Help

J

Jago

[08] Mercenary
Some people do these really fast save moves that I can't punish and guard crush a lot. Like there's this one that Yun Seong does where it's 2 hits and the last one is blue sparks and I can see it coming but can't do anything about it. I try to guard impact it but it only works 1% of the time. Even if I do GI people in that one out of million chance, they can block right after, is this normal?

And when I get people low on health they like to use throws a lot, or I'll get close and try to throw someone and they stop me before I can.

Then there's this other stuff where Seong Mina and Kilik do this unblockable thing where they go up in their air on their stick and come down and hit. I can't sidestep it or get out of the way or anything.

And how do you get past Algol's fireball things, I have tried thinking of so many ways but it's impossible....so if someone does it I'm just gonna stand there and guard until their fingers get tired until I find another way. I know you can GI it back if it's directly infront of you, but they shoot so many I can't really tell, and if I try to GI it, I still usually get hit. And theres this one where he'll go in the air and shoot a huge unblockable fireball and you can't do anything about it, can't sidestep it, run under it or anything. And his combos sure do a lot of damage....

BTW I'm using Mitsurugi online, I thought he was supposed to be fast, but even Astaroth is way faster and safer or so it'd seem.

I usually do good against people at first then I guess they figure out how I play and do all this stuff they know I don't know how to defend against (because they will do the same attacks repeatedly sometimes) where I can't beat them at all and I lose 20 rounds straight and it's really stressful and annoying. They'll keep attacking me (and some moves are just way too fast to react to) and all I can do is 2A when being pressured, which only works half the time and still puts me at a disadvantage. If I try to GI it usually fails and whiffs like they know. Sometimes when I attack people know just how to be a step away out of range of whatever move I do and counter it or are able to hit me before I hit them. I had been using moves with Mitsu I thought were safe like 6K, and 3A because I read the frame data but some can be punished for me it seems. It was getting on my nerves so I left after a while before I got too frustrated so I could cool off a bit since it's just a game.

PS - I'm not trying to sound scrubby or newbish complaining about all this....I know no move is impossible to counter against, I just don't know how....so that's why I ask for help.
 
Lol so that's why you signed off on me. Sorry about not playin' totally seriously against ya but I always try to have fun. You can find out specific weaknesses on the respective character forums but I'll address some of it for you since this is pretty much me you're talking about.

Yun: It's online play. Not bein' able to stop that 6BB GC was probably not your fault. I only did it a lot to you when your SG was red to see how you'd react. If u GI me and I blocked whatever u did in time that just means the move you did was too slow. AA the person and chip away or something quick.

Mina: You really can sidestep the 9A+B unblockable or guard crush. You just didn't. You stood there everytime. I was screwing around with it to see how people would react on wake-up and what not. Sidestep if you think the GC is coming or GI it. It'll be nothing once you get used to it.

Asta: After CH 6K you always teched. Don't do that. Up close he's worse off than any other range so pressure him and try ur best deal with his throws. That's the meat of his game.

Algol: He has easy openers into ridiculous damage combos but he's pretty darn unsafe. Punish me when you happen to block something even if you just BB me. I only used the UB bubble since I had bubbles all around you and I knew you weren't gonna move. That's why it worked. I haven't experimented with the move's properties but I doubt it's unsteppable. U did stop teching after 2A+K so great job. I suggest if he's using the bubblepalooza space control game just keep running forward at him and blocking them. He can't keep you away forever. Notice that I went for 1As when you stood there and blocked tho so watch for that.

You pretty much summed up what happened there. I'm used to how you play now so it's easier to do things I think will work. Doesn't mean you suck. Just means I've adapted and if you change it up a bit it'll be harder for me. I hate Mitsu but I have suggestions. Stop doing so much 66BB. You saw me start GIing the 2nd part. Figured u'd change it up. You even do it at long range so I sidestep and punish you. 2KB use is fine because that move is annoying. That alone gives you mixups up close. Make me guess wrong. I noticed you did mix it up more this time tho so props on that.

Next time we play I'll still be messing around with ya but hope you take my advice.
 
Is this a joke topic or are you being serious?
You can either bite the bullet, take the hit, roll out the way and then unleash or you could block it then side step right after - especially if they go for another 6BB. I guess.
 
Ok, thanks. I'm not mad at you or anything, if I got frustrated then that's my own fault, and you should always play seriously....use whatever works like that until I find a way around it because I wanna learn. That's another reason why I kinda left to rest a while....if I get stressed I won't play as good because I'll start using crappier patterns....and I try to stop when I notice that, sometimes it's easy to not think about what you're doing and lose focus. I'll mess with the moves you mentioned in training so I can see what to do against em. Any other things I should look out for?
 
Since I play a large portion of the cast that'd be a lot to get into. Read their forums if you're interested, go to training mode like u r now, play some matches against good people and it'll come with experience. Oh and don't tech so much. Sometimes lying there and taking grounded damage is better. Try to get a feel for when you think it'll be safe to tech and hope your opponent won't punish it.
 
Everything is safer online and your defensive options get sketchy because of the input lag... so it does get tougher to punish moves that people wouldn't bat an eye at offline.

But yeah, you're on the right track by heading into training mode. Once you get used to seeing the move, you'll eventually be able to react to it quickly enough to beat it online. Not as often as offline, unfortunately, but that's just a result of the netcode/input lag...

