Hate Speech: QS4G Is Basically Satan

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I have a confession to make. I’ve been breaking one of my own rules by refusing to share the existence of Quick Step~4G (hereafter known as QS4G or step guard) or any related tech, despite having known about it for a while. This wasn’t some pathetic attempt to maintain a marginal unfair advantage over everyone else, though. My previous silence is in fact due to the incredibly deleterious effect this sort of glitch is bound to have on high level play.

It’s no secret that I want SCV to get big and have a long competitive lifespan, and I think most everyone taking the time to read and participate here at 8wayrun share those desires, but, in addition to all of that, I want SCV to be good. Step guard in all its prior incarnations has always undermined SOULCALIBUR’s competitive depth, and that was within more conventional, passivity-friendly game systems.

SCV, with its focus on active decision-making and de-emphasis of low/mid mixups, is particularly vulnerable to serious damage if such a bug becomes an active and necessary component of high level matches. It wasn’t going to remain unknown forever, unfortunately, and now that its existence is becoming increasingly common knowledge throughout our community, we need to look at it objectively, consider its potential impact, and calmly but firmly begin rattling our sabers a little bit. We, as the community, are the first and arguably most important line of defense when it comes to ensuring that we have a clean, balanced, respectable game.

The Story Thus Far

SC veterans will no doubt have some degree of familiarity with step guard, but let’s give it a brief review for the sake of any newcomers. My own first encounter with it was its most egregious incarnation, that of SCII’s step~G. Essentially, all a player had to do was press and hold G immediately after initiating a sidestep. His character would then proceed to step normally, avoiding vertical attacks, while at the same time allowing for the immediate and automatic cancel of sidestep into a blocking state should his opponent elect to use a horizontal attack. The net result of this was that it was damn hard to hit people; defense wasn’t a particularly active or risky task because there was no real effective means to discourage lateral movement.

Naptime.jpg
Above: An audience getting hype for SC2 action!
SCIII and SCIV each had their own versions of step guard, and while neither was as infuriatingly mindless as that which plagued SCII, it certainly can’t be argued that it made those respective games better. SCIII and IV step guard bugs were input in precisely the same manner as that of SCII, but in both cases the initial sidestep ended up being somewhat abbreviated and the guarding didn’t actually kick in immediately, thus allowing for a small number of very fast horizontals to achieve a limited utility. Step guard therefore remained a crucial element of high level play, but it was less unassailable than before. Golly gee, it was like Christmas every day of the year.

All of this brings us to SCV, a game without any form of step guard previously seen in the series. In fact, for a bit, it seemed as though we were blessedly free of it, largely due to the way lateral movement works in the game. Any sidestep or quickstep can be canceled into attacks at any point, but there is a delay before guard can kick in, theoretically making a player vulnerable to horizontal attacks when attempting to sidestep verticals, which is great (as an aside, this property of canceling movement into moves is why, when sidestepping a vertical, it’s important to make sure the move has entirely whiffed before attempting to punish it, lest you cancel your step too early and move back into the path of your enemy’s attack). Unfortunately, however, a handful of game glitches undermine this system.

It’s possible to input 4G during a quickstep near the moment of impact for a horizontal attack, thereby canceling a quickstep into the warm, comforting embrace of blocking everything. Beyond QS4G, there exist a handful of other methods to employ step guard in SCV, perhaps the easiest of which being recently shared and explained by Belial in a post here on 8wayrun. That method, sidestep~A_B_Kg, is slightly easier to do and less evasive, but it still reliably kills certain mixups, as his video demonstrates.

For those of you too lazy to click the link above and open a whole new thread.

It sounds minor, or even almost good, doesn’t it? For one, it isn’t easy to pull off; QS4G requires nimble hands and incorporates a timing element, so it’s initially difficult to execute on a consistent basis. What’s more, damage in SCV is quite high, and there’s a guard meter, so having a technical defensive option like this is nice, particularly since over-reliance on it will just get you broken, right?

Wrong.

