Fighting Against Rocks: Z.W.E.I. Matchup Thread

I realise this may not be a forum sympathetic to my plight, but I have real trouble fighting Z.W.E.I. players. I have no idea what I'm doing against him. I find myself shaking in my boots when faced with pretty much any Z.W.E.I. user. Does anyone have any tips for fighting him? What gimmicks do people abuse that I can punish or watch out for? What sort of stuff do you really hate? If it helps, I use Viola.
 
Synalon said:
I realise this may not be a forum sympathetic to my plight, but I have real trouble fighting Z.W.E.I. players. I have no idea what I'm doing against him. I find myself shaking in my boots when faced with pretty much any Z.W.E.I. user. Does anyone have any tips for fighting him? What gimmicks do people abuse that I can punish or watch out for? What sort of stuff do you really hate? If it helps, I use Viola.
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4(A) - step Ein and punish
1(B) - duck Ein and punish
1(B)K - block kick, duck Ein
66A+B - GI Ein, there's no other way around this one

Gimmicks? hmm...
3B > 1(B)K - don't roll anywhere. Quickly stand up and block the kick
A+G > 4B* > 66(A+B) - roll to the right to avoid most set ups... err... ALL set ups actually

Here' the thing though, with Viola you can pretty much keep him at bay and/or interrupt his hold set ups. So if you see someone holding Ein for a long time, quickly AA or 2A them. Otherwise I'd recommend you keep zoning him. Zwei NEEDS to be in your face to represent a threat... if any.
 
Zane said:
4(A) - step Ein and punish
1(B) - duck Ein and punish
1(B)K - block kick, duck Ein
66A+B - GI Ein, there's no other way around this one

Gimmicks? hmm...
3B > 1(B)K - don't roll anywhere. Quickly stand up and block the kick
A+G > 4B* > 66(A+B) - roll to the right to avoid most set ups... err... ALL set ups actually

Here' the thing though, with Viola you can pretty much keep him at bay and/or interrupt his hold set ups. So if you see someone holding Ein for a long time, quickly AA or 2A them. Otherwise I'd recommend you keep zoning him. Zwei NEEDS to be in your face to represent a threat... if any.
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Thank you! I'll try this stuff out in practice.
 
Also learn to JG the wolf in 66A+B. ZWEI is safe still but you gain some meter for ToDs and you're left up in his face, which is the last place on the screen ZWEI wants Viola at.
 
I understand her mix ups, unblockable setups, strings etc. I do not understand however to prevent AA from breaking my 66a+b setup ( which is a real pain ) also AA beats 214 b. I know zwei is sluggish but I don't want to rely on mitsu for this matchup against my friend. Am I not setting up 66a+b correctly? I usually do it after a knockdown like a+b or is this just the matchup?
 
Hey Psi
You may have posted this before we met and got to discuss some strats but im gonna answer again for the sake of other readers.
Youre gonna have to use the poking game much more sparringly in this MU because Natsu's pokes are just plain faster than your own, the only way to get her to freeze is to use your pokes with some advantage behind you, How do you get advantage u ask? going for a GB attack after blocking an unsafe attack rather than getting a chip punish.

Also for this MU youre gonna want to use a different mix up after a successfully blocked 214B

Natsu's AA is 10 frames which even after a blocked 214B will beat out BB/(B) which is the usual counter for opponents trying to attack striaght away. Natsu's AA also beats out, backstep, sidestep, any attack i15 or higher(i14 trades), 6A+B, or throw, upon doing so gives natsu a CH AAB (49 damage) and leaves u both at 0 which is bad place to be in this MU.

If youre completely sure the Natsu is going to AA, you can duck and WRB punish for 80 damage or 4(a) which will TC under it, these are risky moves as Nastu can 66B you out of either of these AA counters.

So imo the best move to cover most options is 2A, being fast enough to beat out other attacks, TCing under AA/4a+ba and catch step.

