Hate Speech: QS4G Is Basically Satan

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I have a confession to make. I’ve been breaking one of my own rules by refusing to share the existence of Quick Step~4G (hereafter known as QS4G or step guard) or any related tech, despite having known about it for a while. This wasn’t some pathetic attempt to maintain a marginal unfair advantage over everyone else, though. My previous silence is in fact due to the incredibly deleterious effect this sort of glitch is bound to have on high level play.

It’s no secret that I want SCV to get big and have a long competitive lifespan, and I think most everyone taking the time to read and participate here at 8wayrun share those desires, but, in addition to all of that, I want SCV to be good. Step guard in all its prior incarnations has always undermined SOULCALIBUR’s competitive depth, and that was within more conventional, passivity-friendly game systems.

SCV, with its focus on active decision-making and de-emphasis of low/mid mixups, is particularly vulnerable to serious damage if such a bug becomes an active and necessary component of high level matches. It wasn’t going to remain unknown forever, unfortunately, and now that its existence is becoming increasingly common knowledge throughout our community, we need to look at it objectively, consider its potential impact, and calmly but firmly begin rattling our sabers a little bit. We, as the community, are the first and arguably most important line of defense when it comes to ensuring that we have a clean, balanced, respectable game.

The Story Thus Far

SC veterans will no doubt have some degree of familiarity with step guard, but let’s give it a brief review for the sake of any newcomers. My own first encounter with it was its most egregious incarnation, that of SCII’s step~G. Essentially, all a player had to do was press and hold G immediately after initiating a sidestep. His character would then proceed to step normally, avoiding vertical attacks, while at the same time allowing for the immediate and automatic cancel of sidestep into a blocking state should his opponent elect to use a horizontal attack. The net result of this was that it was damn hard to hit people; defense wasn’t a particularly active or risky task because there was no real effective means to discourage lateral movement.

Naptime.jpg
Above: An audience getting hype for SC2 action!
SCIII and SCIV each had their own versions of step guard, and while neither was as infuriatingly mindless as that which plagued SCII, it certainly can’t be argued that it made those respective games better. SCIII and IV step guard bugs were input in precisely the same manner as that of SCII, but in both cases the initial sidestep ended up being somewhat abbreviated and the guarding didn’t actually kick in immediately, thus allowing for a small number of very fast horizontals to achieve a limited utility. Step guard therefore remained a crucial element of high level play, but it was less unassailable than before. Golly gee, it was like Christmas every day of the year.

All of this brings us to SCV, a game without any form of step guard previously seen in the series. In fact, for a bit, it seemed as though we were blessedly free of it, largely due to the way lateral movement works in the game. Any sidestep or quickstep can be canceled into attacks at any point, but there is a delay before guard can kick in, theoretically making a player vulnerable to horizontal attacks when attempting to sidestep verticals, which is great (as an aside, this property of canceling movement into moves is why, when sidestepping a vertical, it’s important to make sure the move has entirely whiffed before attempting to punish it, lest you cancel your step too early and move back into the path of your enemy’s attack). Unfortunately, however, a handful of game glitches undermine this system.

It’s possible to input 4G during a quickstep near the moment of impact for a horizontal attack, thereby canceling a quickstep into the warm, comforting embrace of blocking everything. Beyond QS4G, there exist a handful of other methods to employ step guard in SCV, perhaps the easiest of which being recently shared and explained by Belial in a post here on 8wayrun. That method, sidestep~A_B_Kg, is slightly easier to do and less evasive, but it still reliably kills certain mixups, as his video demonstrates.

For those of you too lazy to click the link above and open a whole new thread.

It sounds minor, or even almost good, doesn’t it? For one, it isn’t easy to pull off; QS4G requires nimble hands and incorporates a timing element, so it’s initially difficult to execute on a consistent basis. What’s more, damage in SCV is quite high, and there’s a guard meter, so having a technical defensive option like this is nice, particularly since over-reliance on it will just get you broken, right?

Wrong.