Step Guard is Dumb, and You’re Dumb For Liking It

Bugs, glitches, advanced tech, and other little “happy accidents” will necessarily fall into one of three categories:
  1. Those which enhance gameplay, such as the very first accidental combo in Street Fighter II.
  2. Those which are tolerable or otherwise benign, such as the Algol graphical chair glitch.
  3. Those which have a diminishing effect on a game through either drastically limiting play options or just breaking a game outright, such as QS4G.
Here’s the deal: fighting games are and always will be games of emergent complexity, and oftentimes unplanned for elements end up providing us with most of the fun and strategy, but step guard has never fallen into that category, nor does this new-fangled QS4G. What it does, essentially, is make virtually every horizontal move in the game near-useless. Previous SOULCALIBUR games could push through this and retain varying degrees of complexity for systemic reasons, as it was still possible to open up an opponent through strong use of low/mid mixups and the like. SCV, however, leans heavily on vulnerable step from a design perspective. For many characters, their most crucial, devastating tactics come from intelligent application of horizontal/vertical mixups rather than low/mid, and having a universal means of negating that is profoundly limiting. In fact, it’s probably not hyperbole to suggest that, fully incorporated into everyone’s game, QS4G will make high level play into extremely boring displays of reckless grabbing and repeated attempts to break guard, since those are the only semi-reliable means most characters possess to break down an invincible step.

Balance decisions within SCV absolutely hinge on the notion that there is no 100% safe way to move around the field of play. As we know, successfully sidestepping an opponent’s vertical attack usually yields massive rewards. This is why hitting a moving opponent grants CH properties, and it’s the entire rationale behind the existence of moves like Cervantes’ 3A+B, which is unsafe on block and on normal hit, but grants a significant chunk of damage to players who can sniff out a sidestep and reap its sweet counterhit rewards.

Fate-god-hates-you-turtle.jpg
Trust me, it only feels like this. WB had some pretty sweet turtling, to be honest.

That being the case, any argument that QS4G somehow enhances the game or makes it more technical is at best vacuous and at worst cravenly self-serving. I’m sure it’s tempting to come at this from the perspective of “I hate being CH all the time and I want to move safely, so I like this bug because it benefits me,” but that just reeks of victimhood. Rather than projecting yourself into the role of the player being out-thought, outplayed, and altogether beaten down, think about what something like this potentially does to your offensive options. Do you want your opponents consistently glitching their way to safety when you’ve made a correct read? I should hope not. More importantly, irrespective of whether this glitch is good for you as an individual, it’s bad for the overall health of our game, which is something we must jealously protect. As designed, SCV encourages a thoughtful, active, fun playstyle, and the advent of large scale step guarding materially threatens that.

What Is To Be Done?

So we’ve established that this glitch, despite being somewhat tricky to perform and despite any personal relief it might provide us against skilled opponents, is a Very Bad Thing, but where does that leave us? As I said, we’re the most important first line of defense against crap that threatens to make our game insipid, so the onus is on us to be proactive. The Internet, social media sites like Twitter and Facebook, and a general sense of engagement on Namco’s part combine with a professed commitment to patching to create an environment wherein our voices should in fact carry some weight. As such, we’d damn well better speak out.

To be clear, I’m not recommending histrionics or hyperbole here, but it is important that we use our available tools to make it known that we care about having a game that functions as intended. More than any discrete question of balance, issues like QS4G have system-wide negative effects, and we need to make sure that fixing bugs like this, fuzzy guard, and anything else that pops up remain always at the top of the priority list. So please, make some noise about this. Tweet @Daishi_Calibur, post on the Facebook group, post here. Be respectful, of course, and pretend to be reasonable, sane individuals for the duration of this, but nevertheless be vocal and firm. We should all want SCV to be successful and have a long, exciting competitive lifespan. Getting this stupid bug out of our game dramatically increases the odds of that happening.

Homework:

Get on it. Make some noise. Be vocal about this bug, or be regretful when it kills any vestiges of excitement in high level matches. Your choice, I suppose.

@Original_Hater
 
Whelp, on the plus side it means they won't be just guarding.

If you've got any highly guard damaging horizontals nows the time to abuse them.
 
QS4G~[G]~8 while mashing A or B. Yeah. How many more option selects can we squeeze in there?