BUT THEN natsu can do 8A a jumping, stepcatching mid which gives KND meaning she has a constant mix up between AA and 8A........ BUT! you have a move to beat both these options if your aware your opponent might do either, 4(A) beats both but as mentioned before its risky

So u could say your mix up options after a blocked 214B are 2A, 4(A) and grab/214B. Yeah odds of guessing out youre opponent is in their favour but thats the beauty of being a ZWEI player! making a educated guesses based off your opponents playstyle.

i will add more to this another time
 
Your right I did post this up before hand. and since reading this I setup natsu's 66b and I believe if you don't hold she can't 66b you out of it. and if she tried you get CH.
 
darkwings13 said:
Question, does anyone have advice against O.Pyrrha? Please and thank you.
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Try to play as safely as you can while also zoning her. Be sure to not let her follow-up with anything after a blocked 66B, DNS B, and take heed of 4B because of the advantage it grants her on block. Its range is not quite as long as Pyrrha's 4B but hits Mid if I'm not mistaken. Be careful with how you utilize highs because of 236B. When you have her on the defensive, you can pile on the pressure with safe strings. Omega has better range than Pyrrha but only really gets good damage from punishment or involvement from her CE.

How do you fare against vanilla Pyrrha? Because she's more of a pain in the ass than Omega.
 
I wrote this in the Astaroth SA about a month ago and never wrote it here in the bloody ZWEI MU thread. Derp!

I'm feeling pretty ballsy and I say the Astaroth vs ZWEI MU is only 6:4 in Astaroth's favor.
I say Astaroth has the advantage because of how well he can keep out of ZWEI's range and possessing 66K BE which counters a lot of his pokes so you have to be wary of that whenever he has meter.

Well bitch ZWEI is a high risk high reward character too!

Astaroth has his damaging command grabs but in this MU if ZWEI guesses correctly and ducks under it he gets a WRB combo punish for 80 damage meterless (more with meter) which is just as much damage as the grab would of done.

Getting in is the hardest thing about this MU. You're going to need good movement and yomi to get in without at least taking a little risk. Common moves Astaroth uses to keep the distance include 4A, 44A, 6B, 22B, 44B. You're going to be wanting to whiff punish, GI or JG these moves in order to successfully get up to in Asta's face. 22B can be stepped on reaction and on JG its -33 so punish with 66A+B.

If anyone has listened to the ZWEI Soulcast(if not I suggest you do) we discussed him to be also be played as a poking character. 2A, 2K, B, 6B, 9B etc. are effective against him to pester him and keep him in one spot. However on the flip side Astaroth has his powerful off me tool 66K BE which is very useful to get out of frame traps ZWEI puts on him (after 214B for example), once again this is a big risk by Astaroth because if sniffed out becomes an easy JG punish with 66BA or 3B if you want to use meter.

All about the reads!
 
AndyrooxDS said:
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Taking the +12 off CH {B} to dash in is also a good way to get in vs Astaroth. But watch out for 66K BE, the armor goes through pretty much every frame trap after {B}. {B} its self is also a good counter to 66K BE, Asta gets spiked by Ein after the armor activates. I find being aggressive without being led around by your opponent (staying free to 6A+B*JG) is one of the best ways to deal with Astaroth.
Aside from that it feels more like a 7:3 matchup in Asta's favor unfortunately.
In order punish Astaroth's Throws post duck you almost have to buffer the WR B (especially online). So even with training, while being cautious during the match (keep in mind), they will most likely block it 35% of the time. Because it takes so much dedication to read the opponent in the matchup, if they commit to 4B it really hurts.
66K BE on JG is more efficiently punished by 3B and I think 66B might be too slow to punish.
 
Ramus said:
Hey guys, how should I play against Maxi?
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Yo
Learning his strings and where to interrupt/backstep will help you(make sure your whiff punising them)
Playing keepout in this MU is the key
7K to create space when he right in your face
Ein charges at mid-far range
66A+B but be wary of WRB+K, if you can get him to block the first hit your good
A+B is good aswell, because with a little bit of spacing he cant punish it without meter.
2A to keep him in place.
Also make sure you are out of his 6a+b range
 
Can I use 6A if I am close and need a step kill?
Also, is in any stance where I can use 6B+K A+B A+B (God I wanted it was a safer combo.)
(Also thanks for the material.)
 
Ramus said:
Can I use 6A if I am close and need a step kill?
Also, is in any stance where I can use 6B+K A+B A+B (God I wanted it was a safer combo.)
(Also thanks for the material.)
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Well its good on CH if your sure they are gonna step, but Maxi can very easily WR B+K around it, i would just 2A ftw
 
Also this is handy vs Maxi.
His 66K or the same kick out of his stance is -2 on block
A common follow up by the maxi player is a 2A, however a 2A from ZWEI will beat it out, so Maxi players start using jump B to punish a 2A response.
A option zwei has to beat "2A/ jump B or anything slower is 3K because its a i14 mid
This is actaully one of the very few times 3K is useful
 
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