Step Guard is Dumb, and You’re Dumb For Liking It

Bugs, glitches, advanced tech, and other little “happy accidents” will necessarily fall into one of three categories:
  1. Those which enhance gameplay, such as the very first accidental combo in Street Fighter II.
  2. Those which are tolerable or otherwise benign, such as the Algol graphical chair glitch.
  3. Those which have a diminishing effect on a game through either drastically limiting play options or just breaking a game outright, such as QS4G.
Here’s the deal: fighting games are and always will be games of emergent complexity, and oftentimes unplanned for elements end up providing us with most of the fun and strategy, but step guard has never fallen into that category, nor does this new-fangled QS4G. What it does, essentially, is make virtually every horizontal move in the game near-useless. Previous SOULCALIBUR games could push through this and retain varying degrees of complexity for systemic reasons, as it was still possible to open up an opponent through strong use of low/mid mixups and the like. SCV, however, leans heavily on vulnerable step from a design perspective. For many characters, their most crucial, devastating tactics come from intelligent application of horizontal/vertical mixups rather than low/mid, and having a universal means of negating that is profoundly limiting. In fact, it’s probably not hyperbole to suggest that, fully incorporated into everyone’s game, QS4G will make high level play into extremely boring displays of reckless grabbing and repeated attempts to break guard, since those are the only semi-reliable means most characters possess to break down an invincible step.

Balance decisions within SCV absolutely hinge on the notion that there is no 100% safe way to move around the field of play. As we know, successfully sidestepping an opponent’s vertical attack usually yields massive rewards. This is why hitting a moving opponent grants CH properties, and it’s the entire rationale behind the existence of moves like Cervantes’ 3A+B, which is unsafe on block and on normal hit, but grants a significant chunk of damage to players who can sniff out a sidestep and reap its sweet counterhit rewards.

Fate-god-hates-you-turtle.jpg
Trust me, it only feels like this. WB had some pretty sweet turtling, to be honest.

That being the case, any argument that QS4G somehow enhances the game or makes it more technical is at best vacuous and at worst cravenly self-serving. I’m sure it’s tempting to come at this from the perspective of “I hate being CH all the time and I want to move safely, so I like this bug because it benefits me,” but that just reeks of victimhood. Rather than projecting yourself into the role of the player being out-thought, outplayed, and altogether beaten down, think about what something like this potentially does to your offensive options. Do you want your opponents consistently glitching their way to safety when you’ve made a correct read? I should hope not. More importantly, irrespective of whether this glitch is good for you as an individual, it’s bad for the overall health of our game, which is something we must jealously protect. As designed, SCV encourages a thoughtful, active, fun playstyle, and the advent of large scale step guarding materially threatens that.

What Is To Be Done?

So we’ve established that this glitch, despite being somewhat tricky to perform and despite any personal relief it might provide us against skilled opponents, is a Very Bad Thing, but where does that leave us? As I said, we’re the most important first line of defense against crap that threatens to make our game insipid, so the onus is on us to be proactive. The Internet, social media sites like Twitter and Facebook, and a general sense of engagement on Namco’s part combine with a professed commitment to patching to create an environment wherein our voices should in fact carry some weight. As such, we’d damn well better speak out.

To be clear, I’m not recommending histrionics or hyperbole here, but it is important that we use our available tools to make it known that we care about having a game that functions as intended. More than any discrete question of balance, issues like QS4G have system-wide negative effects, and we need to make sure that fixing bugs like this, fuzzy guard, and anything else that pops up remain always at the top of the priority list. So please, make some noise about this. Tweet @Daishi_Calibur, post on the Facebook group, post here. Be respectful, of course, and pretend to be reasonable, sane individuals for the duration of this, but nevertheless be vocal and firm. We should all want SCV to be successful and have a long, exciting competitive lifespan. Getting this stupid bug out of our game dramatically increases the odds of that happening.

Homework:

Get on it. Make some noise. Be vocal about this bug, or be regretful when it kills any vestiges of excitement in high level matches. Your choice, I suppose.

@Original_Hater
 
If it's an easy fix no problem, if not, fuck it. It's a defensive mechanic that is universally excessable to everyone. It won't change the results of high level play, it might piss you off, but the best players will still own it.

