FSAK Low Tier Leftovers Character Legality Thread

I think NM and Taki both are better than people give them credit for, but I'd still put NM above her overall.

Also, most of the low tier characters, (most of the cast actually), lack super great lows to make your opponents duck. Most are either reactable or they aren't scary enough on hit to bait ducking. Unless you're like Amy, Mitsu, Setsuka, or maybe LM, throws are usually a character's best tool against people who refuse to duck.
 
KingAce said:
Really I think Taki's so called pressure which is pretty much PO is weak sauce if you know how to stop it.
Yeah i agree with that. Same as for the NM vs Sieg matchups. I really think in a way it depends on WHO is playing those chars and HOW they play. If a person is good at guessing what his/her opponent is about to do or just can read them well, then i would play with Sieg. Just because in a low teir matchup it would be nice to have a 17frame TC 3B attack that does good damage. And sense most low teir chars can be ez punished with bad moves and expected high attacks, thats a nice move to have. But if a person has great defense then i would go with NM because they can catch someone slipping and get a ez ringout or wall combo.
Thats just what i think though :) I like Raph and then NM the best out of all the low tier also haha
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I'm giving this thread until Friday then I will decide the issue from there.

I would like more discussion on why Sig/NM/LM should/should not be allowed. Those seem to be the biggest "on the fence" characters.

-Idle
 
LM should be allowed imo cause hes just all around well balanced, if you can block 1K you find out really quick why he is mid tier

sig is lower mid cause he has no lows that aren't stance bound and hes retardedly unsafe

NM is higher mid in my opinion but Im probally alone in that sentiment so what ever, wouldn't mind him being legal though
 
Lizardman is like Warui said, well balanced all around. Pretty much none of the other characters on that list are good at everything. Lizardman has no weaknesses to exploit.

Siegfried's entire game is basically about locking down so he can grab you. His best mixup mid is 3(B), and 3(B) sucks. Most of his attacks from stances aren't really worth shit, so he should be on the list.

Nightmare is better at range that Sieg, better at punishment and damage than Sieg. Nightmare has a real good 66K which is better than any mid Sieg has. Nightmare has much better ability to evade and a better pressure game, so if you were to put him on the list, he'd be the best character after Lizardman. BUT Nightmare isn't the fastest character in the world, so most of the lower tiers can still handle him fairly and lock him down fairly easily.

so, just don't put Lizardman on there, and keep everyone else that was mentioned on there, and it's fair. Otherwise, Lizardman is gonna win, if I go. hehe
 
I think Siegfried is better than both Lizardman and Nightmare. Lizardman just has easier to abuse tools.

Sieg's CF game is pretty relevant and he does evade pretty well with his stances. Nightmare's only real evasive stance is NSS and that's only if he does it manually. NM's step is better, but I don't think a good step is enough to qualify or disqualify a character from being legal. Sieg does decent damage and has good tech traps as well... even though he takes risks. He can space better than the other two also.

As far as damage is concerned, Liz gets the most off of simple, safe stuff. NM does do good damage, but it's pretty much all unsafe. Liz has no good lows to make people duck EXCEPT 1K, and if that's being reacted to, he needs to throw and work the gauge. His throw range is garbage so this is where his weaknesses show. CH 66A is annoying but not much else once it's shaken. Spaces decently.

NM is a risk/reward character and ends up relying on this more often than Sieg or Liz. He is fast though. (iWSB, agA, 6K, etc.) NM has to rely on throws too in order to be dangerous since he has no real way of mixing up otherwise. Tech traps are nice, damage is potentially high depending mostly on opponent mistakes and guessing, whereas Liz and Sieg can do damage without as much guessing.

I'd say Sieg is too strong for the sake of this tourney even though he isn't high tier.

Lizardman I believe is too strong as well, but not to the degree that Sieg is.

NM is certainly stronger overall than just about all the remaining legal characters, but I'm not sure if he's too strong for this range of tiers.
 
Agree with basically everything Zero said. Sieg may be a little ways ahead of the crowd. With the exception of maybe Lizardman getting nice damage off of simple stuff I don't think any of the remaining characters outshine any of the others to the point where any one character may dominate the rest.

And, just my two cents, but, except with closing the distance and grab range, I think think Siggy outshines NM in every other single way (well, stepping too, but Siggy makes up for it with his stepkillers).
 
