (ie 6B+K will trade with 3K/BB)
• 8K is +, steps up 2 tiers (2B trades with AA/K, BB trades witth 6BB)
• B2 is +, steps up 2 tiers (B trades with 6B, 6A trades with B)
• BB is –, and steps down 2 tiers (ie BB/3K trades with 6BB, 2K trades with 2A)
• 2K is –, steps down 2 tiers (ie 6BB trades with 3K/BB, 8K trades with 8B)
• 1B is –, steps down 2 tiers (2A trades with 2K, 2K trades with 1A/236B)

• 6K is+ steps up 3 tiers (3A trades BB/3K)

• 4K is +, steps up 4 tiers (6A trades with 6B)

I haven't tested on block data, but this should be a good start so we can
 
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darkfender

[10] Knight
Dunno if it helps but 236:B punish the same things the old counterpart of scIV and scV punished (nightmare/Ivy) not really expert on names (Always remember fraamleist visually) but for example the piroette stepping vertical mid of Night with the huge pushback pnly raph could punish.

I'd say its the exact speed of old games.

And Always was matter of frames.
infact 236B without JF won't work.
 
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WuHT

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yeah it's entirely possible taht each "tier" is really 2 frames.

Raph's 6BB trading with Taki's AA and beating out sophie's AA (not crush due to B>A) is really impressive.
 
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LOVELAIN

[01] Neophyte
WR B seems as fast as 6B

AB is 0 on hit

3A is unsafe

66B seems punishable even if you go into prep (prep 4 doesn't even come out in time to GI 2As) unless you space it really well

236B is slightly unsafe, can be punished by 6B or WR B

214B is super unsafe, punishable by 236:B

3 seems decent on block, prep 4 GIs 2As, SE avoids AAs and prep B beats out at least Raph's BB

1 on hit same as 3 on block

44K can be punished by 6B or WR B

66A+B seems like it's -1 on block (6B loses to 6B, clashes with AA)

1K on hit same as 66A+B on block

66[B+K] is plus on block, prep A beats out 6B

b4 is safe, but you can't step a 6B retaliation on block, can step most other verticals though

4 is okay on block, prep 4 will GI 2As, prep B will clash with BB and trade with 3K, SE deals with anything else that's fast

33B is 0 on hit

9B is punishable by 6B or WR B

22BB can be punished by 214:B

I think that's most of the important stuff? Tested by recording the dummy doing these sequences and trying to punish/interrupt them.
 

LOVELAIN

[01] Neophyte
How do you know its -1 on block and not -2 ?
You're right, I was operating under the assumption that 6B is a frame faster than AA, but I don't actually know for sure. My bad. Can't tell you the exact number then, but it still is a pretty safe move.
 

Renpai

[01] Neophyte
Rough draft Raphael Frame Data: (Compared using SilentWall's Seong Mi-Na Frame Data - https://8wayrun.com/threads/sc6-frame-data-archive.20427/)

i10 - 6B
i11 - A
i12 - 2A / K / 46K
i14 - 3K / 4K / B /
i16 - 2K / 2B / 6K / 66B / 214B
i18 - 1B / 6B+K / 6A / b2
i19 - 46B / 4A+B?
i20 - 3B / 2A+B / 66K / 236B / 236:B / 4A / 1A / 3A / 46A
i22 - 1K / 4B / 66B+K /
i25 - B4 / 6A+B
i30 - 44B?

SAFE (BELOW -10) - A, AA, B, K, 3K, 46K, 1B, 2A, 2B, 1A, ws A, BT A, BT 2A, BT 2B, BT K, BT 2K, BB:B, BBK, b2B, b4, 7/8/9B
-10 - 66K, BBB
-11 - ws B (max range)?
-13 - 3A, 46A, 7/8/9A, 6B, 46B (max range), ws B (close range), ws BB
-14 - 4B, 6A, 6AA, 4A (max range), 3B, 6BB, BB, BB : B :B, 46B (close range), FC 3B
-15 - 4A (close range), 66B, 6BBB, 6BB:B,
-17 - 214B
 
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WuHT

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I have A clashing with K a lot.

Do you have any setups that show A beating K clean at neutral ? I've tried 6A on hit, 1K, AB, 33B, K on hit
 

LOVELAIN

[01] Neophyte
>236:B is i20
>214:B is -17
I can't speak for the rest of your data, but at least one of these is definitely wrong. I recorded the dummy doing 214:B and blocking afterwards and 236:B scores a Lethal Hit against that.
 

Nomad_Trooper

[09] Warrior
You're right, I was operating under the assumption that 6B is a frame faster than AA, but I don't actually know for sure. My bad. Can't tell you the exact number then, but it still is a pretty safe move.
Glad to hear this. I have 66A+B so ingrained into muscle memory as safe on guard.
 
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WuHT

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Early Frame Data Analysis By ottockwu (Horizontal ,Vertical ,Kick ,Dual Button ,8-Way Run ,Preparation ,Aerial Shift ,Shadow Evade ,Quick Parade
Reference File PDF
how'd you get plus 1 for A ? I have +2 for it. Tested A on hit, AA and K trades with 6BB
 

darkfender

[10] Knight
Was looking at frame data...
I see there is no mention about tech crouch frames on 66B+K
and the move definitely has some TC frames.or am i wrong?

I Always use it to go under Nightmare/yoshi highs and it works….unless there is something i am ignoring.