Couldnt have said it any better myself. Not only that but this version of step g isnt nearly as evasive as the SC2 version so we should not all go jump of a bridge yet. It does not break the game in any sense. With that said, I dont think the creators of the game intended for this to be in the game so i do think they should fix it butttttt i have a feeling that they wont be able to do a "quick fix" for this any time soon. This looks like its imbedded pretty deeply in the games engine because there are so many different ways to step g. I still cant believe that with all of the drastic fundamental changes to the SC engine in this game that they didnt have at least a moderate beta testing by the top players of the world. Daishi might have bitten off a bit more than he could chew with all of these changes and its going to be interesting to see how he responds on twitter.
 
I don't see how fixing A/B/K~G would be hard. Usually when fakes are done, you let the move execute for quite a few frames, at least 5 or so, so that the movement is actually visible to the opponent and they see the fake. They can just make it so the move executes for a minimum number of frames before the cancel happens, so that if you tried to use the technique to step g you would just get attack ch.
 
jajaja why do you have to take things so serious? tranquilízate tipo, and no thanks i dont go to those tournaments i got other things to do, why would i want to become famous for playing a video game? this is what bothers me its not about having fun anymore, its about whos the best at playing a video game that was invented to have fun
Loco pero dime quien tu eres?,me tienes en intriga, and you are right about the video game thing im with you there.
 
It is an easy fix. Like people have been saying, just make it so that a move that cancels QS can't be cancelled with G immediately after a QS, or still allow it to be cancelled, just force it so that more of the A/B/K animation comes out.

This is similar to how NM can cancel a regular GS (236) into CE but can't cancel a GS out of transition (1A6, 33B6, etc.) into CE.
 
It is an easy fix. Like people have been saying, just make it so that a move that cancels QS can't be cancelled with G immediately after a QS, or still allow it to be cancelled, just force it so that more of the A/B/K animation comes out.

This is similar to how NM can cancel a regular GS (236) into CE but can't cancel a GS out of transition (1A6, 33B6, etc.) into CE.

If they can do this with NM, they can easily do this with Step. It really shouldn't be anymore complicated then the engine saying "User performed quick step, consider user in QS state. During QS state, don't allow [whatever]". If they can't figure out how to do that, they need new programmers.

I still don't think QS4G is anywhere near as bad as step-G, but I don't really want it around, either.
 
This isnt nearly as bad as SC2 step~G, but it can only hurt the game. Certain characters are going to suffer horribly because of this, and it has a big chance of completely changing the meta, which is just fundamentally wrong. I could care less about the game being more turtle-friendly, but more along the lines of characters being rendered almost useless because of their options being irrelevant because of this. This needs to go, along with the silly damage in this game, and the wacky hitboxes.

You know, one would think that extra attention would be paid to the step engine in this series, given how much of an impact step-related issues have had in the past.

Get this nonsense out of the game, namco.
 
Remember when everyone said fuzzy guarding was gonna kill the game? And then, like, nobody used it cause it was really shitty?

Yea.
 
Remember when everyone said fuzzy guarding was gonna kill the game? And then, like, nobody used it cause it was really shitty?

Yea.

Except when LinkRKC did it at key moments in the finals of Winter Brawl, and then the wind went out of your sails when you realized he wasn't making godlike reads, he was just no-selling the entire thing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3yK67oE6ANM#t=153s

Remember: We are only 3 weeks into release. There is already someone using fuzzy guard, how many people do you think are gonna be using QS4G at Final Round? My money is on a few specific people at least.

Don't mishandle the message either- All the credit in the world to LinkRKC for playing to win and using the tools he was given. My argument is, these things (QS4G and Fuzzy Guard) ought not to be a choice on the table at all. If they are, they will have a detrimental long term effect. I mean we only have 3 game cycles of evidence to fall back on.
 
Except when LinkRKC did it at key moments in the finals of Winter Brawl, and then the wind went out of your sails when you realized he wasn't making godlike reads, he was just no-selling the entire thing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3yK67oE6ANM#t=153s

Remember: We are only 3 weeks into release. There is already someone using fuzzy guard, how many people do you think are gonna be using QS4G at Final Round? My money is on a few specific people at least.

