Good Games Thread

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KrayzieCD said:
GGs to Nirf today. Voldo A+B is indeed a great move but lucky for me it's so linear. Also 2A+B is easily steppable/rollable....Voldo in general is pretty steppable. You let me get away with one glaring thing in our matches though, I wonder if you figure out what. Has to do with oki.
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He let u roll up on him? Lol
 
Krayzie, good of you to shout out GG"s when you were whooping me so badly. GG's to you too, very smart play, took advantage of many of my patterns very quickly and overall just adapted more quickly than me. Superior player hands down. I just hope I can give you better competition in the future.
A+B is steppable, easier to one side than the other I believe so you probably want to try stepping it to Voldo's left.
On your oki, or mine? I've never played a legit Maxi before, so I have lots of work to do on that. You probably noticed I randomly did a zillion 2A's where I could have started a legit attack. Thanks out to dustbuster and all similar Maxi's for that terrible habit.
One thing I could not figure out is how you read my 2A+B perfectly. If I followed up instantly with K, you blocked. When I cancelled, you were always able to interrupt me. I have played some other very solid players online like Partisan and Static, and while they still beat me soundly and defended well against 2A+B they were not able to do what you did, even with a better connection. Were you just anticipating correctly over and over? Using some kind of progressive defence? Or is it really just reaction? I didn't think it was possible to beat 2A+B on reaction like that.
Was the oki thing that I kept letting you roll left against 2A+B, when I should have punished that roll with 236B which tracks left?
 
Nirf said:
Krayzie, good of you to shout out GG"s when you were whooping me so badly. GG's to you too, very smart play, took advantage of many of my patterns very quickly and overall just adapted more quickly than me. Superior player hands down. I just hope I can give you better competition in the future.
A+B is steppable, easier to one side than the other I believe so you probably want to try stepping it to Voldo's left.
On your oki, or mine? I've never played a legit Maxi before, so I have lots of work to do on that. You probably noticed I randomly did a zillion 2A's where I could have started a legit attack. Thanks out to dustbuster and all similar Maxi's for that terrible habit.
One thing I could not figure out is how you read my 2A+B perfectly. If I followed up instantly with K, you blocked. When I cancelled, you were always able to interrupt me. I have played some other very solid players online like Partisan and Static, and while they still beat me soundly and defended well against 2A+B they were not able to do what you did, even with a better connection. Were you just anticipating correctly over and over? Using some kind of progressive defence? Or is it really just reaction? I didn't think it was possible to beat 2A+B on reaction like that.
Was the oki thing that I kept letting you roll left against 2A+B, when I should have punished that roll with 236B which tracks left?
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As far as 2A+B, I'm so used to seeing that cancel thanks to Manta out here in NorCal. He was one of the play testers for SC4 and had figured it out before the game even released so once it dropped he bombarded everyone with it and we quickly got used to the animation. So I soon as I see Voldo do his little spaz cancel after 2A+B I attack. No cancel and I just guard, tapping down quickly to try to block the possible followup 236B but it's harder to time online.

You were right about the oki problem too. Once you knocked me down while you were front turned you went for 2A+B at least 90% of the time and I would just roll to my right and avoid it. Also, when you would knock me down while in BT you would immediately go for the 1A/3B mixup which I am also able to roll to avoid. You should have been 2King the hell out of me in BT while I'm grounded rolling around, that's what Manta and Sorrybaskets do to force me to stand up. After enough of those 2Ks people are gonna start standing and guarding to try to avoid getting chipped to death and that's when you get em with the BT 3B/1A mix.

I noticed you don't really use Voldo's 3B/3BB mixup much, why is that? I know that online this is even more powerful because you can't GI on reaction but you still gotta use it along with his other normal SG raping tools. Tech crouch, safe, relatively fast mid that rapes the SG. I always hated that move but since you never used it it was one less worry for me.
 
I just don't really think that mixup is in his favor if your opponent defends properly. First of all, you don't even have to guess at the GI, 3BB is steppable in between. I think you can probably just step and attack and be at advantage even if he only does 3B, but even if not you can definitely always step G and be safe. Then if he finishes 3BB it's free damage. A+B is better in every way in my mind minus the gauge damage. So I only play 3BB games when my opponent is in the red and its really intimidating.
Are you saying that 2A+B~cancels and so on are completely reactable then? In that case the move is kind of worthless no? After all, the 236B/K mixup can be reacted to. If the cancel doesn't let you continue attacking, then it's just an i25 move that does moderate normal hit damage and is -3. I'm really surprised, I've seen the move used so extensively in videos of high level play and I never saw anyone manhandle it the way you did.
Yeah the oki I remembered at some point throughout the problem again its just instinct I see someone grounded I 2A+B because so few players understand how to avoid it grounded. Basically I play too many mediocre people and develop bad habits. The same thing with 2K'ing people. I've come across that before as well, but lately everyone I've played just keeps standing into the mixup.

PS Dang, I even remember a thread somewhere or other completely random where people were talking about balance, and Hajime made a brief comment about how good the 2A+B cancel was, and he is also a top player from NorCal, no?
 
Oh, and since I almost never post here, let me say GG's to the various people I've been play a lot with recently: Leon Dangerous, Cass is Better (Niz), Hammertime (who is this out of curiosity?), lasercakes, swolf, and whoever else I played from this site we probably had good games.

Leon I really need to ask you for tips on how to stop getting raped by you.