You guys are on crack if you think Lizardman and Seig should be in the low tier tourny.
 
It's funny how for a while everybody considered Vader low to mid because of how slow and linear he is. And then after I mained him people realized that he is a good character. Makes ya think what other characters people are considering shitty because no one uses them.

Malice said:
I don't care where you put these people, but this tournament should be limited to the following:

Zasalamel, Taki, Raphael, Nightmare, The Apprentice, Yun-Seong, Maxi, Talim, Tira, Rock, Seong Mi-na, Yoda

My only question is regarding Nightmare. I think he is better than people give him credit for and is the best character on this list. If he's allowed, then the winner of the tournament will be a Nightmare player. If not, oh well. But most are pretty much in agreement who should be in this tournament.
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So you believe that a character determines the winner and not the player? heh.

But I like your list so far. I'd add Lizardman and Siegfried to that list. They're not that much more of a threat than a couple of the other characters already listed.
 
OOFMATIC said:
It's funny how for a while everybody considered Vader low to mid because of how slow and linear he is. And then after I mained him people realized that he is a good character. Makes ya think what other characters people are considering shitty because no one uses them.
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You mean like this?
sWoRD_LoRD said:
I think we can all agree, no matter who's allowed in it, Seung Mina is fucked either way.
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This is the reason why I believe this game is more balanced than lots of people say. The gaps between tier levels aren't quite as wide as everyone thinks.

People are so quick to jump on the bandwagon and say so-and-so is hopeless, or complete trash, after spending only a few weeks trying to learn them. Then guys like Omega, Kura, or you Oof, or InsaneKhent, and (yeah I'll say it) myself as well, come along and show that these characters are capable of much more than originally thought if the player is willing to stick through it and work hard.

OOFMATIC said:
But I like your list so far. I'd add Lizardman and Siegfried to that list. They're not that much more of a threat than a couple of the other characters already listed.
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In my opinion, the main concern then wouldn't be how threatening they are. Because this is, primarily, a low tiers based tourney, it's not good to have too many decidedly mid-tier or higher characters involved. If it was a "no high tier" tourney, I'd completely agree. But since the focus of this side tourney is on decidedly weaker characters, it might be a bit much. Especially concerning Siegfried.

It won't hurt me either way, but that's my input on it.
 
Remember people, the name is something of a misnomer.

The characters who would be legal for this tournament are considered B and C tier on an S/A/B/C Tierlist!

The first post explains it all! DON'T SKIP IT!

Please continue!

-Idle
 
Honestly, if you allow Sieg, Jian will make top 3 AT LEAST. Why would you hold a 'fun' tourny where one player will completely dominate and its set in stone.

Lizzy, I'd put him at uppermid, he's overall a solid character.

NM, I'd say he's B. let him in.

But what do I know? I'm just some kid.
 
Looking back at the first post again, and more importantly at the examples of each respective tier placing (S,A,B, and C)
Mitsurugi is considered A-tier and thus too strong for this. I would consider Siegfried/Lizardman at Mitsu's level, or at least only slightly lower.

I kinda still like Rigel's philosophy that if there's this much uncertainty over a character they probably shouldn't be there. But to look at it under the boundaries of the 1st post, NM is the only one of the three that wouldn't make it out of B-tier in my opinion.
 
IdleMind said:
Remember people, the name is something of a misnomer.

The characters who would be legal for this tournament are considered B and C tier on an S/A/B/C Tierlist!

The first post explains it all! DON'T SKIP IT!

Please continue!

-Idle
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If that's the case, then debatable characters like sieg, nightmare, lizardman, and X should be allowed. I would put these characters in B tier.
 
Because they're are no good Siegfried Lizardman or Nightmare players in the US to justify these characters into high tier. You all suck with them.

We done here?
 
Definitely NOT:
Algol
Amy
Astaroth
Cervantes
Hilde
Ivy
Kilik
Mitsurugi
Setsuka
Yoshimitsu
Voldo

Definitely SHOULD:
Maxi
Nightmare
Raphael
Rock
Seong Mi-Na
Taki
Talim
Tira
Yun-Seong
Zasalamel

DEBATEABLE:
Cassandra
Lizardman
Siegfried
Sophitia
Xianghua

I really only see this as a debate between 5 characters making it and really I'd lean towards having the 2 sisters excluded and have the other 3 listed as low enough tier.
 
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