PS: I bet this actually works.
 
idle, how insulting. just because he won, you throw out shit like that? if he were using fuzzy guard...

a: ivy would have jumped when ramon whiffed 1k just out of range. or, was that just him reading that ramon would be inches out of range and then not doing it anymore because he just knew...

b: he would not have been able to do 8b/9b, which he switched to instead of an empty jump when he realized that he couldn't get shit off of a clean jump...or, was that a new 9b fuzzy guard that he just hasn't showed us yet? omg!?!?

if, on the crazy small chance that you are right, he used fuzzy guard to jump over 1k and then 2a, how do you explain the 9b reads? how do you explain the absence of an empty jump when ramon whiffed 1k out of range? accusing him of "cheating" to belittle his skill after winning with a character everyone said was no good is flat out poor sport bullshit, and you know it.

i bet he has a button programmed to do SS on his stick as well.

damn cheater!
 
if, on the crazy small chance that you are right, he used fuzzy guard to jump over 1k and then 2a, how do you explain the 9b reads? how do you explain the absence of an empty jump when ramon whiffed 1k out of range? accusing him of "cheating" to belittle his skill after winning with a character everyone said was no good is flat out poor sport bullshit, and you know it.

I am right, because you don't understand how fuzzy guard works. It only works on hitbox clashes. No hitbox clash, no jump.

I didn't say "every low he jumped was because of fuzzy guard". I specifically linked to the part where it mattered. Nobody is trying to take his win away, or belittle it- I strongly advocate PTW. It's merely a high profile example to use, so I did.

Are you done acting like an outraged victim yet, or did you not read the entire last paragraph of my post?
 
QS4G isn't some get out of jail free card like step G was.

Let me quote myself replaying to another member.

so guys as you are already aware, they've found the existence of Step G in the form of Step~A+B+K~G or QS4G, so in the event that they won't get patched out, how would that affect NM's gameplay? would it contribute to his already impressive step? or would it make his horizontals near useless?
You play SC4, now imagine that except with a nerfed step G.

Let me give you a scenario. You can step the second hit of Mitsu's 66BB and punish with like 3B or something. The Mitsu player can read that and do 66B into 2A to interrupt your step punish. Will a NM player who QS4G step and be safe from 2A...as far as my tests go nope 2A still lands.

It takes about i13 to activate QS4G so I hear, what it majorly effects is giving a safe side step out of ringout positions.
 
Wow! This makes so much sense now! I lost to LinkRKC in the first round at Winter Brawl. I was so pissed at my self for doing so terrible that I went back to my room and didn't even go back to play in the losers round. I just couldn't figure out how he was reading everything so well! I told my girl as we got back to the room that I've never seen someone able to read me so well and said that he was gonna win the tourney. Now I'm not saying that I would have won if he wasn't using QS4G but I know I would have had a least a better chance if I knew that existed FUCK QS4G!!!!!!!!!!!! I will definitely tweet Dashi.
I didn't see Link use QS4G and I was looking hard for it.
 
Okay ... let me clear a couple things up. Idle, Lobo, you both are kind of right. I did use it to jump those two lows. However, those two jumps were honestly the only times I used it during that comeback. If that whiffed 1K was in range I would have lost the round. All the blocked mids before the jumped 1K and after the jumped 2A were not fuzzied. I don't use fuzzy guard much for the reason Lobo stated; empty jump usually gives you nothing. It's a stall tactic more than anything else.

I didn't use any form of StepG at Winter Brawl. I know I need to learn it though, because other people will use it and I'll need it to be able to compete. I make no apologies for playing to win. My only compromise is in character choice.
 
Okay ... let me clear a couple things up. Idle, Lobo, you both are kind of right. I did use it to jump those two lows. However, those two jumps were honestly the only times I used it during that comeback. If that whiffed 1K was in range I would have lost the round. All the blocked mids before the jumped 1K and after the jumped 2A were not fuzzied. I don't use fuzzy guard much for the reason Lobo stated; empty jump usually gives you nothing. It's a stall tactic more than anything else.