Edit: I started reading the thread. So, A+B into A+B covers grab, mid speed highs (it shouldn't work against AA but then there is the pushback, it depends on the starting range but I wouldn't count on it), and opponent running in for grab/mid mixup. I apologize that its boosted online but to be honest there's enough blockstun that if you can't interrupt it with say Sieg 3B its partly your own fault. Unlike say Sieg 3B where I literally have 1-2 frames margin of error to punish, hmmm? It loses to any very fast high, or medium speed or better mids. The payoff from A+B on hit is almost 60 damage + a grab attempt, i.e. around 80 damage on normal hit. So, getting BB'ed for 30 damage isn't such a big deal. On the other hand, if you land this move once you will scare your opponent into NOT running in and trying to grab you. That's a big deal. Even attempting the move and failing, means the next time you land A+B on block its more likely your opponent just does a mid instead of running in and grabbing.

I think some people on 8wr take the "don't attack on - frames" stuff too much to heart, and just allow themselves to get super predictable. The people on 8wr who make me look silly (so far: Partisan, Static, Leon and Krayzie) use a combination of step, attacking at -frames, GI's, etc every single possible technique to make it very unclear what I should do after I have blocked their attack.

One way to take advantage of a player who is too predictable in respecting - frames is to grab. A player who never attacks at disadvantage gives you free reign to move around, = free reign to run in and grab. My match vs laser today I grabbed him like 5-6 times in one round, maybe more. On the other hand krayzie did exactly the same thing to me.

Frame data is important, but since every strategy can be beaten by some other strategy, the most important thing is not to be predictable. This is why Krayzie crushes me, and I crush some other players on this site: there is a big gap in how fast each player is adapting to counter the patterns that the other one is using.
 
There is no general offline good game thread and I want to give them a shout out for the good games and times.
GGs again to hawkeye, thuggish pond, and lost providence. I really have to work on my hesitation and locking up now that lost providence pointed it out.
 
Nirf: Hammertime is Sword Lord, an ATL player. He was actually quite famous around the forums in the past for various reasons. A solid player IMO, no matter what you may hear about him lol.

Hajime is a top Yoshi player who used to live in NorCal but now lives in Japan. He has plenty of Voldo experience also thanks to Manta and Sorrybaskets. Actually from the last FT10 Hajime played against Sorrybaskets it made me believe that Voldo owns Yoshi. Baskets was able to counter pretty much all of Yoshi's shenanigans somehow someway. I wish I could upload that match but it was recorded on my camera and loaded on my computer, both of which were stolen when my apt was robbed.
 
GG's last night to Talim JP 360, for a california to japan connection. Most of our matches were playable! That was good fun, nice to finally get a chance to talk/play you!!

HRD
 
GGs to Nirf, Oreo, Mateo, and Pink(Sorry dude you're "Pink" forever now).

Nirf said:
Snipped, stuff about A+B into A+B
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The problem I've had with this move is I've had no idea what to do after it. You will block any mid and just gain frame advantage again. If I try to throw, I'll get hit by it. I didn't know you could step it until Krayzie called it linear. If I step to your left I get hit. Stepping to your right works, but if I go for a whiff punish too early with TAS B, I still get hit out of it. So I need to get the timing right. I feel like I've played you and Enkindu a lot and leave learning nothing about the match up.

Also, I feel like your mix-ups still do gain a lot of strength online. It's not the animation unsee-able that makes me anticipate an unsee-able low, but it's your see-able behavior. Sometimes you'll freeze for second and I know a mix-up is coming. I 2G and get 2B+Ked anyway, because it's still late even though I started thinking about 2Ging before I even saw the start-up frames of the move.

I can not see an unsee-able low, but I can be conditioned to expect a mix-up after seeing a certain behavior such as Amy stepping into 2B+K range. But if I anticipate the certain behavior which leads to lows and 2G expecting that behavior I simply just end up eating mids. I think this is pretty difficult to articulate clearly, but I agree with RedDjinn, that your mix-ups are stronger than they should be online.
 
Everything offensive is stronger online, including backstep into whiff punish. There is no question that online boosts offense at the expense of defense universally, because offensive is action and defense is reaction. Some of those times when you backstepped and caused me to whiff for example; offline the gap between what I see and what I do would be zero instead of half a dozen frames, and I could react better to your backstepping.
I know exactly how you feel and I understand your frustration. Many times vs Red for example, I smell FC3K coming and I want to guess, but even my guess comes out too late to block it successfully. But there's no point complaining about that.
As for A+B into A+B vs other options; there are no blanket answers! That's the whole point. I can block after A+B, or I can A+B again, but I can't do both. Just like you can either do a heavy mid, or run in and mixup, but not both. Let me point out though with TASB giving you 80 damage at < i20 on normal hit you are well equipped to discourage my frame cheating.
Step is a pretty good answer vs Voldo because it covers so many of my options. Though as always, if you step and I am guarding and waiting for you to step, it's probably hard to actually punish it but I do get the initiative back most likely. You have to step a lot vs Voldo though, even if you are successful blocking you eat so much gauge damage it becomes a problem. So stepping a lot is key.
The best would be; try to record our matches, or maybe I will, and then we can analyze later.
 
Nirf said:
As for A+B into A+B vs other options; there are no blanket answers! That's the whole point. I can block after A+B, or I can A+B again, but I can't do both. Just like you can either do a heavy mid, or run in and mixup, but not both. Let me point out though with TASB giving you 80 damage at < i20 on normal hit you are well equipped to discourage my frame cheating.
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This is true, but I think you both are forgetting about Sophie's 1K. 1K is useable at high disadvantage (though -7 for voldo's A+B cuts it close) to CH tech crouches netting good oki and getting an ok reward just in case they guard. The move is also slow enough to catch step-into-blind-whiff-punish-attempt as well, so you'd do well to add that to your offensive mixup game, Laser.
 
A bit of housekeeping:
Online: GG's to Lasercakes.
Offline: GG's to: Zaigonen, Age of Truth, Will, Chronic Smoke UK, Kilik 21, Sotiris, Jools, Andy & Blade
 
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