Don't mishandle the message either- All the credit in the world to LinkRKC for playing to win and using the tools he was given. My argument is, these things (QS4G and Fuzzy Guard) ought not to be a choice on the table at all. If they are, they will have a detrimental long term effect. I mean we only have 3 game cycles of evidence to fall back on.

This. You better believe I am gonna have this down by FR, no matter how much I dont like it. Its a shame, really...but I wont deny myself an effective tool if its able to be used.

I think some characters will be able to handle it fine, with proper use of frame adv and whatnot...some chars I feel will be crippled with this, and thats my main concern, that this will change the meta game to something a few characters cant compete in.
 
Fuzzy guard, just guard, and QS4G all need to be removed, or banned if they're not.

Players should also be ridiculed and traumatized for using these tactics, along with any other 1/3 life safe mid combos they might use.
 
On a personal note: Step-G and QS4G is a deal breaker for myself and most of my entire scene. I don't have the time or patience for another lackluster boring game that supports this kind of thing, and this has been a growing disappointment for 3 games now.

It comes down to this: Being teased with knowing how good SC can be without this kind of play, and then having to go back is too much to bear. I won't do that.
 
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Namco already has your money. Do you think they will spend it patching an obscure glitch tht may affect 1% of the playerbase?
 
I'm just curious why this wasn't discovered in the weeks prior to game release when some of the tournament players had copies of the game before anyone else did.

Just sayin'
 
Cmon, if it was discovered early, it would have been fixed before release date. PS would not willingly allow this to exist if they knew about it in advance
 
Except when LinkRKC did it at key moments in the finals of Winter Brawl, and then the wind went out of your sails when you realized he wasn't making godlike reads, he was just no-selling the entire thing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3yK67oE6ANM#t=153s

Remember: We are only 3 weeks into release. There is already someone using fuzzy guard, how many people do you think are gonna be using QS4G at Final Round? My money is on a few specific people at least.

Don't mishandle the message either- All the credit in the world to LinkRKC for playing to win and using the tools he was given. My argument is, these things (QS4G and Fuzzy Guard) ought not to be a choice on the table at all. If they are, they will have a detrimental long term effect. I mean we only have 3 game cycles of evidence to fall back on.

Fair enough point, although if he was only using it at key moments it is clearly not something you're going to want to be doing all the time. We know fuzzy guarding has weaknesses, and its not this overpowering tactic it was originally made out to be.

As for QS4G, does it have any weaknesses? Do we even know? Has anyone bothered to find out? If they have, are they even saying anything?

It seems to me that if you were bothering to use the easier abk+g method wouldn't that screw you over for throw breaks? Maybe not. I don't know, I can't even do the damn thing let alone test it for flaws.

When I can't even do something though, and i'm no noob, this makes me wonder just how how much its actually going to affect gameplay.

I'm not an advocate for step guard and I'm right there with you guys for getting it patched out, but we should start actively looking for ways to beat it instead of relying on namco alone to fix the issue. After all, they might not.
 
Except when LinkRKC did it at key moments in the finals of Winter Brawl, and then the wind went out of your sails when you realized he wasn't making godlike reads, he was just no-selling the entire thing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3yK67oE6ANM#t=153s

Remember: We are only 3 weeks into release. There is already someone using fuzzy guard, how many people do you think are gonna be using QS4G at Final Round? My money is on a few specific people at least.

Don't mishandle the message either- All the credit in the world to LinkRKC for playing to win and using the tools he was given. My argument is, these things (QS4G and Fuzzy Guard) ought not to be a choice on the table at all. If they are, they will have a detrimental long term effect. I mean we only have 3 game cycles of evidence to fall back on.

Wow! This makes so much sense now! I lost to LinkRKC in the first round at Winter Brawl. I was so pissed at my self for doing so terrible that I went back to my room and didn't even go back to play in the losers round. I just couldn't figure out how he was reading everything so well! I told my girl as we got back to the room that I've never seen someone able to read me so well and said that he was gonna win the tourney. Now I'm not saying that I would have won if he wasn't using QS4G but I know I would have had a least a better chance if I knew that existed FUCK QS4G!!!!!!!!!!!! I will definitely tweet Dashi.
 

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