I didn't use any form of StepG at Winter Brawl. I know I need to learn it though, because other people will use it and I'll need it to be able to compete. I make no apologies for playing to win. My only compromise is in character choice.
I would have grabbed your ass, chipped you to death son.
 
Daishi hasnt responded yet lol, oh and why hasn't anybody extensively analyzed this and put it on youtube? From my testing not only does it have minor timing execution, but it takes a decent amount of frames for you to be able to do it. But i am curious to know the exact frame vulverability of QS4g. Though, from my minor testing i can conlude that this is not nearly as bad as sc2 step g. My 2 cents
 
Okay ... let me clear a couple things up. Idle, Lobo, you both are kind of right. I did use it to jump those two lows. However, those two jumps were honestly the only times I used it during that comeback. If that whiffed 1K was in range I would have lost the round. All the blocked mids before the jumped 1K and after the jumped 2A were not fuzzied. I don't use fuzzy guard much for the reason Lobo stated; empty jump usually gives you nothing. It's a stall tactic more than anything else.

I didn't use any form of StepG at Winter Brawl. I know I need to learn it though, because other people will use it and I'll need it to be able to compete. I make no apologies for playing to win. My only compromise is in character choice.
Ja you won because of that Cheater LOL, please people, this guy is pure skill, i know it since soul calibur 3, like king ace said a grab woud have done the job dont see the big deal.
 
Yeah Link is such a glitcher I can't believe he glitched his way to finals and glitched Ramon out of the tournament. That has to be the lamest thing I have ever seen, I hope this guy gets banned from ALL tournaments for using such cheap tactics. Also he only won because Ivy is obviously the best character in the game I mean come on she can turn her sword into a WHIP i mean really what is this wizard calibur or some shit?

I suggest the entire gaming community "fuzzyguard" this guy whenever he tries to talk to you. Don't let this type of behavior become the norm! Fight back against the "PRO" players who only win because they abuse cheap tactics and glitches. He may have taken your money this time but he lost his PRIDE as player in return.
 
I notice people missed the entire point of my post- which was to combat the notion that these things won't have an affect on play. I have to chalk that up to lobo being an alarmist crazy person.

My cited example was to show, yes, it does have an affect on play. Nowhere in my post did I imply Link didn't deserve to win, or was somehow a "cheater" for using it- merely that top players will adjust and use this, and again, it will have an impact, which I speculate in the long term will be negative.

Gotta love this forum sometimes.
 
I don't like Belials vid...it's very deceptive. I pretty much ignored what Hates posted because I have heard all this before so I missed the vid. But it has shit I take issue with.

The first test with Mitsu's 1B on hit into 4A. It bugs me that not only can I step 4A normally to Mitsu's left. But I can punch him out of the follow up 4A with NM's 6K even if 1B lands on CH. And hell NM's 99_33K ducks and steps both options.

But of course if the test was 1B on hit into 3A which is a much better option for step kill since it's faster and stuns giving mitsu more damage. Any version of Step G wouldn't work. Still stepping at disadvantage was stupid even with actual step G.

And the whole Omega pyrrha Stuff is Bullshit. I can freaking knock her out 236A. Not to mention to do 66B on block and to catch normal step with 236A you have to do it immediately or normal step and guard will defend it. Meaning, you have to be really looking for someone who steps after 66B. Not to mention backd ashing will destroy her 236A.

If you're going to complain about QS4G and make a hell of deal out of it, at least post actual scenarios where it completely kills options. It is by no means a true option select.
 
I never even knew QS4G existed. I won't bother learning it. I'd never want an unfair advantage. I want to win and lose because of skill/mind games/mixups.
 
I never even knew QS4G existed. I won't bother learning it. I'd never want an unfair advantage. I want to win and lose because of skill/mind games/mixups.
Blasphemy. You’re supposed to use everything, no matter how silly it is, and then claim you were playing to win. But what are you winning? Nobody’s really in it for the money. All that’s left is playing for pride and the respect won from the masses. But of course, most of them are all lying to themselves too if they think anything and everything is legit just because it’s part of the game. Basically, everybody sucks and I’m above them all for recognizing this. Hah.
 

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