I dunno about Mitsu specifically (I have not played him since SC1...), but I find that moves with built-in evasive moves are a boon online. Try 4B (or whatever the input for his backstepping stab is) or moves with tech jump or tech crouch frames more often.

PS: We still need to play, Jago. Hopefully we can get something in this week...
 
Yes, thanks again everyone. Not sure how safe on block 4B is since the frame data doesn't say, I'd take a wild guess and say like 17, but I have no way of recording or anything. Ex I can get on in a couple mins after I eat and play if you want. I'll play you again tonight mikosu if you're still around after.
 
Jago said:
Some people do these really fast save moves that I can't punish and guard crush a lot. Like there's this one that Yun Seong does where it's 2 hits and the last one is blue sparks and I can see it coming but can't do anything about it. I try to guard impact it but it only works 1% of the time. Even if I do GI people in that one out of million chance, they can block right after, is this normal?
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Sounds like you were a victim of slight lag. Blocking Yun's 2 hit soul crushing move should allow you to hit back before Yun does the move again. BUT you need to be using a move that is faster and have input it in time. Lag can severely hinder you when a fast character is repeatedly mashing a move in your face. The other option is to take the hit and roll out of there when you hit the floor. Or as you mentioned guard impact, if you feel confident of getting it. I've been on the receiving end of Yun's who mash this move. Just block and return fire with your fastest move, or block and throw, or block and GI, or allow the hit and roll.

And when I get people low on health they like to use throws a lot, or I'll get close and try to throw someone and they stop me before I can.
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You'll get better at throwing with experience. What works for me is to train the opponent to expect an attack in certain circumstances. And then suddenly throw where every time before I'd previously done an attack. If you attempt throws very predictably, good opponents will duck, interrupt or break your throw every time. Remember to mix up your throws too, using B+G will be broken less than A+G.


Then there's this other stuff where Seong Mina and Kilik do this unblockable thing where they go up in their air on their stick and come down and hit. I can't sidestep it or get out of the way or anything.
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It is actually possible to sidestep these moves. But you have to get the timing right. Some characters can actually knock Mina and Kilik out of the air as they rise on their staff. And at least one character can throw them while they rise. Also, if they are doing the unblockable predictably, just hang back out of range when you know they are going to do it, and punish them as they land.


And how do you get past Algol's fireball things, I have tried thinking of so many ways but it's impossible....so if someone does it I'm just gonna stand there and guard until their fingers get tired until I find another way. I know you can GI it back if it's directly infront of you, but they shoot so many I can't really tell, and if I try to GI it, I still usually get hit. And theres this one where he'll go in the air and shoot a huge unblockable fireball and you can't do anything about it, can't sidestep it, run under it or anything. And his combos sure do a lot of damage....
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As you say, you can GI the balls that come right at you. Also you can constantly sidestep the straight balls. If Algol shoots the diagonal two balls, that's your opportunity to move in. Or if you GI a straight one, that is also your opportunity to move in if the Algol is forced to block, GI or sidestep it.

If your character has a long distance leaping attack, then you can use it to get close when he does the diagonals. Or if you have a teleport, use that. Algol can be very dangerous up close, so you need to be aware of his moves and when you can safely attack. Which you can only learn through experience.


PS - I'm not trying to sound scrubby or newbish complaining about all this....I know no move is impossible to counter against, I just don't know how....so that's why I ask for help.
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Don't lose heart. SCIV online isn't a true reflection of the game, or even a true reflection of your skill. If you were playing offline, people wouldn't be able to get away with some of the move-spam crap they get away with online - and you'd be able to block or attack when you are supposed to be able to.

Of course you can maximise your chances by playing better. But the only way to get better is to play people who are better than you. AND also to play people who spam cheap crap, cus you need to know these things because they are common tricks.

With all fighting games I believe you are climbing a mountain. And about 3/4 up the mountain is a layer of cloud. For most of the time you are learning the game, you are below the cloud and can't see the whole mountain. Only through perseverence do you eventually make it through the cloud and reach the mountain peak, and only then can you fully appreciate it's true height as you observe the surrounding valleys and the mountain below. You are still on the way to the mountain top. Don't stop climbing.
 
like CHIP_STAXMAN said, u can retaliate back after a blocked 6BB. like astaroth can 6K him and should be out an options he does. and if he does 1K,K, hit or block, you have advantage too. with sieg i can get 3B.
 
Oh, 6BB always looked like it put you in block stun and I was afraid to attack blocking.
 
Everything puts you in block stun. 66BB actually puts you into a tech crouch so you can buffer a WR move out of it, iirc. 66BB is so punishable you can actually 66BB someone back after blocking it >___>

Mitsu needs but two things: 2KB, and Mids :P How often do you use interrupts? Just because AA and 2A are super simple moves they are still an important utility for any character.

BTW, in the future please be more descriptive with the thread title. "Help" doesn't really tell us anything about what you're asking.
 
Jago said:
Oh, 6BB always looked like it put you in block stun and I was afraid to attack blocking.
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heh, thought the same thing, till i tried to see what i can do. most peoples guard break doesn't really give them advantage. i think mitsu's 1a,b doesn't really give him much advantage too. i think i beat it with astaroths 6k.
 
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